Kwik Way store and clerks charged in accident that killed three...

The company that owns the Kwik Way Food Mart in Muskegon and three store clerks will face charges for their role in selling alcohol to underage teens killed in a fatal accident in December.

[TOM]

And now the truth comes out. This store had a proven track record of selling to minors. A couple of weeks ago I was chastised by some for saying that this store should lose its liquor license. For those of you that didn't know the facts and thought I was wrong...ENJOY YOUR HUMBLE PIE!!

[emmie]

Tom, i'll second that, i argued with so many people on this forum (many who were not even from the area) that this store has no past... really if you've been around the area long you know the store's reputation!

[Ditto]

I totally agreed with you. I used to work at a convenience store that sold alcohol. I know the laws. I knew that if the owners of this store knowingly sold the alcohol to these kids, then they would lose big time.

It's just too bad that three young men had to die before something was done.

[Mi is a dead end]

What else is there to do in Muskegon? i would deink too if I had to live in that ra t hole

[Miss Meow]

That's it - I'm taking Breyers to court for selling me the ice cream that made me fat. It's not my fault.
Once again - personal responsibility.

[Take your medicine]

TOM wrote:

And now the truth comes out. This store had a proven track record of selling to minors. A couple of weeks ago I was chastised by some for saying that this store should lose its liquor license. For those of you that didn't know the facts and thought I was wrong...ENJOY YOUR HUMBLE PIE!!

Great work Tom, you can print this off and hang this on your fridge and show friends and family your esteemed accomplishment. I WAS one who said to reserve judgement and even said not to lose the license if there was no proof of wrongdoing. However, after seeing all the evidence (rather than rushing to judgement, as super sleuth Tom did) I absolutely think these people should be punished. However, I still think the bottomline is that people should not lose sight of the bigger problem and that's the personal responsibility aspect. This store didn't force the kids to buy liquor, sure they made it ALOT easier, but the boys still ultimately chose to drink, smoke pot, and then get in the car/drive after being HEAVILY intoxicated. It's a tragedy that should have never happened.

One final note, I find it incredibly troubling the story includes this note: "Tague also says, since September of 2004 when the store got its liquor license, investigators found a pattern of selling alcohol to minors." So investigators knew about this for over 3 years and didn't do anything? That's really troubling to me.

[TOM]

Miss Meow....yes, it is personal responsibility.

The store had a history of selling to minors (well documented with the police). The owner(s) of this store were legally liable and obligated to properly train their employees on the law when it comes to alcohol sales. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.
The employees that sold the alcohol to the minors were charged with a crime (and rightfully so). Unfortunately, due to past, well documented instances...this store should lose its license to sell alcohol. There are a lot of other responsible businesses/owners with these same type of establishments that abide by the law and train their employees to do the same. Just because this store may lose its liquor license doesn't mean that it will go out of business.

[TOM]

Take your medicine wrote:

<quoted text>
Great work Tom, you can print this off and hang this on your fridge and show friends and family your esteemed accomplishment. I WAS one who said to reserve judgement and even said not to lose the license if there was no proof of wrongdoing. However, after seeing all the evidence (rather than rushing to judgement, as super sleuth Tom did) I absolutely think these people should be punished. However, I still think the bottomline is that people should not lose sight of the bigger problem and that's the personal responsibility aspect. This store didn't force the kids to buy liquor, sure they made it ALOT easier, but the boys still ultimately chose to drink, smoke pot, and then get in the car/drive after being HEAVILY intoxicated. It's a tragedy that should have never happened.
One final note, I find it incredibly troubling the story includes this note: "Tague also says, since September of 2004 when the store got its liquor license, investigators found a pattern of selling alcohol to minors." So investigators knew about this for over 3 years and didn't do anything? That's really troubling to me.

Thanks for the compliment medicine man. I'm glad you think I'm a super sleuth. I'm glad you think that I was quick to rush to judgement....perhaps if you would have read what I wrote 3-4 weeks ago you wouldn't find the need for sarcasm. I never advocated for the store to lose its liquor license...only that it should be considered for the fact. Responsible business?...hardly. Enjoy leading a sarcastic life....must be great.

[Jack]

Mi is a dead end wrote:

What else is there to do in Muskegon? i would deink too if I had to live in that ra t hole

Drink up pal, just don't drive after you have had a few!

[Randy Whitten]

Quote: Tague also says, since September of 2004 when the store got its liquor license, investigators found a pattern of selling alcohol to minors.

And why did this store have alcohol to sell if known there was a problem?

Who will charge the law for knowing and letting them continue to sell?

[gwyn]

Mi is a dead end wrote:

What else is there to do in Muskegon? i would deink too if I had to live in that ra t hole

We just moved to the area a year ago and are tickled. So in answer to your question, lets see:
Michigan's Adventure
Duck Lake
Lake Michigan
Frauenthal has lots of stuff going on
LC Walker has lots of stuff going on
Join the YMCA - you can swim, play basketball, take karate, lift weights, get rid of your agression in a positive way!
In the summer there is a concert or two every weekend at the parks
Go skiing, cross country ski, ice skating, sledding - we had an awesome winter for that
Whitehall & Montague have stuff going on almost every weekend
Need more ideas? I've only just begun.

Regarding the store, I'm glad they are getting charged, it is too bad it didn't happen sooner, hopefully this will send a message not only to other stores but to those who buy for minors who can't buy in the store.

[Miss Meow]

TOM wrote:

Miss Meow....yes, it is personal responsibility.
The store had a history of selling to minors (well documented with the police). The owner(s) of this store were legally liable and obligated to properly train their employees on the law when it comes to alcohol sales. Ignorance of the law is not a valid defense.
The employees that sold the alcohol to the minors were charged with a crime (and rightfully so). Unfortunately, due to past, well documented instances...this store should lose its license to sell alcohol. There are a lot of other responsible businesses/owners with these same type of establishments that abide by the law and train their employees to do the same. Just because this store may lose its liquor license doesn't mean that it will go out of business.

Michigan should change the drinking age to 18 - if they're old enough to vote, and to go to war, they are old enough to make their own decisions about drinking.

[Muskegonman]

I think we should make a law everytime somebody does something dumb just so the rest of us can try to determine if we truely live in a free country or dictatorship. Kids that fall off bikes without a helmet we should make a law to send parents to jail. What about making a law because I fell off a ladder. Sue the company and make a law to require two people to use at all times. When will it end? I'm afraid now to walk across the street to my mail box because I might break another stupid law to protect the stupid ..

[TOM]

Miss Meow wrote:

<quoted text>
Michigan should change the drinking age to 18 - if they're old enough to vote, and to go to war, they are old enough to make their own decisions about drinking.

I'm old enough to vote, legally drink...and have been to war (did 16 months in Iraq and was wounded by a roadside bomb). Using this theory, then the entire nation should have a drinking age of 18 because military members come from all over the nation. BAD IDEA!!
Do I think those kids were responsible for their actions...ABSOLUTELY (the survivor got sent to prison...where he should be). Unfortunately, it's not just underage drivers that choose to drink and drive, it runs the full spectrum of society.

[Miss Meow]

[QUOTE/] Using this theory, then the entire nation should have a drinking age of 18 because military members come from all over the nation. BAD IDEA!!
Do I think those kids were responsible for their actions...ABSOLUTELY (the survivor got sent to prison...where he should be). Unfortunately, it's not just underage drivers that choose to drink and drive, it runs the full spectrum of society.[/QUOTE]
This is true - then why should it matter - 18 or 21. Doesn't the whole forbidden fruit thing make drinking all that more enticing and exciting?

[Redbaron]

Mi is a dead end wrote:

What else is there to do in Muskegon? i would deink too if I had to live in that ra t hole

TROLL Alert, shut-up loser. I grew up in this city, and never once been intoxicated. Tell me there isn't nothing to do, and you aren't trying very hard.

[Greg]

Miss Meow wrote:

That's it - I'm taking Breyers to court for selling me the ice cream that made me fat. It's not my fault.
Once again - personal responsibility.

personal responsibility is dead, the liberals murdered it.

[Deb]

Hmmm.. I still say personal responsibility. I doubt this was the first time these kids drank ... and the parents didn't know this? Doubt it.

[TOM]

Miss Meow wrote:

<quoted text>
This is true - then why should it matter - 18 or 21. Doesn't the whole forbidden fruit thing make drinking all that more enticing and exciting?

18 OR 21...Here's why I think it should be 21.
At 18 a lot more kids (in high school/college) will have access to alcohol. Do they have it now...wholeheartedly yes. If they want it bad enough, they can get it.
Forbidden fruit...it comes down to willpower. I want more money, but you don't find me going out to rob a bank.
I do think the parents of all those boys (including the dead ones) may not have instilled enough parenting skills about the alcohol/drugs (don't know for sure..just guessing here).

[Mama-Sita]

Miss Meow wrote:

That's it - I'm taking Breyers to court for selling me the ice cream that made me fat. It's not my fault.
Once again - personal responsibility.

Gee, that's just a little bit different. Those clerks broke the law by not asking for ID. Anyone that works selling or serving alcohol should know better. Three people are dead. And unless you eat so much ice cream that you're going to take 3 young lives, that was a weak comparison.