Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#83 Mar 12, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
I think what he's saying is they AREN'T following Christ's teachings.
And from the posts for the right-wing "Christians" on here I tend to agree.
Not that I agree with Wiggley's perceptions of [a] God but more people have been killed, abused, imprisoned, harassed, demeaned and diminished in the name of God than by any other reasoning.
It might be interesting to SEE those preaching the most Christianity practicing the most Christianity...without using the 'we are all sinners' and 'we all are imperfect' as an excuse not to.
Just to be accurate here, more people have been killed in the name of atheism (Stalin, Mao, et al) than by all religions combined throughout history. I would go so far as to say that more people died under atheism in one year than all religions combined throughout history. Atheism will kill hundreds of thousands this year, far more than Christians, Muslims, etc will kill for religious versus political reasons.

Also, using religion as an excuse to do something doesn't mean the religion actually condones or encourages it. Lots of folks use the "God told me to" in order to justify affairs. Doesn't mean that religion encourages affairs.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#84 Mar 12, 2013
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
The same can be said for those that equate disagreement with progressive ideology with hatred, anger and racism.
I totally get the atheist's comment regarding Christian hypocrisy, especially on this site where everyone seems to have gotten caught up in the personal insults and nastiness. I suppose most Christians who practice what they preach simply avoid sites like this one. The rest struggle, and some just choose to fight non-believers on their playing field using the same tactics.
As much as atheists don't want to hear it, or refuse to accept it as a reason, Christians are no more perfect than anyone else, and in many cases struggle more than most in trying to live as God wants them to. As such, they're as guilty of hypocrisy as anyone. I don't think you'll find too many Christians who wouldn't admit that they fail to live up to God's lofty expectations. Add to that the people who perform actions under the name of Christianity or religion that are anything but God-like.
I guess that makes Christians easier targets than those who have no moral compass to be held to aside from man's imperfect example.
You weren't doing too bad until you typed the last sentence.
You degrade and insult the Human Race by implying there are no Morals and Ethics outside of your religion. You make yourself a target by adding the tenants of the christian religion as absolute. If what you say were true there would be total chaos everywhere and that's not the case. Humans can and have through out History, been able to co-exist without religion as their Moral guide.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#85 Mar 12, 2013
Jess Wundrin wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh my mistake. I apologize. I am soooo dumb! Forgive me.
I did not say you are dumb...I just hope you might gain something from this conversation.
No persecution points for you either...

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#86 Mar 12, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to be accurate here, more people have been killed in the name of atheism (Stalin, Mao, et al) than by all religions combined throughout history. I would go so far as to say that more people died under atheism in one year than all religions combined throughout history. Atheism will kill hundreds of thousands this year, far more than Christians, Muslims, etc will kill for religious versus political reasons.
Also, using religion as an excuse to do something doesn't mean the religion actually condones or encourages it. Lots of folks use the "God told me to" in order to justify affairs. Doesn't mean that religion encourages affairs.
Ahhhh yes...the arguement that anyone who does not believe in the same god-being as you is an Atheist.
Nice try...but a total Failure...

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#87 Mar 12, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to be accurate here, more people have been killed in the name of atheism (Stalin, Mao, et al) than by all religions combined throughout history. I would go so far as to say that more people died under atheism in one year than all religions combined throughout history. Atheism will kill hundreds of thousands this year, far more than Christians, Muslims, etc will kill for religious versus political reasons.
Also, using religion as an excuse to do something doesn't mean the religion actually condones or encourages it. Lots of folks use the "God told me to" in order to justify affairs. Doesn't mean that religion encourages affairs.
And another thought regarding your last paragraph.
Does the mainstream fo christianity condone what the westboro baptists do? Does the mainstream of christianity condone what Harold Camping or Jim Jones did?
I'm thinking your answer will be no...but unfortunately for you they did those things under the umbrella of christianity. They are not Atheists just because they did something you and I don't agree with...you can't wash away the reality quite that easily.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#88 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
You weren't doing too bad until you typed the last sentence.
You degrade and insult the Human Race by implying there are no Morals and Ethics outside of your religion. You make yourself a target by adding the tenants of the christian religion as absolute. If what you say were true there would be total chaos everywhere and that's not the case. Humans can and have through out History, been able to co-exist without religion as their Moral guide.
LOL ... thanks for your critique. I didn't write it for your approval. It just is what it is. You can take from it whatever you want. I'm not arguing religion with an atheist. What's the point?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#89 Mar 12, 2013
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL ... thanks for your critique. I didn't write it for your approval. It just is what it is. You can take from it whatever you want. I'm not arguing religion with an atheist. What's the point?
Your implication that there are no Human Morals outside of your religious beliefs requires correction and most certainly is an arguement regarding religion.
Try to keep up...
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plymouth, MI

#90 Mar 12, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
Oh, and another point: Because someone hears "a being" in their head does not make it God speaking to them. Evil also speaks to people's minds.
Wait! If there is no God then how can there be evil??
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#91 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Your implication that there are no Human Morals outside of your religious beliefs requires correction and most certainly is an arguement regarding religion.
Try to keep up...
Requires correction? Who the hell are you?

Not that I have to do this but just because you are so in need of a correcting yourself I will.

This is what I wrote:

"I guess that makes Christians easier targets than those who have no moral compass to be held to aside from man's imperfect example."

"NO MORAL COMPASS ASIDE FROM MAN'S IMPERFECT EXAMPLE".

Man's imperfect example of a moral compass.

Man's moral compass.

I think the wording I chose confused you. That or you only read what you want to hear. Either away, I don't give a philistine's sandy butt what you think about my opinion and don't ever come after me again as though I'm obligated to justify my statements to someone who's name sounds like a obscene cartoon character.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#92 Mar 12, 2013
Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
Requires correction? Who the hell are you?
Not that I have to do this but just because you are so in need of a correcting yourself I will.
This is what I wrote:
"I guess that makes Christians easier targets than those who have no moral compass to be held to aside from man's imperfect example."
"NO MORAL COMPASS ASIDE FROM MAN'S IMPERFECT EXAMPLE".
Man's imperfect example of a moral compass.
Man's moral compass.
I think the wording I chose confused you. That or you only read what you want to hear. Either away, I don't give a philistine's sandy butt what you think about my opinion and don't ever come after me again as though I'm obligated to justify my statements to someone who's name sounds like a obscene cartoon character.
The "moral compass" you refer to was in place long before your religion came along...deal with it.
I didn't "come after you" at all...you approached me with your incorrect concept of some man's imperfect example of a moral compass which is nothing more than a christian religious lie regarding Humans who are not naturally or inherently immoral.

Are you having fun yet?? Spinning in circles can make you dizzy.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#93 Mar 12, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Wait! If there is no God then how can there be evil??
Sheeesh Batch...
There are and always have been evil people. The "evil" designation does not require a god-being.
Murder is evil, stealing is evil, no god-being required.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#94 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Ahhhh yes...the arguement that anyone who does not believe in the same god-being as you is an Atheist.
Nice try...but a total Failure...
Nope, never said that non-Christian religions were or are atheistic. Islam in monotheistic. Many religions like Hinduism believe in a lot of gods. So no, the one who failed is yourself.

Yours wasn't even a nice try or a good try.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#95 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
The "moral compass" you refer to was in place long before your religion came along...deal with it.
I didn't "come after you" at all...you approached me with your incorrect concept of some man's imperfect example of a moral compass which is nothing more than a christian religious lie regarding Humans who are not naturally or inherently immoral.
Are you having fun yet?? Spinning in circles can make you dizzy.
No, dealing with an overly-sensitive arguer isn't fun. I stated an opinion and it obviously spun your shorts in a twist. That's your problem not mine and I'm not ignorant enough to get caught in an argument about religion with an atheist. There's virtually no value in it to me.

Good day.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#96 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
And another thought regarding your last paragraph.
Does the mainstream fo christianity condone what the westboro baptists do? Does the mainstream of christianity condone what Harold Camping or Jim Jones did?
I'm thinking your answer will be no...but unfortunately for you they did those things under the umbrella of christianity. They are not Atheists just because they did something you and I don't agree with...you can't wash away the reality quite that easily.
They aren't Christian nor are they atheist. Christians, Muslims and Hindu's don't have the same religious beliefs nor are all religions monotheistic. You can believe in Zeus, and the ancient pantheon of gods. That doesn't make you an atheist.

If you don't even understand what an atheist believes, and based on your posts it seems that you don't, why should anyone give any credence to your opinion?

Less than 2% of folks in the US are atheist. Throughout history it is a belief that has never gained much support nor credibility with a large percentage of the people anywhere. Heck, the National Atheist Organization had to cancel their annual convention last October because they couldn't get 200 people to attend. Meanwhile 40,000+ college students attend Louie Giglio's Passion conference each year.

Atheism is a belief with no legs, no logic and few followers. Not a great slogan for a group.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#97 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheeesh Batch...
There are and always have been evil people. The "evil" designation does not require a god-being.
Murder is evil, stealing is evil, no god-being required.
But from an athiestic point of view, why is it evil? Why is stealing "evil"? Why would it be wrong of me to beat the tar out of someone and take their stuff? If your answer is because society says it is wrong, then if society says that killing blacks is ok, then that makes it ok?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#98 Mar 12, 2013
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Wait! If there is no God then how can there be evil??
When did I say there is no God? I don't though believe God is this long white bearded Being sitting on some cloud.

Do your thoughts exist? Does your consciousness exist? By exist I mean do they have material being? Unless you know something I don't you can't reach out and touch your thoughts and/or consciousness.
None-the-less they result in how you exist. So in that sense they exist when you put them into action. They are good or evil in their action(s).

Good and evil are not dependent on a specific religious faith base.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plymouth, MI

#99 Mar 12, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Sheeesh Batch...
There are and always have been evil people. The "evil" designation does not require a god-being.
Murder is evil, stealing is evil, no god-being required.
Wait! Didn't Moses come down from Mount Sinai with the Ten Commandments from God? Why would Murder be evil today.... Why would Stealing be evil.... Angels exist don't they? Lucifer was one and was evil too or did Moses bang his head...... Did Lucifer come before or after the Old Testament/Torah...... How can such a small country as Israel survive a six day war with all the neighbors against them....... How can the US come from nothing to a power house in the world with more advancements and productivity than any other society in man's history....... Founders believed in God too...... Devine intervention for good..... Progressives only leach off the good...... Show us where people followed your doctrine and succeeded as a country with 350 million people.......
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plymouth, MI

#100 Mar 12, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I say there is no God? I don't though believe God is this long white bearded Being sitting on some cloud.
Do your thoughts exist? Does your consciousness exist? By exist I mean do they have material being? Unless you know something I don't you can't reach out and touch your thoughts and/or consciousness.
None-the-less they result in how you exist. So in that sense they exist when you put them into action. They are good or evil in their action(s).
Good and evil are not dependent on a specific religious faith base.
Yet, humans raised in the "Lord of the Flies" have no concept of good and evil but rather what is..... Laws or Rules do have a place in the development of human behavior. Religion did that even when imperfect when run by man...... The base started in the Judeo-Christian belief and all laws of successful societies created after that came to be......
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Plymouth, MI

#101 Mar 12, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
When did I say there is no God? I don't though believe God is this long white bearded Being sitting on some cloud.
Do your thoughts exist? Does your consciousness exist? By exist I mean do they have material being? Unless you know something I don't you can't reach out and touch your thoughts and/or consciousness.
None-the-less they result in how you exist. So in that sense they exist when you put them into action. They are good or evil in their action(s).
Good and evil are not dependent on a specific religious faith base.
Ghengis Khan had his own rules. I believe it as he who sent an emissary to Persia with gifts to the Sultan.... Sultan beheaded the emissary and sent it back to Khan..... Khan sent another with gifts and the same result happened.... Khan then sacked Persia and every village in it. Beheaded every man woman and child they found...... Persia, an advanced society with science and math, never recovered to this day...... Today it is called Iran.....
Thor

Rockford, MI

#102 Mar 12, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to be accurate here, more people have been killed in the name of atheism (Stalin, Mao, et al) than by all religions combined throughout history. I would go so far as to say that more people died under atheism in one year than all religions combined throughout history. Atheism will kill hundreds of thousands this year, far more than Christians, Muslims, etc will kill for religious versus political reasons.
Also, using religion as an excuse to do something doesn't mean the religion actually condones or encourages it. Lots of folks use the "God told me to" in order to justify affairs. Doesn't mean that religion encourages affairs.
This is patently false.

Religion has slaughtered over 800 million people, and every year that number only goes up.
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview...

Most of the deaths attributed to Mao and Stalin were due to famine, and not by executions or otherwise ordered kiIIings, direct or indirect. Even if the argument can be made that Stalin engineered the famine during his time, the famine under Mao was not deliberately engineered. China had recorded droughts and floods and adverse weather for those famine years.

Even if you count the famine deaths under Stalin, these two still don't have 1% of the death toll of religion.

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