SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#225 Mar 18, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand what you are saying. There are many folks who don't consider Catholics to be Christians (I'm not one). But to open the definition up to anyone who simply believes that Jesus is the Son of God opens it up to Satan and demons who know that Jesus is the Son of God.
I don't get caught up in the tertiary issues, but denying the Trinity and advocating polytheism pretty much nullifies any claim to be a Christian. And I don't think I'm the one out of step. If Mormanism was simply another form of Christianity why was his religion such a big part of the conversation on the right? Don't ever remember anyone talking about Reagan being a Presbyterian or Nixon being a Quaker.
I think a lot of folks who are Mormans don't really know the spritual foundations of their church, nor do many non-Mormans really know what the LDS teach. Another challenge is that what the church teaches can be at odds with its foundational beliefs. And by church I'm including every major faith.
I don't know what you mean by the Trinity. If meaning Jesus was God incarnate there is nowhere in the Bible that points to God taking on human form in the body of Jesus.

Thorough study points out Jesus saying many times to not pray to Him but to the Father. One specific example is in Jesus speaking to the Jews;
John 5:37  And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38  And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39  Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40  And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.
41  I receive not honour from men.
42  But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.
43  I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

If they had never seen God's shape nor heard His voice at any time how could Jesus be God while they were looking at Jesus and hearing Jesus' voice.

According to the text Jesus was not God and not simply a prophet. Beyond a prophet. Yet not God.

And while you never heard of anyone talking about Reagan being a Presbyterian or Nixon being a Quaker they sure did about Kennedy being a Catholic.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

#226 Mar 18, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
So as the master researcher you should know they didn't give a tinker's toot about us then either. They didn't care if the United States was a valid country or not. "Validity" has always hinged on religious continuity.
As usual you missed the point.
Didn't miss the point. As usual, you ignored the point. It didn't agree with your "view" after all.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#227 Mar 18, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
According to the text Jesus was not God and not simply a prophet. Beyond a prophet. Yet not God.
"Before Abraham was, I am". Jesus said that. Since you claim to be such as Bible scholar, explain to the class what Jesus meant by that and why the Jewish leadership wanted to stone him to death for saying it as well as the following:

"If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"
"I and the Father are one"

"I am the way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the Father but through me"
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#228 Mar 18, 2013
SeenItBefore wrote:
I If meaning Jesus was God incarnate there is nowhere in the Bible that points to God taking on human form in the body of Jesus.
Really? Your Bible must be missing some pages.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.....The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 1: 1-14

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#229 Mar 18, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell that to Mr. Wiggley...they seem to think that simply calling yourself a Christian or saying you are one makes you one no matter how much your actions don't line up with your words.
That is not what I said nor is it what I implicated. You expose yourself as needing to lie in order to reinforce and win your impossible arguement. Your version of what a christian is apparently varies beyond your capability to comprehend.
Why don't you try to make it easy for me and define what a christian is? Remember and realize, I'm going to ask other christians to verify your conclusions.

Once done, and you have convinced me that your version is the one and only version of the correct christian, we'll discuss the guarantee from your god-being that following you was the right choice...kinda like Harold Camping or Jim Jones or a host of others.

Good luck...
pipedream

Grand Blanc, MI

#230 Mar 18, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Your Bible must be missing some pages.
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.....The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth."
John 1: 1-14
Since you put yourself out there as this wowie wow all righteous Christian (Mr. Right) then why are you such a douchebag in real life? Its not possible to be both is it? Hypocrite much?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#231 Mar 18, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
"Before Abraham was, I am". Jesus said that. Since you claim to be such as Bible scholar, explain to the class what Jesus meant by that and why the Jewish leadership wanted to stone him to death for saying it as well as the following:
"If you have seen me, you have seen the Father"
"I and the Father are one"
"I am the way, the truth and the life. Noone comes to the Father but through me"
If you don't want to have anything other than a pithing match over this I have no desire to get into it in any depth.

The Jews wanted to stone Jesus because they believed that's what he was saying. But then again there is much they misunderstood about what he said. Just like they believed when the Messiah came there would be a physical battle and there was not. Jesus didn't start a battle of weapons so he wasn't the Messiah.

To this day the discord between scholars of all nature continues so there is no answer of differing definition everyone is going to agree on.

I am aware of your arguments and could explain them but as I've said before this is one of those subjects that is far too in-depth to get into here. So believe as you need to. It makes no difference to me.

Matthew 10:11  And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12  And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13  And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14  And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15  Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.
Thor

Rockford, MI

#232 Mar 18, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you've got things a little backwards. In the first article it says "During the ceremony of betrothal, the girl's future husband poured perfume on her head and brought her presents and provisions. After the wedding, where the couple would live remained the sole issue."
Who do you think oversaw the ceremony?
Probably a local chieftain or someone appointed by him.

It wasn't religion based.
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Going back a bit, part of the difference is how one defines "marriage." Again, referencing your article it talks about how the future husband and the girls father came to terms regarding payments. She had no say. Was that a marriage or slavery? Again, according to your article if the man died she could not leave the family but now had to marry a brother or other relative.
To me, that sounds like slavery that was given an offical name to make it sound ok.
So lets get some agreement on terms. First one is obviously how do you define marriage?
Not surprised you would resort to the no-true-scotsman fallacy, since your claim that marriage started as a religious contract was completely debunked.
Thor

Rockford, MI

#233 Mar 18, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll just address the last point. If homosexual marriage is ok'd then our society has said that morality is defined either by the government or a majority vote.
Moral relativism hurts everyone; the individual and the group.
Morality is a construct of man. Always has been, always will be.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#234 Mar 19, 2013
I watched a little more of The Bible. Not much there.
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#235 Mar 19, 2013
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? Your Bible must be missing some pages.
Your's too..... Hundreds and perhaps thousands of them!

Biblical scholars have found proof of approximately 500 books written as part of the original bible. The human god-being Constantine cherry picked a mere 80 of them for his bible launching the Catholic Church, and the protestants pruned it down further to fit King Jame's needs.

All current churchs and the bibles they adhere to are the works of man and don't come close to the supposed "whole story" as it was written.

This is the best part of this entire my religion is the most pure one argument. Name any other book missing 80% of its chapters capable of such foolish belief in it.
Barb

Hudsonville, MI

#236 Mar 19, 2013
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
I watched a little more of The Bible. Not much there.
It was probably too deep for you. Try reading the book.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#237 Mar 19, 2013
Barb wrote:
<quoted text>
It was probably too deep for you. Try reading the book.
First I must reiterate I am a Christian. Though I do disagree with what many doctrines teach.

The Bible is not a work to be taken solely on it's surface. For instance; one can read the Bible and take it to be a morality if we don't like that group of people over there because they don't believe as we do we can just kill them and God will be on our side for it. Killing some or a group of people that don't believe as we do is not what those teachings are about.

It is always best to learn the teachings of the Bible with others that have a far better insight than we ourselves have unless one is of a spiritual nature and willing to look deeper into what the words themselves seem to be saying.

I fully understand how "unbelievers" come to the conclusions they do. Because I can not get into their heads; I think many discard the Bible for their own reasons of morality of, for an example such as I gave above, how can it be moral to just kill someone else because they don't believe as I/we do.

Even the Bible points out that faith is the belief in what is not seen.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#238 Mar 19, 2013
I should clarify: I'm not saying "unbelievers" don't fully have a concept of their disbelief and are just misunderstanding. I am saying I understand how the Bible can be easily misunderstood.
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#239 Mar 19, 2013
pipedream wrote:
why are you such a douchebag in real life?
We've all been wondering the same thing about you.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#240 Mar 19, 2013
Barb wrote:
<quoted text>
It was probably too deep for you. Try reading the book.
Please...do you want yet another division/cult/sect of christianity to be born because someone read that book and found yet another intrepetation?
Sheeesh, isn't 38,000+ divisions enough?

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#241 Mar 19, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
So they're fallible humans just like the rest of us. Big deal.
I don't recall reading anywhere that being Christian means you're suddenly infallible and perfect.
And who are you to say that God can't and doesn't talk to people? You think God is incapable of that?
I was talking about them and all of the things they say that god has told them its all BS. And why these people?

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#242 Mar 19, 2013
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
I watched a little more of The Bible. Not much there.
Did you notice how the devil in the movie looks just like Obama?
Is that just a strange coincidence? Or what?
At first, I thought,.....ahhhh just a movie, it's all fiction.
But then when I saw the Obama / devil scene, I'm thinking that this is actual video that was shot live.

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#243 Mar 20, 2013
I have decided that after watching a few religious(christian programs) over the last few days that these people are no less terrorists than any muslim radical. They want to show us where we have strayed and if we don't bow to there version of god then we are useless infidels who must be eliminated. Confess repent and be saved, from what I ask, from what?
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#244 Mar 20, 2013
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
I have decided that after watching a few religious(christian programs) over the last few days that these people are no less terrorists than any muslim radical. They want to show us where we have strayed and if we don't bow to there version of god then we are useless infidels who must be eliminated. Confess repent and be saved, from what I ask, from what?
What Christian is trying to eliminate you, and how?

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