What about the whole Trayvon situation?

Created by Geha on Jul 1, 2013

219 votes

Click on an option to vote

The fat guy is guilty and should be jailed

It was self-defense; Trayvon was up to no good

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#337 Jul 19, 2013
Glenn Tett. Harold Fisch. George Zimmerman.

If one wants to find racism, there is a pattern, although it's seems that it's only a race thing when a "reported" white person is attacked by a African-american person.

TM knew that GZ was following, and talking to the police, so he decided to double back and ambush him to get a little "payback". The 911 call demonstrated that GZ was keeping his distance and only trying to point the police in the right direction. In doing that, TM instigated the whole thing, and assaulted GZ.

As much as I hate even the idea of racism, if (and the whole "racism" thing has been created by the media and administration) GZ was shouting racial epithets, it wouldn't matter as it was TM who chose to assault someone thereby committing a forcible felony. He left GZ the choice no choice but to defend himself.

You don't get to assault someone just because they look different. While I feel for the family, I do not miss having someone on the street who thinks violence is a proper response to someone looking different or calling the police on them.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#338 Jul 19, 2013
lanyard wrote:
Glenn Tett. Harold Fisch. George Zimmerman.
If one wants to find racism, there is a pattern, although it's seems that it's only a race thing when a "reported" white person is attacked by a African-american person.
TM knew that GZ was following, and talking to the police, so he decided to double back and ambush him to get a little "payback". The 911 call demonstrated that GZ was keeping his distance and only trying to point the police in the right direction. In doing that, TM instigated the whole thing, and assaulted GZ.
As much as I hate even the idea of racism, if (and the whole "racism" thing has been created by the media and administration) GZ was shouting racial epithets, it wouldn't matter as it was TM who chose to assault someone thereby committing a forcible felony. He left GZ the choice no choice but to defend himself.
You don't get to assault someone just because they look different. While I feel for the family, I do not miss having someone on the street who thinks violence is a proper response to someone looking different or calling the police on them.
Yet another comment from someone who appears to know nothing about the Stand Your Ground laws and Martin's right to exercise them using lethal force if he deemed he was in danger...being followed by someone carrying a gun who had not identified himself or the reason for his presence.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#339 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet another comment from someone who appears to know nothing about the Stand Your Ground laws and Martin's right to exercise them using lethal force if he deemed he was in danger...being followed by someone carrying a gun who had not identified himself or the reason for his presence.
Yet it appears that you know nothing about the trial since SYG had zero influence in the case. It was brought up by the media pre-trial but was never used by either the prosecution or the defense. It had as much to do with the case as Florida's laws regarding the capture of alligators on private property.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#340 Jul 19, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet it appears that you know nothing about the trial since SYG had zero influence in the case. It was brought up by the media pre-trial but was never used by either the prosecution or the defense. It had as much to do with the case as Florida's laws regarding the capture of alligators on private property.
It was mentioned by the judge when she addressed the jury in their consideration.
Martin had rights and SYG one of them.
Oneal

Three Rivers, MI

#341 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet another comment from someone who appears to know nothing about the Stand Your Ground laws and Martin's right to exercise them using lethal force if he deemed he was in danger...being followed by someone carrying a gun who had not identified himself or the reason for his presence.
Stand Your Ground wasn't even mentioned in the trial? It had nothing to do with this.

Even still, despite having no bearing on this trial whatsoever, the social justice-seekers got their wish and Florida reviewed the Stand Your Ground law. They came back with a recommendation to leave it as is - they saw nothing needing changed. In fact, it appears the Stand Your Ground law has served to benefit black people in a disproportionate amount over other races.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/07/16/blacks-bene...

Black Floridians have made about a third of the state’s total “Stand Your Ground” claims in homicide cases, a rate nearly double the black percentage of Florida’s population. The majority of those claims have been successful, a success rate that exceeds that for Florida whites.

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#342 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet another comment from someone who appears to know nothing about the Stand Your Ground laws ...
That's a lie.
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>and Martin's right to exercise them using lethal force if he deemed he was in danger
That's a lie
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>...being followed by someone carrying a gun who had not identified himself or the reason for his presence.
TM assaulted GZ, and that has nothing to do with "Stand your ground". Painting it that way is simply dishonest.

Trayvon was a bigot (He called GZ a "creeepy Cracka") who assaulted someone for it.

It is you who demonstrate ignorance of the SYG law, and you do so dishonestly.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#343 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
It was mentioned by the judge when she addressed the jury in their consideration.
Martin had rights and SYG one of them.
The phrase "stand your ground" was mentioned, but not the law.
Here is what the judge said "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

If the SYG law had been part of the trial there would have been a pre-trial hearing to determine if it could be used in trial. Because GZ was attacked SYG didn't come into play. The law, commonly referred to as "shoot first" assumes the individual could have run away but instead used deadly force. GZ's defense was that he was attacked and shot in self-defense. If TM had been running at GZ and been shot at some distance, that would have been SYG. As soon as they got into a physical fight, SYG wasn't an option.
free thinker

Farmington, MI

#344 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
Yet another comment from someone who appears to know nothing about the Stand Your Ground laws and Martin's right to exercise them using lethal force if he deemed he was in danger...
That's twisting the law and you know it. Stand your ground does not apply if the other party stands down or is retreating. You can't double back, confront and attack someone and claim 'stand your ground'. Also,'stand your ground' in Florida only applies if you are attacked, not if you are 'followed', or just don't like how the other guy looks or speaks.
Nobody witnessed Zimmerman attack Martin. We do, however, have witnesses who say they saw Martin attack Zimmerman.

3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm...

I also doubt race played any part in this since it was nearly dark and raining and Zimmerman wasn't even certain what the race of the person he was following was when he called 911.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#345 Jul 19, 2013
lanyard wrote:
<quoted text> That's a lie. <quoted text>That's a lie <quoted text> TM assaulted GZ, and that has nothing to do with "Stand your ground". Painting it that way is simply dishonest.
Trayvon was a bigot (He called GZ a "creeepy Cracka") who assaulted someone for it.
It is you who demonstrate ignorance of the SYG law, and you do so dishonestly.
Please produce one recording in Martin's voice where he said (He called GZ a "creeepy Cracka").

I'll wait...

I sincerely hope for your sake you are never followed and determine you are in danger...you obviously won't know what to do.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#346 Jul 19, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
The phrase "stand your ground" was mentioned, but not the law.
Here is what the judge said "If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."
If the SYG law had been part of the trial there would have been a pre-trial hearing to determine if it could be used in trial. Because GZ was attacked SYG didn't come into play. The law, commonly referred to as "shoot first" assumes the individual could have run away but instead used deadly force. GZ's defense was that he was attacked and shot in self-defense. If TM had been running at GZ and been shot at some distance, that would have been SYG. As soon as they got into a physical fight, SYG wasn't an option.
If Martin felt he was in danger he had every right to not retreat and use lethal force. We'll never know because he's kinda dead.
I guess that's the premise the bad guys will start using now. Follow someone, get them to SYG, kill them after they use lethal force that the bad guy instigated, then claim self defense.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#347 Jul 19, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
That's twisting the law and you know it. Stand your ground does not apply if the other party stands down or is retreating. You can't double back, confront and attack someone and claim 'stand your ground'. Also,'stand your ground' in Florida only applies if you are attacked, not if you are 'followed', or just don't like how the other guy looks or speaks.
Nobody witnessed Zimmerman attack Martin. We do, however, have witnesses who say they saw Martin attack Zimmerman.
3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm...
I also doubt race played any part in this since it was nearly dark and raining and Zimmerman wasn't even certain what the race of the person he was following was when he called 911.
So just how do you know Martin was not in the SYG scenerio you describe under the law??
Zimmerman's story about what happened?? That's a joke. Zimmerman was NOT going to implicate himself and knew the SYG law and how it applied to his situation.

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#348 Jul 19, 2013
Here's someone that agrees with me. I doubt many of you will actuall read the article but the message is very clear...
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/11/opinion/francis...

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#349 Jul 19, 2013
free thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
That's twisting the law and you know it. Stand your ground does not apply if the other party stands down or is retreating. You can't double back, confront and attack someone and claim 'stand your ground'. Also,'stand your ground' in Florida only applies if you are attacked, not if you are 'followed', or just don't like how the other guy looks or speaks.
Nobody witnessed Zimmerman attack Martin. We do, however, have witnesses who say they saw Martin attack Zimmerman.
3)&#8195;A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm...
I also doubt race played any part in this since it was nearly dark and raining and Zimmerman wasn't even certain what the race of the person he was following was when he called 911.
Since you are using the law...Martin had no idea why he was being followed and could very well fall into this catagory...Zimmerman did not identify himself or give any reason for his following Martin.

Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1)&#8195;He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#350 Jul 19, 2013
You guys really don't get it do you?

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#351 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Please produce one recording in Martin's voice where he said (He called GZ a "creeepy Cracka").
I'll wait...
I sincerely hope for your sake you are never followed and determine you are in danger...you obviously won't know what to do.
No need to since it was in testimony for the prosecution.(IOW, the prosecution presented it as evidence)

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#352 Jul 19, 2013
lanyard wrote:
<quoted text>No need to since it was in testimony for the prosecution.(IOW, the prosecution presented it as evidence)
Heresay...and you know it...I hope...
So there's no recording??

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#353 Jul 19, 2013
lanyard wrote:
<quoted text>No need to since it was in testimony for the prosecution.(IOW, the prosecution presented it as evidence)
And as a footnote...the prosecution lawyers for Florida were/are inept and should be sent back to law school.

Since: Feb 10

Grand Rapids, MI

#354 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
If Martin felt he was in danger he had every right to not retreat and use lethal force. We'll never know because he's kinda dead.
I guess that's the premise the bad guys will start using now. Follow someone, get them to SYG, kill them after they use lethal force that the bad guy instigated, then claim self defense.
Yes, if he felt he was in danger he had every right to not retreat. As did GZ if he felt he was in danger. There is a difference between "not retreating" and "attacking." They could have stood apart at 10 feet and yelled at each other and they would both be alive. Based on the testimony it seems like TM confronted GZ and then attacked him. Unfortunately GZ had a gun that he then used. Honestly we may never know all of the facts other than two people screwed up and as a result, one lost their life. But as I said before, yes it was a tragedy but all tragedies are not crimes. For GZ to be found guilty of 2nd degree there would have had to be intent on his part. When he got out of his car, did he do so with the intent to kill TM? There is no evidence at all to support that charge.

One can point at GM and say "he should have..." and TM would be alive. That's true. And it is also true about TM that "he should have..." and he would he alive.

One question. You said "that's the premise the bad guys will start using now. Follow someone, get them to SYG, kill them after they use lethal force that the bad guy instigated, then claim self defense." How does the bad guy "kill them after they use lethal force"? If you are the bad guy and I use lethal force and put a round between your eyes, how are you going to kill me after that?

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#355 Jul 19, 2013
FLBeaver wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, if he felt he was in danger he had every right to not retreat. As did GZ if he felt he was in danger. There is a difference between "not retreating" and "attacking." They could have stood apart at 10 feet and yelled at each other and they would both be alive. Based on the testimony it seems like TM confronted GZ and then attacked him. Unfortunately GZ had a gun that he then used. Honestly we may never know all of the facts other than two people screwed up and as a result, one lost their life. But as I said before, yes it was a tragedy but all tragedies are not crimes. For GZ to be found guilty of 2nd degree there would have had to be intent on his part. When he got out of his car, did he do so with the intent to kill TM? There is no evidence at all to support that charge.
One can point at GM and say "he should have..." and TM would be alive. That's true. And it is also true about TM that "he should have..." and he would he alive.
One question. You said "that's the premise the bad guys will start using now. Follow someone, get them to SYG, kill them after they use lethal force that the bad guy instigated, then claim self defense." How does the bad guy "kill them after they use lethal force"? If you are the bad guy and I use lethal force and put a round between your eyes, how are you going to kill me after that?
In this case, the only thing GZ did wrong was not be african-american, and use a gun. People who oppose this verdict would rather there be a dead GZ and one more miscreant walking the streets.

Since: Feb 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#356 Jul 19, 2013
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
And as a footnote...the prosecution lawyers for Florida were/are inept and should be sent back to law school.
Your right about that. That they shouldn't have even brought charges shows how incompetent they are, but there's such an anti self-defense push (people are screaming the race card just to drum up support for that agenda)that they bowed to political pressure.

Your a great example of that. Your so bent on your agenda that you misapply law and twist around the events contrary to the forensic evidence.

This verdict was a great statement to all the wannabe thugs in society that, "even when there is great political pressure for a lynching, you still don't get free reign to victimize people like GZ."

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Grand Rapids Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Back in Iraq. WMD's? oil? 7 hr No_More_Dems 106
WLLA channel 64 - off the air? (Feb '12) 9 hr glassy girl 8
Obama and cocaine addicts 17 hr Leroy 11
go blue goes black Tue Idea Maker 68
Crowd Walks Out On Obama Tue no_more_dems 6
Watch Racebaiter Oprah Wigout On Guest's Opinion Tue Eldasha 54
How bad are grand rapids roads Tue a commenter 3
Grand Rapids Dating
Find my Match

Grand Rapids Jobs

Grand Rapids People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Grand Rapids News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Grand Rapids

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]