Innocent Little Trayvon

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Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

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#123
Jun 22, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
With the F.B.I.'s admission that technology is completely unable to ascertain the source of the crys for help on several 911 taped calls.....If this was truly the cornerstone of the prosecution's case, as has been reported....they have even less grounds for a trial, than i thought.....
Unlike the court of public opinion, true justice in America requires the prosecution prove beyond the shadow of a doubt the accused is guilty. In this case the prosecution has a smoking gun, but might lack the evidence to prove why it was fired.

In contrast, all the defense has to do is provide probably cause. The fact Zimmerman was beaten, head spit open, and bleeding, and Martin's knuckles were injured upon autopsy provides probable cause that Martin attacked Zimmerman and Zimmerman used lethal force to protect himself. In Florida it's legal to kill someone in self-defense.

From the evidence we've heard, the prosecution's only reasonable argument is the evidence that Zimmerman was told not to pursue Martin.

Since: Oct 12

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#124
Jun 22, 2013
 
As a resident, i was surprised that the state's judicial system, would go fishing with this case...especially with the poor job they did with the Casey Anthony trial....this is likely more about pro-minority pressure and social engineering, than any justice......
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

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#125
Jun 22, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
As a resident, i was surprised that the state's judicial system, would go fishing with this case...especially with the poor job they did with the Casey Anthony trial....this is likely more about pro-minority pressure and social engineering, than any justice......
Social justice.

Zimmerman has already been found guilty by social justice, regardless of whether he's found innocent or guilty in a legal court of law.

If Zimmerman is found innocent there will be protests and violence, possibly lethal. We can thank "social engineering" for that. We can thank social engineering for placing public opinion on a higher level than our American justice system, and ginning up a large number of people simply because one person was black and the other wasn't.

Murders are committed by young black males of young black males every day in America. Why does this particular case warrant so much more attention than the hundreds of gang-related inner-city deaths every year?

Because it perpetuates a narrative that allows a group of people to gain vast sums of political power and money, and they will exploit any opportunity to take advantage, that's why.

I personally have no interest in what happens to Zimmerman. All I know is no matter what happens in this trial, social engineering/social justice has driven is backwards in our fight against racism before a real trial has taken place.

Pity.

Since: Oct 12

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#126
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Then get ready, cause he's not guilty.....In Florida, white social justice demands it.....
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

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#127
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
Then get ready, cause he's not guilty.....In Florida, white social justice demands it.....
White social justice???!!! Is that like calling an hispanic man a white hispanic? I have never heard of either. You guys just make this crap up as you go.
Too funny.
So, if they find Zimmerman guilty, as most here seem to have already determined, do you think the "white social justice" supporters are going to riot in the streets?
Yellow

Grand Rapids, MI

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#128
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
Social justice.
Zimmerman has already been found guilty by social justice, regardless of whether he's found innocent or guilty in a legal court of law.
If Zimmerman is found innocent there will be protests and violence, possibly lethal. We can thank "social engineering" for that. We can thank social engineering for placing public opinion on a higher level than our American justice system, and ginning up a large number of people simply because one person was black and the other wasn't.
Murders are committed by young black males of young black males every day in America. Why does this particular case warrant so much more attention than the hundreds of gang-related inner-city deaths every year?
Because it perpetuates a narrative that allows a group of people to gain vast sums of political power and money, and they will exploit any opportunity to take advantage, that's why.
I personally have no interest in what happens to Zimmerman. All I know is no matter what happens in this trial, social engineering/social justice has driven is backwards in our fight against racism before a real trial has taken place.
Pity.
If you think for one minute black people aren't picked out and assumed to be a criminal, by non- black people, you are a fricken idiot. Why is this case drawing a lot of attention? Because this young, unarmed,man was picked out, followed and deemed suspicious by Zimmerman simply because he was black. He was then shot and killed. I'm sorry you see nothing wrong with that scenario and you are entitled to your opinion but don't get all upset a people who see things the way they are. What this has to do with political power and everything else in your rant is beyond me. By all means though continue to preach to the rest of the world about how things are for the black community and what they face on a daily basis from the safety and insulation of your manicured little white suburban cracke jack box neighborhood.

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#129
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
White social justice???!!! Is that like calling an hispanic man a white hispanic? I have never heard of either. You guys just make this crap up as you go.
Too funny.
So, if they find Zimmerman guilty, as most here seem to have already determined, do you think the "white social justice" supporters are going to riot in the streets?
Hell....they haven't even recovered the bets on the last two elections,...yet!.....lol....

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

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#130
Jun 23, 2013
 
I would submit this...
The Stand Your Ground law authorizes the unfettered use of deadly force in self-defense. One provision of the law explicitly limits the use of deadly force without a duty to retreat to those who are not engaged in unlawful activity.
A person “has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground” to prevent great bodily harm or even the commission of a felony.

Martin clearly knew he was being followed and according to the law had every right to stand his ground. His fists were the only lethal weapon he had as he was obviously not armed with any other weapon.

I am not basing this on a presumption that Zimmerman is automatically guilty. The confusion surrounding the law as it stands in Florida actually protects a felon who uses a gun in a stand your ground situation.

Taken from this source...
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/04/11/1...

This case is truely an example of a poorly written law left to be interpretted only as unexpected circumstances arise...such as the Martin incident.

Since: Oct 12

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#131
Jun 23, 2013
 
Wiggley, why even bother with stand your ground?....this case is the definition of, Self Defense......Interesting fact about the 911 tape...In the first few days, Tracy Martin was positive the screams weren't Trayvon....Then Benjamin Crump, his lawyer entered the scene and that all oddly changed.....
Oneal

Grand Rapids, MI

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#132
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Yellow wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think for one minute black people aren't picked out and assumed to be a criminal, by non- black people, you are a fricken idiot. Why is this case drawing a lot of attention? Because this young, unarmed,man was picked out, followed and deemed suspicious by Zimmerman simply because he was black. He was then shot and killed. I'm sorry you see nothing wrong with that scenario and you are entitled to your opinion but don't get all upset a people who see things the way they are. What this has to do with political power and everything else in your rant is beyond me. By all means though continue to preach to the rest of the world about how things are for the black community and what they face on a daily basis from the safety and insulation of your manicured little white suburban cracke jack box neighborhood.
How do you know he was "picked out" by Zimmerman because he was black?

From reports the reason Zimmerman was patrolling the streets around his neighborhood in the first place was because they had experienced a rash of break-ins. Zimmerman was volunteering his own time to keep his neighborhood safe. The picture of innocent little pre-teen Treyvon wasn't exactly accurate. He was in fact a fully-grown man who wasn't a resident in a neighborhood that was frightened enough to create volunteer patrols to keep the neighborhood safe.

So, who's making assumption here? Even if Zimerman described Martin as black it was after all an accurate description. Was Martin's skin color the reason he was pursued? Would Zimmerman have followed an Asian, white, hispanic person in the same manner? You don't know. You're just assuming because Martin was black he was "picked out" - but you don't know. You're entire rant is based on a predetermined assumption.

All I have been saying this entire time is that because we don't know all the facts we, as AMERICANS, must adhere to our principles, one of the most important being INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a legal court of law.

So, you're all pissed off because you THINK this was a race-based event. You're so sure about it that you've already convicted someone before they've had a trial. You're willingly abandoning one of this country's founding principles and getting pissed off and making racist comments of your own at someone who's simply supporting a principle we should all adhere to as Americans.

You've actually made a racist comment here because you're mad about what you think was a racist decision on someone else's part. So, who's the "fricken idiot" again??

Now, who's the "fricken' idiot?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

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#133
Jun 23, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
Wiggley, why even bother with stand your ground?....this case is the definition of, Self Defense......Interesting fact about the 911 tape...In the first few days, Tracy Martin was positive the screams weren't Trayvon....Then Benjamin Crump, his lawyer entered the scene and that all oddly changed.....
Hey Blue...If Martin knew he was being followed did he not have the right to stand his ground if he felt endangered?

Since: Oct 12

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#134
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Blue...If Martin knew he was being followed did he not have the right to stand his ground if he felt endangered?
Based on most all the evidence, i have seen since the start....that is kinda a far-out theory....especially since, zero evidence has disputed George's claim that Trayvon approached, as George was returning to his car....I'm not arguing, though...if you feel George is guilty, that's yours.....

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

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#135
Jun 23, 2013
 
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Based on most all the evidence, i have seen since the start....that is kinda a far-out theory....especially since, zero evidence has disputed George's claim that Trayvon approached, as George was returning to his car....I'm not arguing, though...if you feel George is guilty, that's yours.....
That's the whole problem here I think Blue...at what point does someone's right to stand their ground begin? Martin was not initially following Zimmerman, Zimmerman was following Martin. At what point in this confrontation does one establish or exercise the stand your ground right?
Martin was being watched/stalked by Zimmerman...we clearly know that. Martin was doing nothing wrong...we know that also. The only person who might have had a reason to believe they were in danger was Martin, not Zimmerman because Martin was being followed.
The stand your ground law clearly allows Martin to use lethal force if he felt he was in danger.

I know the law sucks...and I wish you would/could admit that, as I don't believe either party is probably more guilty than the other. They are both victims of a very flawed law the way it is written.

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

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#136
Jun 23, 2013
 
Back when this happened, Treyvon Martin's own father said that the cries for help on the 911 recording were Not from his son. And after seeing the photo's of Zimmerman's bloody face, and the blood on the back of his head from being slammed against the sidewalk, I've leaned towards it was a case of Zimmerman defending himself.
Zimmerman was not charged with anything initially, but them the media got ahold of it, and pressured the authorities into pressing charges.
Now it is up to the prosicutors to prove without a doubt, tha Zimmerman was not defending himself and deliberatly murdered Martin.
Without any eye witness's I think that is going to be hard to prove.
Zimmerman claims he was walking back to his truck, when he was attacked by Martin.
Unless there is a witness than can come forward and dispute that claim, then we have to believe that Zimmerman was defending hinself.
How else can one explain Zimmerman's injuries?
It's in the jury's hands now.
Yellow

Grand Rapids, MI

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#137
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Oneal wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know he was "picked out" by Zimmerman because he was black?
From reports the reason Zimmerman was patrolling the streets around his neighborhood in the first place was because they had experienced a rash of break-ins. Zimmerman was volunteering his own time to keep his neighborhood safe. The picture of innocent little pre-teen Treyvon wasn't exactly accurate. He was in fact a fully-grown man who wasn't a resident in a neighborhood that was frightened enough to create volunteer patrols to keep the neighborhood safe.
So, who's making assumption here? Even if Zimerman described Martin as black it was after all an accurate description. Was Martin's skin color the reason he was pursued? Would Zimmerman have followed an Asian, white, hispanic person in the same manner? You don't know. You're just assuming because Martin was black he was "picked out" - but you don't know. You're entire rant is based on a predetermined assumption.
All I have been saying this entire time is that because we don't know all the facts we, as AMERICANS, must adhere to our principles, one of the most important being INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY in a legal court of law.
So, you're all pissed off because you THINK this was a race-based event. You're so sure about it that you've already convicted someone before they've had a trial. You're willingly abandoning one of this country's founding principles and getting pissed off and making racist comments of your own at someone who's simply supporting a principle we should all adhere to as Americans.
You've actually made a racist comment here because you're mad about what you think was a racist decision on someone else's part. So, who's the "fricken idiot" again??
Now, who's the "fricken' idiot?
Of course he wouldn't have been followed if he were white or Asian! That's the whole point of the story idiot! It's not an assumption, it's a fact. If you think his race had nothing to do with it then you are more than just an idiot, you're beyond stupid and beyond help. You know it just as well as I know that this kid was followed because he was black. Armed with no more than a bag of skittles he was pursued, harassed and forced to fight back.

“Come and get it! ”

Since: Jan 09

Traverse City

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#138
Jun 23, 2013
 
Yellow wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course he wouldn't have been followed if he were white or Asian! That's the whole point of the story idiot! It's not an assumption, it's a fact. If you think his race had nothing to do with it then you are more than just an idiot, you're beyond stupid and beyond help. You know it just as well as I know that this kid was followed because he was black. Armed with no more than a bag of skittles he was pursued, harassed and forced to fight back.
Thanks for proving yet again that liberal democrats are the biggest racists out there. Can't you people ever go one day without seeing everything through the prism of skin color?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

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#139
Jun 23, 2013
 
Gville Jim wrote:
Back when this happened, Treyvon Martin's own father said that the cries for help on the 911 recording were Not from his son. And after seeing the photo's of Zimmerman's bloody face, and the blood on the back of his head from being slammed against the sidewalk, I've leaned towards it was a case of Zimmerman defending himself.
Zimmerman was not charged with anything initially, but them the media got ahold of it, and pressured the authorities into pressing charges.
Now it is up to the prosicutors to prove without a doubt, tha Zimmerman was not defending himself and deliberatly murdered Martin.
Without any eye witness's I think that is going to be hard to prove.
Zimmerman claims he was walking back to his truck, when he was attacked by Martin.
Unless there is a witness than can come forward and dispute that claim, then we have to believe that Zimmerman was defending hinself.
How else can one explain Zimmerman's injuries?
It's in the jury's hands now.
Hi Jim,
The "cries for help" recordings have been ruled inadmissable as they should be.
There is no provision in the stand your ground law that requires you be hurt or attacked when going into "Stand Your Ground" mode. This means even if Martin felt he were in danger by being followed, which we know he knew he was, he was well within his rights to use lethal force as he deemed necessary, to defend himself.
By all accounts it seems Zimmerman may have created a situation whereby an innocent stranger walking home was put into a moment of fear. That fear led to someone (Martin) using his right to put swerious hurt on the person or persons making him feel unsafe.

Think about it. It's a horrible law the way it's written.

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#140
Jun 23, 2013
 
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the whole problem here I think Blue...at what point does someone's right to stand their ground begin? Martin was not initially following Zimmerman, Zimmerman was following Martin. At what point in this confrontation does one establish or exercise the stand your ground right?
Martin was being watched/stalked by Zimmerman...we clearly know that. Martin was doing nothing wrong...we know that also. The only person who might have had a reason to believe they were in danger was Martin, not Zimmerman because Martin was being followed.
The stand your ground law clearly allows Martin to use lethal force if he felt he was in danger.
I know the law sucks...and I wish you would/could admit that, as I don't believe either party is probably more guilty than the other. They are both victims of a very flawed law the way it is written.
Are you pulling my leg?....Use of the Stand Your Ground, was talked about initially, in regards to George's defense.....but discarded, as it's classic Self Defense.....Are you just kidding?...

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#141
Jun 23, 2013
 

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Jim is correct, in that Tracy Martin stated initially that the voice crying out for help, was'nt Trayvon......which he amended, when his attorney, Benjamin Crump taught him the error of that path....lol....
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

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#142
Jun 24, 2013
 

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Go Blue Forever wrote:
With the F.B.I.'s admission that technology is completely unable to ascertain the source of the crys for help on several 911 taped calls.....If this was truly the cornerstone of the prosecution's case, as has been reported....they have even less grounds for a trial, than i thought.....
Don't I remember that trigger man George's defense team was recently claiming that those tapes were proof that it was their client's cries for help?

Regardless, the real trial starts today with opening statements, and the only evidence that counts will be given to the jury as the trial progresses.

It's too bad that so many people will be upset by the verdict because their closed minds aren't capable of allowing justice to take the path it is supposed to. You could almost say they were standing their ground.....

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