Records: Man drinking before fatal stairway fall

Jun 1, 2013 Full story: Northern Michigan News 28

Records show a 36-year-old West Michigan man had been drinking before falling to his death from a winding staircase at a Grand Rapids nightclub.

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Who

Wyoming, MI

#1 Jun 1, 2013
Wow! Really?

He was at a bar, what are the chances he would have been drinking?

How did you ever come to this conclusion Sherlock?

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#2 Jun 1, 2013
Maybe the B.O.B. should put a trampoline at the bottom of those stair's?
That way,.... when the drunks fall down,....they will bounce right back up.
Jerry

Grand Rapids, MI

#3 Jun 1, 2013
Maybe the BOB should do something about this. They make money off of selling people a very potent drug and then expect these people to act with a clear head around what amounts to be a cliff with a 30 foot drop off. If you want to f them up then YOU are responsible for them at your establishment, period. There's been three dead when it should have stopped with one, at the most! That blood is on the owner's hands. I wonder how he sleeps at night?
SOS in Mesa

Phoenix, AZ

#4 Jun 1, 2013
Jerry wrote:
Maybe the BOB should do something about this. They make money off of selling people a very potent drug and then expect these people to act with a clear head around what amounts to be a cliff with a 30 foot drop off. If you want to f them up then YOU are responsible for them at your establishment, period. There's been three dead when it should have stopped with one, at the most! That blood is on the owner's hands. I wonder how he sleeps at night?
Personal responsibility isn't a factor any more? Did the owner with the bloody hands take them hostage and force them into his establishment?
Who

Wyoming, MI

#5 Jun 1, 2013
Jerry wrote:
Maybe the BOB should do something about this. They make money off of selling people a very potent drug and then expect these people to act with a clear head around what amounts to be a cliff with a 30 foot drop off. If you want to f them up then YOU are responsible for them at your establishment, period. There's been three dead when it should have stopped with one, at the most! That blood is on the owner's hands. I wonder how he sleeps at night?
Yup, it's everybody else's fault this dumbass couldn't control himself.

Stupidity kills.
Jerry

Grand Rapids, MI

#6 Jun 2, 2013
SOS in Mesa wrote:
<quoted text>Personal responsibility isn't a factor any more? Did the owner with the bloody hands take them hostage and force them into his establishment?
How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk? Who got them drunk? Who is responsible for that person when they are drunk on their property? The least you can do if you are running a drug den is to make sure the people you are selling drugs to are going to be safe after you make your money off of them and after you inebriate them.
Jerry

Grand Rapids, MI

#7 Jun 2, 2013
Who wrote:
<quoted text>
Yup, it's everybody else's fault this dumbass couldn't control himself.
Stupidity kills.
You know what kills? Seeing two people fall to their deaths and do nothing about it and then allowing a third to fall and die. In this case the owner killed.
Who

Wyoming, MI

#8 Jun 2, 2013
Jerry wrote:
<quoted text>
You know what kills? Seeing two people fall to their deaths and do nothing about it and then allowing a third to fall and die. In this case the owner killed.
And how many thousands go there, drink, and use the same stairs WITHOUT any problems every single week?

But no, it's the owners fault because of 3 idiots, who were probably screwing around anyhow and couldn't control themselves in a public place.
SOS in Mesa

Phoenix, AZ

#9 Jun 2, 2013
Jerry wrote:
<quoted text>
You know what kills? Seeing two people fall to their deaths and do nothing about it and then allowing a third to fall and die. In this case the owner killed.
The two most overused phrases in our society-----"not my fault" and "it's not fair".

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#10 Jun 2, 2013
Jerry wrote:
<quoted text>
How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk? Who got them drunk?
Really?
You think that someone else got them drunk, and they had no part in it themselves?

"How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk?"

Classic,.....
Allways someone else's fault.
Who

Wyoming, MI

#11 Jun 2, 2013
Gville Jim wrote:
<quoted text>Really?
You think that someone else got them drunk, and they had no part in it themselves?
"How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk?"
Classic,.....
Allways someone else's fault.
Of course, isn't that what they do at bars? Make everybody drink at gunpoint?

Gotta force them to drink their liquor somehow right?

“Selected Marksman”

Since: Aug 08

Northern Virginia

#12 Jun 2, 2013
Gville Jim wrote:
<quoted text>Really?
You think that someone else got them drunk, and they had no part in it themselves?
"How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk?"
Classic,.....
Allways someone else's fault.
The owner is in 100% compliance with all I.C.C.(International Code Council) requirements. That is why no one has had grounds to sue.
The stairways and railings are considered to be compliant and safe.

I agree..."it's always someone elses fault" is the default blame switch game...except it's not a valid arguement.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Jun 2, 2013
Jerry wrote:
How much personal responsibility does one have while drunk? Who got them drunk?
A) I know this is a tough concept for today's liberals to grasp, but personal responsibility comes in BEFORE you get drunk in knowing when you've had enough and stopping rather than drinking until you're falling down [stairs] drunk. Personal responsibility comes in knowing that you've had too much and taking the elevator rather than the stairs (the BOB does have one, you know).
B) The person who got them drunk is the one who was ordering and drinking the alcohol unless you have some proof that the bartender was running the drinks into this guy's stomach through a hose against his will.
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

#14 Jun 2, 2013
Mr. Wiggly,

Sorry to disagree with you on this, but a precedence has been set. There have been 3 deaths at this bar. 2 in the last 60 days. The first case settled for $400,000. When it comes to a lawsuit the percentage of fault will be determined. After 3 deaths, and the first lawsuit settling for $400,000 that these last 2 will be higher. The Bob's liability insurance carrier may also have a continued problem insuring him. I am in no way saying that the people that drank should be held unaccountable. However, whenever alcohol is served and an accident via this or someone's home or another bar. Where the alcohol was served will alway's be a factor.

If I were to have a party at my house and let a very drunk person leave after they consumed alcohol on my premise, and they killed someone on the way home. It would be very likely that I would also be sued as it was consumed on my property and I let the person leave.
Mr Wiggley wrote:
<quoted text>
The owner is in 100% compliance with all I.C.C.(International Code Council) requirements. That is why no one has had grounds to sue.
The stairways and railings are considered to be compliant and safe.
I agree..."it's always someone elses fault" is the default blame switch game...except it's not a valid arguement.
Fred

Caledonia, MI

#15 Jun 2, 2013
As far as I am concerned, this guy committed suicide. If he got so drunk that he couldn't control himself and fell down the stairs to his death, then he alone is responsible for his fate. While I feel sorry that the dead consumer made this mistake, he alone made the choices that led to his death.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#16 Jun 3, 2013
Sassy wrote:

If I were to have a party at my house and let a very drunk person leave after they consumed alcohol on my premise, and they killed someone on the way home. It would be very likely that I would also be sued as it was consumed on my property and I let the person leave.
To be fair, you'd need to compare apples to apples here. So in your house party scenario above, your guest gets drunk and walks out into the street in front of a car and gets hit on his way home.
You do realize that if you don't let someone leave, you could also be charged with unlawful imprisonment? You could call him a cab, yes...but you can't hold him hostage because you think he tipped a few too many.
vox veritatis

Grand Rapids, MI

#17 Jun 3, 2013
Sassy wrote:

Sorry to disagree with you on this, but a precedence has been set. There have been 3 deaths at this bar. 2 in the last 60 days. The first case settled for $400,000. When it comes to a lawsuit the percentage of fault will be determined. After 3 deaths, and the first lawsuit settling for $400,000 that these last 2 will be higher.
I doubt it. In death number 2, he wasn't even using the stairs in a typical manner. Seems he was so drunk, he must have thought he was a mountain goat and was jumping from rail to rail racing his friend down the stairs. Kinda hard to keep idiots from being idiots and in this guy's case, it earned him a nomination for Darwin award.
BTW...if a guest in your house falls down the stairs and is injured or killed, you're liable whether they were drunk or stone cold sober. Same thing with the BOB; the payouts happen simply because someone was injured on their property.
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

#18 Jun 3, 2013
Neither was the first one. If you want to be argumentative go ahead, I am not going to argue with you. The facts remain the BOB serves alcohol. People don't act responsible when they have too much. Where was it served? Sorry, the same senario would be held if it happened in my home. In a lawsuit the responsibility is divided up on a percentage basis. It is a fact. The BOB will be sued in the last 2 deaths just as they were in the first one. It is also a known fact that if you own a bar there are heavy liability issues. The bars or stores or homes are always named in the lawsuit when there is a death. Yes that is fact that should someone be injured on my property I would be held liable no matter what. That is why I have No Trespassing signs posted.
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt it. In death number 2, he wasn't even using the stairs in a typical manner. Seems he was so drunk, he must have thought he was a mountain goat and was jumping from rail to rail racing his friend down the stairs. Kinda hard to keep idiots from being idiots and in this guy's case, it earned him a nomination for Darwin award.
BTW...if a guest in your house falls down the stairs and is injured or killed, you're liable whether they were drunk or stone cold sober. Same thing with the BOB; the payouts happen simply because someone was injured on their property.
Sassy

Grand Rapids, MI

#19 Jun 3, 2013
Unlawful imprisonment of someone that is too drunk too drive. If someone was that argumentative with me I would hand him the phone and say go ahead and call the cops. Lets see who would win on that one.
vox veritatis wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair, you'd need to compare apples to apples here. So in your house party scenario above, your guest gets drunk and walks out into the street in front of a car and gets hit on his way home.
You do realize that if you don't let someone leave, you could also be charged with unlawful imprisonment? You could call him a cab, yes...but you can't hold him hostage because you think he tipped a few too many.
Really

Grand Rapids, MI

#20 Jun 3, 2013
Sassy wrote:
Neither was the first one. If you want to be argumentative go ahead, I am not going to argue with you. The facts remain the BOB serves alcohol. People don't act responsible when they have too much. Where was it served? Sorry, the same senario would be held if it happened in my home. In a lawsuit the responsibility is divided up on a percentage basis. It is a fact. The BOB will be sued in the last 2 deaths just as they were in the first one. It is also a known fact that if you own a bar there are heavy liability issues. The bars or stores or homes are always named in the lawsuit when there is a death. Yes that is fact that should someone be injured on my property I would be held liable no matter what. That is why I have No Trespassing signs posted.
<quoted text>
So you are a lawyer now too? And there wasn't a settlement in the first case, the family has come out and denied the settlement. Seems even the local media has a spin on stuff.

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