An honest question

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#102 Sep 16, 2010
Grim2010 wrote:
<quoted text>
You say you have given them a choice. So if they choose at some point to become a Christian, marry a Christian and raise their family in the church and have their children baptized in the church you wouldn't have a problem with that? You would be supportive of your child’s new life style and attend all functions to do with his/her family at a church?
Just one more questions. What if your youngest child wanted to become a Christian and asked you to pray with him at bedtime or before a meal. Would you do that?
I think the way you believe has every thing to do with the way your children believe.
Sure I have discussed other religions with my kids and I think most people have.
If my children decide when they get married and to start a family and to raise their children in a church, then that is their choice and I would have no say about it. Would I support it? I would respect his choice, but I am sure we would have open discussions about it, contrary to the conversations I have had with my parents. Would I attend the functions? Of course I would. Would I engage in prayer? No. Would I be disrespectful at the functions? No. Just as when my dad was on his deathbed being read scripture and followed by prayer, did I object? No. That is his belief. Did I pray? No.

My youngest goes to church with his Aunt and Uncle when he stays there to play with cousin. I think it is good he is getting that information, but I encourage thought and questions. If he asked me to pray with him? I probably would not. Just as I encourage them to do things because it is what they feel is right, I would not want to teach him that form of conformity. Does it mean I don't love him and respect his choice? No. This is teaching of tolerance, of thought, critical thinking and to question everything and do what you believe, not because someone said you have to or pressures you to.

Would you be supportive if one of your children told you they didn't believe anymore? Would you respect their choice? There are countless people that have been disowned or have become black sheep, like me. Not disowned, but definitely a black sheep. My immediate family barely speaks to me anymore. Do you think my youngest sons Aunt and Uncle would appreciate me telling their son of my beliefs? They never asked me if they could bring him to church, they just do. Do you think I would get the same respect back? Would you support your child if they decided to not get married in a church and to raise their children without belief?

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#103 Sep 16, 2010
Flawed wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if they also know how you belittle those who believe? I wonder if they know how your partner treats those who believe? Seeing the way you both act towards those who do believe, I would not expect your children to express a belief to you. I know I would hate for my parents to think of me as a mindless supersticious lemming who cannot think for myself. To you, and others here on this forum, believing in the "fictional" God is the same as believing in the tooth-fairy or easter bunny.
Actually, they have learned about belittling by the kids and teachers in their public school calling them heathens and satan worshippers after finding out their beliefs. My oldest is too afraid to tell his friends he doesn't believe because of the backlash he will get from his peers. My other son was pulled out into the hallway by his arm during an after school activity by his arm, only to be yelled at and questioned why he wasn't praying. Then came the belittling comments from all the christian kids after that.

After that scenario, he decided to start with nasty comments towards believers, and I had to sit him down and explain that not all believers are that way. The fact that we respected their need to pray at a school function, they did not give my son the same respect for his lack of belief. Just as some comments on here directed towards me are belittling, such as yours.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#104 Sep 16, 2010
Flawed wrote:
<quoted text>
I wonder if they also know how you belittle those who believe? I wonder if they know how your partner treats those who believe? Seeing the way you both act towards those who do believe, I would not expect your children to express a belief to you. I know I would hate for my parents to think of me as a mindless supersticious lemming who cannot think for myself. To you, and others here on this forum, believing in the "fictional" God is the same as believing in the tooth-fairy or easter bunny.
I could say them same for you. Do your children know how you treat people that do not totally and exactly agree with you? Do you think your children are afraid to have a thought of their own without demeaning comments directed toward them? How would you react if one of your kids told you they do not believe? Or worse...that they were a democrat?

“Knocking at your Door”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#105 Sep 16, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
If my children decide when they get married and to start a family and to raise their children in a church, then that is their choice and I would have no say about it. Would I support it? I would respect his choice, but I am sure we would have open discussions about it, contrary to the conversations I have had with my parents. Would I attend the functions? Of course I would. Would I engage in prayer? No. Would I be disrespectful at the functions? No. Just as when my dad was on his deathbed being read scripture and followed by prayer, did I object? No. That is his belief. Did I pray? No.
My youngest goes to church with his Aunt and Uncle when he stays there to play with cousin. I think it is good he is getting that information, but I encourage thought and questions. If he asked me to pray with him? I probably would not. Just as I encourage them to do things because it is what they feel is right, I would not want to teach him that form of conformity. Does it mean I don't love him and respect his choice? No. This is teaching of tolerance, of thought, critical thinking and to question everything and do what you believe, not because someone said you have to or pressures you to.
Would you be supportive if one of your children told you they didn't believe anymore? Would you respect their choice? There are countless people that have been disowned or have become black sheep, like me. Not disowned, but definitely a black sheep. My immediate family barely speaks to me anymore. Do you think my youngest sons Aunt and Uncle would appreciate me telling their son of my beliefs? They never asked me if they could bring him to church, they just do. Do you think I would get the same respect back? Would you support your child if they decided to not get married in a church and to raise their children without belief?
Tolerance? That's what you are looking for? I don't see you being very tolerant with people on this thread that do not believe the way you do.

I am and will always be supportive with the decisions my children make, that's part of being a parent.

I guess the only other thing I can think to say right now is I will be sure to include you and your family in my prayers tonight. I believe prayer is a very powerful thing.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#106 Sep 16, 2010
Grim2010 wrote:
<quoted text>
Tolerance? That's what you are looking for? I don't see you being very tolerant with people on this thread that do not believe the way you do.
I am and will always be supportive with the decisions my children make, that's part of being a parent.
I guess the only other thing I can think to say right now is I will be sure to include you and your family in my prayers tonight. I believe prayer is a very powerful thing.
I guess I don't see how I am being intolerant just by asking these questions. I don't think I have said anything to you to try and belittle you, just asking people their thoughts on a touchy subject. Have I said anything to you to try and belittle your beliefs? I am merely trying to understand. We don't need to agree either way. Is calling for peace between religious beliefs intolerant now? I don't see anyone chastising me for intolerance of the muslim religion, just Christianity, and I have said a lot of things about islam on this thread. Am I intolerant because I don't have the same viewpoint and beliefs about Christianity that you do?
Flawed

Grand Rapids, MI

#107 Sep 16, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
I could say them same for you. Do your children know how you treat people that do not totally and exactly agree with you? Do you think your children are afraid to have a thought of their own without demeaning comments directed toward them? How would you react if one of your kids told you they do not believe? Or worse...that they were a democrat?
My Mother is a Democrat and my 2 oldest children are registered Democrats, my youngest is not voting age. Leads to some spirited discussions at times, but hey that is life. I support the fact that they participate in the process. Nice try though.

As to the way I treat people... I tend to echo the way they talk to others on here. I figure that if they talk that way, then they want to be talked to that way. You, Arctic, Xan, and others like to make fun of others for their beliefs, so I figure that you appreciate being talked to in the same manner. I do tolerate differing opinions, asinine statements... Not so much.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#108 Sep 16, 2010
Flawed wrote:
<quoted text>
As to the way I treat people... I tend to echo the way they talk to others on here. I figure that if they talk that way, then they want to be talked to that way. You, Arctic, Xan, and others like to make fun of others for their beliefs, so I figure that you appreciate being talked to in the same manner. I do tolerate differing opinions, asinine statements... Not so much.
Is that why after I have said "all personal issues aside", "I don't want to get into arguments about who is right or who is wrong", "going on the assumption god is a real figure", just trying to come from a philosophical standpoint, you came out attacking me and telling me I had bad intentions? That I am confused? I am really trying to let by gones be by gones here, but I did not initiate any belittling or degragation of beliefs. I was merely asking questions, as I am still trying. If you consider that asinine, who is the one belittling who?

“Knocking at your Door”

Since: Apr 10

Location hidden

#109 Sep 16, 2010
Flawed wrote:
<quoted text>
My Mother is a Democrat and my 2 oldest children are registered Democrats, my youngest is not voting age. Leads to some spirited discussions at times, but hey that is life. I support the fact that they participate in the process. Nice try though.
As to the way I treat people... I tend to echo the way they talk to others on here. I figure that if they talk that way, then they want to be talked to that way. You, Arctic, Xan, and others like to make fun of others for their beliefs, so I figure that you appreciate being talked to in the same manner. I do tolerate differing opinions, asinine statements... Not so much.
LOL I am married to a Democrat and 3 of our kids are Democrats.
Flawed

Grand Rapids, MI

#110 Sep 16, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, they have learned about belittling by the kids and teachers in their public school calling them heathens and satan worshippers after finding out their beliefs. My oldest is too afraid to tell his friends he doesn't believe because of the backlash he will get from his peers. My other son was pulled out into the hallway by his arm during an after school activity by his arm, only to be yelled at and questioned why he wasn't praying. Then came the belittling comments from all the christian kids after that.
After that scenario, he decided to start with nasty comments towards believers, and I had to sit him down and explain that not all believers are that way. The fact that we respected their need to pray at a school function, they did not give my son the same respect for his lack of belief. Just as some comments on here directed towards me are belittling, such as yours.
While I feel for the way your son was treated, as I believe people should be allowed to believe or not believe as they wish, I also believe that you should not try to shove your belief or non-belief down another person's throat.

Asking loaded questions, in which you did demean the Christian belief, is such a wonderful way to express the want for peace. That you don't see it, is just more proof of how deeply ingrained your bias against religion is.
Flawed

Grand Rapids, MI

#111 Sep 16, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
Is that why after I have said "all personal issues aside", "I don't want to get into arguments about who is right or who is wrong", "going on the assumption god is a real figure", just trying to come from a philosophical standpoint, you came out attacking me and telling me I had bad intentions? That I am confused? I am really trying to let by gones be by gones here, but I did not initiate any belittling or degragation of beliefs. I was merely asking questions, as I am still trying. If you consider that asinine, who is the one belittling who?
I wonder why you would think that the asinine comment part was addressed at you specifically? You accuse people of being "Prophet Worshipers" in your loaded "question", yet you do not feel that you did anything wrong? That is what I have a problem with... Sure you are simply asking questions, but you are making sure that you get your digs in while asking them. Then you call the fundamental aspect of the Christian faith a "minor detail", and you don't see where some could consider that belittling?

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#112 Sep 16, 2010
Flawed wrote:
<quoted text>
While I feel for the way your son was treated, as I believe people should be allowed to believe or not believe as they wish, I also believe that you should not try to shove your belief or non-belief down another person's throat.
Asking loaded questions, in which you did demean the Christian belief, is such a wonderful way to express the want for peace. That you don't see it, is just more proof of how deeply ingrained your bias against religion is.
For the millionth time, I was only trying to point out the commanalities between the religions and their God. That the three main religions shared a common God, but broke off into their differing belief sytems after time with their own messangers of God's word. If I called them 'little differences", it was not meant to criticize or demean. It was merely meant to suggest the doctrine, which is no little thing to a believer. I understand this. If it came out the wrong way, or sounded bad, I apologize, but it was not my intenet to get my 'digs' in. I was trying to suggest that maybe it wasn't so much the team one was on, but the common interest they all share. That being God, loving one another, and to maybe stop killing each other over the differences in belief. I did not come out and had no intent on belittling anyone's belief system, that is, until people started in on mine. There were people on here that had great opinions and input. I did not have to agree with them, then gave them my input, none belittling each other. Only the few that cannot let the past rest.

It seems some start out directly in defense mode. That is not what I was after. That is still not what I am after. I am not trying to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat. I just think it is important for people to try to understand differing opinions. Not necessarily to agree, but to see where one is coming from.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#113 Sep 16, 2010
Seriously, I had only good intentions when I started this thread. I only want a better world for my children and grandchildren like any other person. Understanding needs to start somewhere. We don't even need to agree on how to reach it. But the lines of communication need to start opening, and maybe I need to be more careful on how I word things. I am publicly apologizing if I have offended anyone. I don't know about anyone else, but the religious tensions around the world is getting scary and out of control. People should not be dying over which God they believe will take them to eternal bliss, or whichever end one believes in...or doesn't believe in.

Since: Apr 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#114 Sep 16, 2010
Grim. Amarazak has not been out of line with too many comments. Just one that bothered me and none of us is perfect. I've put people down as well.

The problem with the world is mainly that some people feel they are entitled to hurt with words and fists and weapons just because they want to.

“DRILL FOR OIL?, "YES WE CAN"”

Since: Jul 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#115 Sep 16, 2010
I aint got anybody, I hate everybody, and everybody is a republican that believes in God, or you are a complete nimrod.

hows that
lol

“DRILL FOR OIL?, "YES WE CAN"”

Since: Jul 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#116 Sep 16, 2010
correction

I have 12 kids, all super far right, a wife, all republicans.
All goto a Cristian church, and completely disrespect anyones opinion.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#117 Sep 17, 2010
pwner wrote:
Grim. Amarazak has not been out of line with too many comments. Just one that bothered me and none of us is perfect. I've put people down as well.
The problem with the world is mainly that some people feel they are entitled to hurt with words and fists and weapons just because they want to.
I think you're right! All of us are passionate about certain topics, and just because someone disagrees does not make them a bad person.
Are U Sure

Grand Rapids, MI

#118 Sep 17, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
Seriously, I had only good intentions when I started this thread.
Interesting statement but then again it shows how strong satan is in your life to convince you of such a thing.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#119 Sep 17, 2010
Are U Sure wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting statement but then again it shows how strong satan is in your life to convince you of such a thing.
Prove beyond a shadow of a doubt with objective, falsifiable evidence that satan is real or get out.
Are U Sure

Grand Rapids, MI

#120 Sep 17, 2010
Amazarak wrote:
I only want a better world for my children and grandchildren like any other person.
Then teach them about Jesus Christ and the power of prayer. With all due respect Amazarek, I don't think your children & grandchildren will have much of a chance without Him in their lives.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#121 Sep 17, 2010
Are U Sure wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting statement but then again it shows how strong satan is in your life to convince you of such a thing.
Yes, satin is a strong force in my life, from my bedsheets to my panties. Everyone should wear satin panties if they want to experience true comfort.

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