‘Arab Spring’ dreams dying amid violence

Posted in the Grand Rapids Forum

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#1 Jul 26, 2011

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#2 Nov 24, 2012
Some spring from an authoritarian to a dictator. Wonder if BHO is taking notes? Waiting for him to claim new powers. If it weren't for those pesky old dusty pieces of parchment call the Constitution and Bill of Rights damn.

“lover”

Since: Feb 09

Dorr MI

#3 Nov 24, 2012
Shoeless Eluder wrote:
Some spring from an authoritarian to a dictator. Wonder if BHO is taking notes? Waiting for him to claim new powers. If it weren't for those pesky old dusty pieces of parchment call the Constitution and Bill of Rights damn.
They don't mean crap to B.O...

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#4 Nov 25, 2012
Good Day,

And what did Morsi do the other day? Oh...

Steelie

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#5 Nov 25, 2012
Morsi, is just "testing the waters" for Obama.
Obama is watching closely to what his hand picked puppet in Egypt is doing, to see if he can do the same here.
If Morsi succeeds, dont be surprised when the same thing happens here.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#6 Nov 25, 2012
Steelie wrote:
Good Day,
And what did Morsi do the other day? Oh...
Steelie
Seem's the egyptians are getting back, a bit of what they wanted to get rid of....? If i was a female, in some of these countries, i would be looking hard at Europe or here....

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#7 Nov 25, 2012
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Seem's the egyptians are getting back, a bit of what they wanted to get rid of....? If i was a female, in some of these countries, i would be looking hard at Europe or here....
Good Day,

Hey Blue! Indeed. There is an old saying that goes something like - the new tyrant is worse than the old one - as we are seeing unfold in Egypt.

Did you hear what is going on in Saudi Arabia now? Their women are being placed under electronic surveilance. When they reach the border the government sends a text message to their "male guardians" (husband or family member), essentailly turning the country into one giant female prison camp. A woman can only leave the country if their "male guardian" signes what is know as a yellow sheet giving his permission for her to leave the country. Nice, huh...?

During the recent election cycle we heard constantly about the so called (and false) "war on women". American women are perhaps the most free in the world. Yet, where is the outrage from the Left when it comes to the Muslim world? Yet, they continue to support organizations and governments that horribly oppress their female populations. For example, Arab women who live in Isreal or the US are more free than anywhere else in the Arab world. How can this be? How can these politicians scream about contraceptives here yet be virtually silent when it comes womens freedoms (and oppression) in the Middle East for example? And it isn't just about what I posted above or being forced to wear a head covering - those are benign when compared to the practice of female circumcision and the belief that it is O.K. for a husband to beat his wife in order to correct her "behavior". It just does not make any sense...

Steelie
Really

Holland, MI

#8 Nov 25, 2012
Steelie wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Day,
Hey Blue! Indeed. There is an old saying that goes something like - the new tyrant is worse than the old one - as we are seeing unfold in Egypt.
Did you hear what is going on in Saudi Arabia now? Their women are being placed under electronic surveilance. When they reach the border the government sends a text message to their "male guardians" (husband or family member), essentailly turning the country into one giant female prison camp. A woman can only leave the country if their "male guardian" signes what is know as a yellow sheet giving his permission for her to leave the country. Nice, huh...?
During the recent election cycle we heard constantly about the so called (and false) "war on women". American women are perhaps the most free in the world. Yet, where is the outrage from the Left when it comes to the Muslim world? Yet, they continue to support organizations and governments that horribly oppress their female populations. For example, Arab women who live in Isreal or the US are more free than anywhere else in the Arab world. How can this be? How can these politicians scream about contraceptives here yet be virtually silent when it comes womens freedoms (and oppression) in the Middle East for example? And it isn't just about what I posted above or being forced to wear a head covering - those are benign when compared to the practice of female circumcision and the belief that it is O.K. for a husband to beat his wife in order to correct her "behavior". It just does not make any sense...
Steelie
Females in the Arab countries are not allowed to travel alone. That is why single Arab women are forbidden to travel to Mecca for Rahmadan. Years ago when I worked at a travel agency, I had to give that bad news to a young Arab lady who wanted to return for the pilgrimage. She had to apply for a Visa to go and when we were filling out the visa application, we discovered this "condition". She was visibly upset and I couldn't really blame her. Of course, contraceptives are much more important than being free to travel wherever one wishes to, aren't they?

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#9 Nov 25, 2012
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>Seem's the egyptians are getting back, a bit of what they wanted to get rid of....? If i was a female, in some of these countries, i would be looking hard at Europe or here....
But then you approve, of Morsi, and what he is doing then. But you say that you would leave?
So,......let's just get this straight..... You approve of what is going on, but if you were female, then you would leave?
WOW!!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#10 Nov 25, 2012
Steelie, as you know, i have often said, this country and much of the west, is going to have to make an eventual stand, againest Islam and the muslim world....it is a religion, that does not coexist peacefully with other religions and people.....Europe is having many problems now, with allowing so many muslims intotheir countrys....

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#11 Nov 25, 2012
Really wrote:
<quoted text>Females in the Arab countries are not allowed to travel alone. That is why single Arab women are forbidden to travel to Mecca for Rahmadan. Years ago when I worked at a travel agency, I had to give that bad news to a young Arab lady who wanted to return for the pilgrimage. She had to apply for a Visa to go and when we were filling out the visa application, we discovered this "condition". She was visibly upset and I couldn't really blame her. Of course, contraceptives are much more important than being free to travel wherever one wishes to, aren't they?
Good Day,

Indeed. In Hamas controlled Gaza they have a form of morality police that patrol looking for men and women sitting in a parked car together.

Steelie

“Where I came from”

Since: Jan 09

the universe

#12 Nov 25, 2012
Steelie wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Day,
Indeed. In Hamas controlled Gaza they have a form of morality police that patrol looking for men and women sitting in a parked car together.
Steelie
It wont be long and we will have the morality police here, oh they already exist the Department of Health and Human services. its just a different morality. Sebelius is sharpening her claws. Just wait and see. The civilian defense force is soon to be unleashed and "they are fierce" and wear red jackets. Mark it down and remember who said it..

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#13 Nov 25, 2012
Steelie wrote:
<quoted text>
Good Day,
Indeed. In Hamas controlled Gaza they have a form of morality police that patrol looking for men and women sitting in a parked car together.
Steelie
I can vouch, that from 1966-1970....the south suburbs of Chicago had these exact police guys, patroling and looking for couples parked in cars, with steamy windows.....

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#14 Nov 25, 2012
Good Day,
Hey Blue! If I may, I tend to seperate the followers of Mohammed into two factions... Muslims and Islamists. I don't have a problem with Muslims per se, as much as I do with Islamists. When I lived overseas a good number of my friends, business associates and fishing buddies were Muslim. Some of the friendliest and kindest people you could ever meet. Boy did we have some real great times on the beach catching HUGE stingrays and other fare. And the food... any foodie would have been in culinary heaven. There is something special about fresh grilled stingray cooked over lump charcoal with a spicy Sambal sauce and halves of Calimansi lime to squeeze on top! YUM!

But I will agree that eventually things may come to a head and issues will need to be addressed, perhaps sooner rather than later with regard to the Islamists. That is of course, if they don't kill themselves first. It is a little known fact that the one group (religious affiliation) that have historically killled Muslims are... Muslims. And I am picking up a bit of a vibe developing in the Middle East that may lead to a form of religious civil war. The percentages may not be high, but I believe there is a chance that Isreal could end up sitting back and watching the Muslim factions kill one another.(And if presented with the opprotunity - Mossad would certainly fan the flames, which would be expected.) Why do I say this? Well... there have been several reports (if you know where to look) detailing a growing pattern of Muslim on Muslim violence.(Classic Sunni vs. Shia for example.) Only a few days ago Taliban in Pakistan killed perhaps dozens of Shia. "Rebels" in Syria have traded fire with the Kurds. Turkey is moving troops and equipment to its border with Syria. Bad blood is begining to boil over between Hamas and Hezbollah.(Although I think they might team up against Israel in a heartbeat.) Syrian rebels have threatened strikes in Lebanon.(In retaliation for Hezbollah's continued support of the Assad regime.) The Saudis are no friends of the Iranian regime (and could crush them from the air.) Etc., etc., etc.

And correct - according to an Islamist, coexistance is something of an anathema, unless they are collecting the Jizya. But that would happen in so called "moderate" Islamist states.(I use the term moderate very carefully - as they really are not, but when compared to folks like the Boko Haram...) Look what they (Taliban) did to the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan carvings?(I believe they have been rebuilt since then...) And now there are Islamists in Egypt calling for the destruction of the pyramids and the Sphinx! Really?

I tend to think that Islamists are less about religion as they are about absolute power and control, under the auspices of being a "good" Muslim. Just look at the Iranian regime for example. When the Green movement arose to challenge their power, they began to abuse, torture and even kill (I can't forget Neda) their own citizens, many fellow Muslims, to protect their power.

To end on hopefully a positive note... Islam, when properly and legitimately practiced as we in the US (Western countries and even parts of Asia included for example) are generally used to religions behaving themselves (there are always going to be loony tunes like Koresh and Jim Jones), things will be just fine. I will never forget the first time I went to Turkey. I was traveling through the Cappadocian region of central Turkey. I stayed overnight in a town where all the streets were dirt. It had a gritty sort of "Silk Road" feel to it. My room overlooked the largest Mosgue in town which happened to have a HUGE glass front facade. One could see right into the congregation of followers. The sounds from the Minaret at sun down were hauntingly beautiful in reality. After the congregation was released, some joined us at the hotel "cafe" (if you want to call 4 tables a cafe) whlie they drank tea and we sipped on Raki. And yes, CNN was on in the lobby...

Steelie

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#15 Nov 25, 2012
Good Day,
Hey Blue! If I may, I tend to seperate the followers of Mohammed into two factions... Muslims and Islamists. I don't have a problem with Muslims per se, as much as I do with Islamists. When I lived overseas a good number of my friends, business associates and fishing buddies were Muslim. Some of the friendliest and kindest people you could ever meet. Boy did we have some real great times on the beach catching HUGE stingrays and other fare. And the food... any foodie would have been in culinary heaven. There is something special about fresh grilled stingray cooked over lump charcoal with a spicy Sambal sauce and halves of Calimansi lime to squeeze on top! YUM!

But I will agree that eventually things may come to a head and issues will need to be addressed, perhaps sooner rather than later with regard to the Islamists. That is of course, if they don't kill themselves first. It is a little known fact that the one group (religious affiliation) that have historically killled Muslims are... Muslims. And I am picking up a bit of a vibe developing in the Middle East that may lead to a form of religious civil war. The percentages may not be high, but I believe there is a chance that Isreal could end up sitting back and watching the Muslim factions kill one another.(And if presented with the opprotunity - Mossad would certainly fan the flames, which would be expected.) Why do I say this? Well... there have been several reports (if you know where to look) detailing a growing pattern of Muslim on Muslim violence.(Classic Sunni vs. Shia for example.) Only a few days ago Taliban in Pakistan killed perhaps dozens of Shia. "Rebels" in Syria have traded fire with the Kurds. Turkey is moving troops and equipment to its border with Syria. Bad blood is begining to boil over between Hamas and Hezbollah.(Although I think they might team up against Israel in a heartbeat.) Syrian rebels have threatened strikes in Lebanon.(In retaliation for Hezbollah's continued support of the Assad regime.) The Saudis are no friends of the Iranian regime (and could crush them from the air.) Etc., etc., etc.

And correct - according to an Islamist, coexistance is something of an anathema, unless they are collecting the Jizya. But that would happen in so called "moderate" Islamist states.(I use the term moderate very carefully - as they really are not, but when compared to folks like the Boko Haram...) Look what they (Taliban) did to the ancient Buddhas of Bamiyan carvings?(I believe they have been rebuilt since then...) And now there are Islamists in Egypt calling for the destruction of the pyramids and the Sphinx! Really?

I tend to think that Islamists are less about religion as they are about absolute power and control, under the auspices of being a "good" Muslim. Just look at the Iranian regime for example. When the Green movement arose to challenge their power, they began to abuse, torture and even kill (I can't forget Neda) their own citizens, many fellow Muslims, to protect their power.

To end on hopefully a positive note... Islam, when properly and legitimately practiced as we in the US (Western countries and even parts of Asia included for example) are generally used to religions behaving themselves (there are always going to be loony tunes like Koresh and Jim Jones), things will be just fine. I will never forget the first time I went to Turkey. I was traveling through the Cappadocian region of central Turkey. I stayed overnight in a town where all the streets were dirt. It had a gritty sort of "Silk Road" feel to it. My room overlooked the largest Mosgue in town which happened to have a HUGE glass front facade. One could see right into the congregation of followers. The sounds from the Minaret at sun down were hauntingly beautiful in reality. After the congregation was released, some joined us at the hotel "cafe" (if you want to call 4 tables a cafe) whlie they drank tea. And yes, CNN was on in the lobby...

Steelie

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#16 Nov 25, 2012
Go Blue Forever wrote:
<quoted text>I can vouch, that from 1966-1970....the south suburbs of Chicago had these exact police guys, patroling and looking for couples parked in cars, with steamy windows.....
Good Day,

True Blue! But at least they did not risk being put in a hole and have stones thrown at them as a form of execution...

Steelie
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#17 Nov 26, 2012
Sounds to me like we should have supported the original dictators in all of these countries.....

Like we could have done in Iraq!

Since: Mar 09

Grandville, MI

#18 Nov 26, 2012
Still Blaming Bush?
Jeesh bob.
Have you forgotten that congress voted on Iraq?
That's o-k, I wouldnt expect a bong licker like you to remember that.
How about Obama's hand picked leader,.. Morsi in Egypt?
I think thats going well,.... dont you?
Are you going to blame Bush for that too?
Bob

Big Rapids, MI

#19 Nov 27, 2012
Gville Jim wrote:
Still Blaming Bush?
Jeesh bob.
Have you forgotten that congress voted on Iraq?
That's o-k, I wouldnt expect a bong licker like you to remember that.
How about Obama's hand picked leader,.. Morsi in Egypt?
I think thats going well,.... dont you?
Are you going to blame Bush for that too?
Unlike you, the dong licker, I remember how Herr Bush lied to congress to get us into that useless war. I even remember how his hand picked leader has thumbed his nose at this country and how he ran straight to Iran for help and advice. How'd that work for ya?

I'd ask if you had a link to prove that Morsi wasn't elected by popular vote in his own country, but why bother....

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