Republicans to set trap and then spri...
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#21 Mar 11, 2011
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>As opposed to the Ptochocracy which is what many call "Detroit"
By the way, we have been a plutocracy since our inception.
http://www.hermes-press.com/completing.htm
That's not completely incorrect. So if that's the correct way, why fight it? Or, is that the crux of all this from the right, not win the second revolution for the people.

There is a lot of misunderstanding about this country and it's inception. The book A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn does a good job of pointing that all out.
Batch 37 Pain Is Good

Barnesville, OH

#22 Mar 11, 2011
SeenItBefore wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not completely incorrect. So if that's the correct way, why fight it? Or, is that the crux of all this from the right, not win the second revolution for the people.
There is a lot of misunderstanding about this country and it's inception. The book A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn does a good job of pointing that all out.
Yeah, Rob thy neighbor is in the Constitution....... What happened to liberty.......

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Sassy

Flushing, MI

#23 Mar 11, 2011
You three are exactly correct.
Allegan Dan wrote:
SIB/Arctic,
I think you guys are missing the point, and also why I see very little on Topix in way of discussions regarding Snyder. Between elimination of the EITC, and taxing public and private pensions; his budget would usher in the largest tax increase this state has ever seen. Where's all the outrage from the usual suspects?
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#24 Mar 11, 2011
Batch 37 Pain Is Good wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah, Rob thy neighbor is in the Constitution....... What happened to liberty.......
What happened to liberty? It's taken a severe beating from the right but there are still those of us that are trying to preserve it.

“Taz say Hi”

Since: Jan 08

Holland,MI

#25 Mar 12, 2011
I wonder how much money is going to be effectively taken out of the economy by the moves now underway in Wisconsin and Michigan? Inevitably, we will pay higher federal taxes to pay for the "stimulus" programs as the state governments increase taxes and cut pay, removing money from the economy. Combine that with the increasing price for gasoline and we may be in a position of the recovery of the economy not only being stopped, but likely reversed into an even deeper recession.
AbeeGail

Charlotte, MI

#26 Mar 12, 2011
Awww.....my little people, the worst is yet to come.
Are you prepared?
epicfail

Rockford, MI

#27 Mar 12, 2011
Gentle Taz wrote:
I wonder how much money is going to be effectively taken out of the economy by the moves now underway in Wisconsin and Michigan? Inevitably, we will pay higher federal taxes to pay for the "stimulus" programs as the state governments increase taxes and cut pay, removing money from the economy. Combine that with the increasing price for gasoline and we may be in a position of the recovery of the economy not only being stopped, but likely reversed into an even deeper recession.
Gentle Taz just may be the only sane person on topix.

“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#28 Mar 12, 2011
Allegan Dan wrote:
SIB/Arctic,
I think you guys are missing the point, and also why I see very little on Topix in way of discussions regarding Snyder. Between elimination of the EITC, and taxing public and private pensions; his budget would usher in the largest tax increase this state has ever seen. Where's all the outrage from the usual suspects?
The way I see it is this. People grow up believing this country is great and to be patriotic. With that, they believe the people in office believe the same way. They don't. They are not in it for our best interest, they are in it for who makes the most profit. They make more money in overseas investments anyways, that is why they are trying to break the unions and strip the people of their rights to even voice their concerns.

Snyder's plan is to impose 1.7 billion dollars in taxes among the elderly, the poor, and the schools...OUR KIDS! Then to give 1.8 billion away to corporations. Then to bankrupt these towns so he, an ELECTED OFFICIAL, can fire other elected officials and put in his own guys. His buddies, his corporations, the ones who helped him get in office. Somehow, these people still believe that he is on their side. Sorry, but unless you are in Big Business, he is not on your side. We are NOT in this together, Snyder. How can one justify stealing money from children to give to corporations?

Oh, and btw Detroit haters, the reason Detroit is in the condition it is in, is because of Big Business abandoning it in the first place. Now, Snyder wants Big Business in control of your town. How is this a good idea? Our democratic rights are being taken away, and the Constitution lovers are behind this, why? You are all lost in your party line that you think is out for your prosperity. Think again. Do the math. This is not helping our budget...it is making it worse.

Big Business had it's chance to prove they would create jobs in the bailout. They failed. More jobs went overseas, more money went overseas, and BILLIONS went out in bonuses to the people creating the bubble in the first place. They need to be put in jail, we need that money back. Tax these corporations that are evading taxes by P.O. Boxes, get our money back and keep it in the U.S. Leave our poor, elderly and kids alone!!

"When free unions and collective bargaining are forbidden, freedom is lost." -- Ronald Reagan

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

Since: Jun 09

GR

#29 Mar 12, 2011
Arctic49519 wrote:
<quoted text>
The worst thing about this unprecedented power grab is that if it's passed, it would allow "emergency financial managers" appointed by Snyder to unilaterally void union contracts.
This is just the latest in a nationally coordinated effort to destroy unions and the voice of the working guy.
It is nothing short of fascism.
Enough with the teeth-gnashing drama from the pro-union crowd. Fascism? LOL. Only a liberal could spin true democracy into that. What you're seeing, and obviously not liking, is democracy in action - not democrats in action (unless you count the Wisconsin Cheesehead drum -bangers climbing through windows to squat in city hall). The nation of taxpayers and "working guys" spoke, elected conservatives who recognize the corrupt money funneling union scam, and are putting a stop to it ... and I, as one of the real working guys crowd, say it's about time!

As for the "voice of the working guy" being destroyed, you've got it backwards. The real working guy has been footing the bill for overpaid, under-producing, union members and their corrupt union bosses for 50 years - our kids, who've been tragically let-down by a completely failed public school system, have paid with an inadequate education to compete in the real world, while having their little noodles filled with a bunch of liberal hogwash.

In the end, all that's happening here is an end to some folks getting paid for doing nothing or failing at whatever it is they've been doing while their leaders enjoy the fruits and power of everyone else's labors. Welcome to the real world, Arctic - where you actually succeed or fail by your talents and productivity. Fascism? LOL ...

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“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#30 Mar 12, 2011
_Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Enough with the teeth-gnashing drama from the pro-union crowd. Fascism? LOL. Only a liberal could spin true democracy into that. What you're seeing, and obviously not liking, is democracy in action - not democrats in action (unless you count the Wisconsin Cheesehead drum -bangers climbing through windows to squat in city hall). The nation of taxpayers and "working guys" spoke, elected conservatives who recognize the corrupt money funneling union scam, and are putting a stop to it ... and I, as one of the real working guys crowd, say it's about time!
As for the "voice of the working guy" being destroyed, you've got it backwards. The real working guy has been footing the bill for overpaid, under-producing, union members and their corrupt union bosses for 50 years - our kids, who've been tragically let-down by a completely failed public school system, have paid with an inadequate education to compete in the real world, while having their little noodles filled with a bunch of liberal hogwash.
In the end, all that's happening here is an end to some folks getting paid for doing nothing or failing at whatever it is they've been doing while their leaders enjoy the fruits and power of everyone else's labors. Welcome to the real world, Arctic - where you actually succeed or fail by your talents and productivity. Fascism? LOL ...
You couldn't be more ill-informed if you tried. The teachers are destroying our economy? Bwahaha! You're kidding, right? Why don't you try Wall Street is destroying our economy. They get trillions of dollars in welfare money, our TAXPAYER money, and all is fine and dandy. 9trillion dollars is missing from the Fed right now. 9 TRILLION dollars!!! Where do you think that is? Lining the pockets of Wall Street and Big Business, and they want to blame this fiasco on the teachers and unions. Give me a break. Yes, our elderly make SO much money...TOO much money off their pensions that they have been paying into for 30 years or so. Let's tax 'em.

The governor in Florida, doing the same as Snyder, taking money from education and the kids to give to his corporate buddies. He was the CEO in a company that admitted to 40 plus felonies for money fraud under his watch. Snyder is doing the same thing here in Michigan. He is not trying to fix the budget. He is looking out for his buddies to privatize everything for profit. DeVos has been running on a campaign for privatizing schools for years and contributed millions to Snyder to get in office. Now it looks like they will get their wish.

Yes, the teachers and their LAVISH lifestyles are the cause of all this. Those pesky unions giving them rights. Democracy shmocracy. We the people didn't vote correctly, now our lord and master will tell us what is right with his corporate buddies in charge. One person, one vote? Pffft. Your vote no longer matters.

“Hooray for summer!”

Since: Nov 08

Somewhere up north

#31 Mar 12, 2011
_Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Enough with the teeth-gnashing drama from the pro-union crowd. Fascism? LOL. Only a liberal could spin true democracy into that. What you're seeing, and obviously not liking, is democracy in action - not democrats in action (unless you count the Wisconsin Cheesehead drum -bangers climbing through windows to squat in city hall). The nation of taxpayers and "working guys" spoke, elected conservatives who recognize the corrupt money funneling union scam, and are putting a stop to it ... and I, as one of the real working guys crowd, say it's about time!
As for the "voice of the working guy" being destroyed, you've got it backwards. The real working guy has been footing the bill for overpaid, under-producing, union members and their corrupt union bosses for 50 years - our kids, who've been tragically let-down by a completely failed public school system, have paid with an inadequate education to compete in the real world, while having their little noodles filled with a bunch of liberal hogwash.
In the end, all that's happening here is an end to some folks getting paid for doing nothing or failing at whatever it is they've been doing while their leaders enjoy the fruits and power of everyone else's labors. Welcome to the real world, Arctic - where you actually succeed or fail by your talents and productivity. Fascism? LOL ...
Making bills that give a governor the right to take over seats of elected officials is not democracy, no matter how you try to spin it.
Wolf

Grand Rapids, MI

#32 Mar 12, 2011
_Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Enough with the teeth-gnashing drama from the pro-union crowd. Fascism? LOL. Only a liberal could spin true democracy into that. What you're seeing, and obviously not liking, is democracy in action - not democrats in action (unless you count the Wisconsin Cheesehead drum -bangers climbing through windows to squat in city hall). The nation of taxpayers and "working guys" spoke, elected conservatives who recognize the corrupt money funneling union scam, and are putting a stop to it ... and I, as one of the real working guys crowd, say it's about time!
As for the "voice of the working guy" being destroyed, you've got it backwards. The real working guy has been footing the bill for overpaid, under-producing, union members and their corrupt union bosses for 50 years - our kids, who've been tragically let-down by a completely failed public school system, have paid with an inadequate education to compete in the real world, while having their little noodles filled with a bunch of liberal hogwash.
In the end, all that's happening here is an end to some folks getting paid for doing nothing or failing at whatever it is they've been doing while their leaders enjoy the fruits and power of everyone else's labors. Welcome to the real world, Arctic - where you actually succeed or fail by your talents and productivity. Fascism? LOL ...
You sound an awful lot like this guy?

"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.

Your hero?

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#33 Mar 12, 2011
strong woman wrote:
<quoted text>
Making bills that give a governor the right to take over seats of elected officials is not democracy, no matter how you try to spin it.
Yes, Fascism, by definition. Like others have pointed out. Trading democracy for corporatist values. Without a powerful local government structure, it's not democracy. Not even a republic.

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#34 Mar 12, 2011
Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>
You sound an awful lot like this guy?
"We must close union offices, confiscate their money and put their leaders in prison. We must reduce workers salaries and take away their right to strike" - Adolf Hitler, May 2, 1933.
Your hero?
Unions in 1933 were a necessary check and balance to the blind greed of the industrial revolution. Not as much today. Hitler wanting to abolish unions then was a LOT worse than a person being anti union now. Bringing up Hitler is an easy way to discredit people, but has very little substance.

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“think for yourself”

Since: Aug 08

GR

#35 Mar 12, 2011
http://michigandems.com/index.php...

Petition against Snyder's tax budget.

Since: Sep 08

Neon City Oh.

#36 Mar 12, 2011
SeenItBefore wrote:
In Snyder's budget proposal he wants to reduce state funding of schools to balance the sate budget. Sounds reasonable and maybe even good to some. As per usual though there is more behind the curtain. He wants the state to have power to take over the school districts and even local governments. The Republicans want the entire state under their control right down to the local level. And to rid the citizens of their legal rights
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20110223...
http://michigancitizen.com/emergency-manager-...
And the fascist right is dancing in the streets.
SeenItBefore

Jenison, MI

#37 Mar 12, 2011
"While more than one-third of employed people belonged to unions in 1945, union membership fell to 24.1 percent of the U.S. work force in 1979 and to 13.9 percent in 1998."
http://economics.about.com/od/laborinamerica/...

So by 1998 13.9 percent of the American work force was unionized. Someone explain why when that little of the work force was so draining on the economy all these corporations have been off-shoring their operations.

The real reason is because of the "global economy" allowing them to, along with the changes allowing them to offshore their profits to avoid paying taxes on them. All the while the right-wing lemmings have been chanting for lower taxes. To help bring them back? Are you kidding? Not going to happen. They just add that much more to their profits.

"Dues increases, continuing union contributions to political campaigns, and union members' diligent voter-turnout efforts kept unions' political power from ebbing as much as their membership. But court decisions and National Labor Relations Board rulings allowing workers to withhold the portion of their union dues used to back, or oppose, political candidates, undercut unions' influence."
also from http://economics.about.com/od/laborinamerica/...
Also debunks this propaganda that union members are forced to support liberal political parties and their agendas through their dues.

It would be a much better place if the right would make their arguments based on facts rather than fear based propaganda and delusional thinking.

“DRILL FOR OIL?, "YES WE CAN"”

Since: Jul 08

Grand Rapids, MI

#38 Mar 12, 2011
"While more than one-third of employed people belonged to unions in 1945, union membership fell to 24.1 percent"

More evidence they are not needed anymore.

Since: Jun 09

GR

#39 Mar 12, 2011
Amazarak wrote:
<quoted text>
You couldn't be more ill-informed if you tried. The teachers are destroying our economy? Bwahaha! You're kidding, right? Why don't you try Wall Street is destroying our economy. They get trillions of dollars in welfare money, our TAXPAYER money, and all is fine and dandy. 9trillion dollars is missing from the Fed right now. 9 TRILLION dollars!!! Where do you think that is? Lining the pockets of Wall Street and Big Business, and they want to blame this fiasco on the teachers and unions. Give me a break. Yes, our elderly make SO much money...TOO much money off their pensions that they have been paying into for 30 years or so. Let's tax 'em.
The governor in Florida, doing the same as Snyder, taking money from education and the kids to give to his corporate buddies. He was the CEO in a company that admitted to 40 plus felonies for money fraud under his watch. Snyder is doing the same thing here in Michigan. He is not trying to fix the budget. He is looking out for his buddies to privatize everything for profit. DeVos has been running on a campaign for privatizing schools for years and contributed millions to Snyder to get in office. Now it looks like they will get their wish.
Yes, the teachers and their LAVISH lifestyles are the cause of all this. Those pesky unions giving them rights. Democracy shmocracy. We the people didn't vote correctly, now our lord and master will tell us what is right with his corporate buddies in charge. One person, one vote? Pffft. Your vote no longer matters.
Oh, the anger ... oh, the drama ... LOL. YES ... I AM HITLER Reincarnate!! Just like I was a gun-toting racist angry teabagger bible-thumping mob when you liberals got your panties in a wad the last time you didn't get your way. You still haven't offered any convincing proof of any of those wild accusations - not that it stops the left from carrying on with their own version of reality.

Stop putting over-the-top words in other folk's mouths, Amazarak. I never said this was "all the teachers fault" - you just deemed me to have to try and strengthen your weak argument. On the other hand, if you want to go pick up a bucket and start banging on it like the union Cheeseheads in Wisconsin, that's fine by me. It's entertaining as all get out! But what's happening is not an attack on workers and it's not fascism for pity's sake. It's democracy. It's cutting spending and ensuring people are judged on the merit of their effort and productivity, not by the wheeling and dealing of union bosses and politicians. The left just happens not to be getting what they want in this case so they've flung themselves on the floor in full tantrum again.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#40 Mar 12, 2011
_Dingo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, the anger ... oh, the drama ... LOL. YES ... I AM HITLER Reincarnate!! Just like I was a gun-toting racist angry teabagger bible-thumping mob when you liberals got your panties in a wad the last time you didn't get your way. You still haven't offered any convincing proof of any of those wild accusations - not that it stops the left from carrying on with their own version of reality.
Stop putting over-the-top words in other folk's mouths, Amazarak. I never said this was "all the teachers fault" - you just deemed me to have to try and strengthen your weak argument. On the other hand, if you want to go pick up a bucket and start banging on it like the union Cheeseheads in Wisconsin, that's fine by me. It's entertaining as all get out! But what's happening is not an attack on workers and it's not fascism for pity's sake. It's democracy. It's cutting spending and ensuring people are judged on the merit of their effort and productivity, not by the wheeling and dealing of union bosses and politicians. The left just happens not to be getting what they want in this case so they've flung themselves on the floor in full tantrum again.
It is not democracy for one man to be able to overrule local elections and appoint his buddies to make unilateral decisions to break contracts and cut services without any accountability?

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-200422...

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