Teens caught toilet-papering house, boy shot

There are 20 comments on the Oct 12, 2008, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan story titled Teens caught toilet-papering house, boy shot. In it, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan reports that:

A group of four teens were toilet-papering a home early Sunday morning when the home's owner woke up and fired shots.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan.

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Crazy

Portage, MI

#1 Oct 12, 2008
The teens were friends with the son of the dad who shot. Crazy that he was not arrested for just shooting with no threat to his life.
lost in translation

Royal Oak, MI

#2 Oct 12, 2008
Wow...I don't even know what to say about this one...
HappyMom

Greenville, MI

#3 Oct 12, 2008
Why is that crazy? It should not be a crime to protect your propery! There should be no charges filed. If he really felt his home or garage was being broken into, he has the right to defend himself and his propery. It is terrible and tragic that someone was injured over a prank, but that is a risk you take when you are out at night sneaking onto someone elses property. I hope the boy makes a full recovery and kids start thinking twice before vandalizing someones property. I am sure the man feels aweful that he caused harm to this boy. Honestly I cannot say I wouldn't have done the same thing though if it were my home.
I hope all involved come out of this tragedy ok.

“Just be you. ”

Since: May 08

Muskegon,MI

#4 Oct 12, 2008
I was just about to post this myself....

Not so 'crazy' that he wasn't arrested. If you heard what you thought was someone breaking into your home at 1am...wouldn't you do what you had to do to protect you family? You do not have time to check and look at the persons face and ask their name......it was 1am I would have assumed the same thing.

I would do anything to protect my family. It sounds as though he heard, what he thought was, someone attempting to break in. This has NOTHING to do with boys TPing a house. A man was doing what he thought was stopping someone from harming his family...IMO.
freedom1

Grand Rapids, MI

#5 Oct 12, 2008
This is exactly why we need gun control and the man should have been arrested what is this shoot and then ask questions if the person lives?

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dude

Southfield, MI

#6 Oct 12, 2008
You need to learn the law. He has a right to defend himself or another person. But there is never any right to use deadly force to protect propert. Shooting from inside a dwelling to outside is questionable.
HappyMom wrote:
Why is that crazy? It should not be a crime to protect your propery! There should be no charges filed. If he really felt his home or garage was being broken into, he has the right to defend himself and his propery. It is terrible and tragic that someone was injured over a prank, but that is a risk you take when you are out at night sneaking onto someone elses property. I hope the boy makes a full recovery and kids start thinking twice before vandalizing someones property. I am sure the man feels aweful that he caused harm to this boy. Honestly I cannot say I wouldn't have done the same thing though if it were my home.
I hope all involved come out of this tragedy ok.
lost in translation

Royal Oak, MI

#7 Oct 12, 2008
HappyMom wrote:
Why is that crazy? It should not be a crime to protect your propery! There should be no charges filed. If he really felt his home or garage was being broken into, he has the right to defend himself and his propery. It is terrible and tragic that someone was injured over a prank, but that is a risk you take when you are out at night sneaking onto someone elses property. I hope the boy makes a full recovery and kids start thinking twice before vandalizing someones property. I am sure the man feels aweful that he caused harm to this boy. Honestly I cannot say I wouldn't have done the same thing though if it were my home.
I hope all involved come out of this tragedy ok.
Do you know what makes it worse...from what I heard...his own kid was in on it. The guy shot his own kid's friend...I don'tknow if that is true..but if it is...I am sure the man fells like crap about it.
freedom1

Grand Rapids, MI

#8 Oct 12, 2008
baseball wrote:
I was just about to post this myself....
Not so 'crazy' that he wasn't arrested. If you heard what you thought was someone breaking into your home at 1am...wouldn't you do what you had to do to protect you family? You do not have time to check and look at the persons face and ask their name......it was 1am I would have assumed the same thing.
I would do anything to protect my family. It sounds as though he heard, what he thought was, someone attempting to break in. This has NOTHING to do with boys TPing a house. A man was doing what he thought was stopping someone from harming his family...IMO.
I guess I would have called 911 (Police) before I just started shooting!!!!
kzooguy

United States

#10 Oct 12, 2008
You are only allowed to use deadly force if you believe you are in danger of great bodily harm or death. While I am a big proponent of self defense and defense of your property, you can't just shoot someone for being in your yard. In Michigan you can't defend property with deadly force. Sometimes I think you should be able to, but the law says we can't. This home owner was in no danger and may now be in a lot of trouble. He said he thought they were breaking into his garage, not I thought they were going to kill me. The Castle Doctrine probably won't protect him from a civil suit either.
ladydragonfly

Port Huron, MI

#11 Oct 12, 2008
I believe in the right to bear arms. And I believe in the right to protect your property. But let's put this into perspective. The kids were toilet papering the property. They were not breaking and entering with the intent to do harm. This is the reason why extreme liberals want to take away our rights to bear arms. I remember when I was young, the neighbors next door looked out after my family after my dad died while we were still all under 5 yrs. He caught some boys climbing onto our garage so they could see into our bathroom window. He walk out with his shot gun and chased them off our property. Not a shot was fired. It was not necessary. Neither was it necessary this time. But I am sure he is aware of that now. and I will pray for this man as well as the kids.

Since: Oct 07

GR

#12 Oct 12, 2008
Let me tell you libs why I don't ever plan on breaking into somebody's home, or even TP'ing. Because I don't want to be shot! But hey, go ahead and take the guns away..I'd have nothing to fear then.
Btw, call 911? What are there, 2 cops in that whole township? The little runts would be long gone by the time the popo arrived.
From another Mother

Fraser, MI

#14 Oct 12, 2008
Wow, He should have just called 911 before shooting!! I don't believe that having someone breaking into your garage is threatening your body. Yes, kids will be kids and love to teepee and now because this man choose to use his firearm this kid is seriously injured.. Lets think before shooting!!

Since: Sep 08

Saint Charles, IL

#15 Oct 12, 2008
HappyMom wrote:
Why is that crazy? It should not be a crime to protect your propery! There should be no charges filed. If he really felt his home or garage was being broken into, he has the right to defend himself and his propery. It is terrible and tragic that someone was injured over a prank, but that is a risk you take when you are out at night sneaking onto someone elses property. I hope the boy makes a full recovery and kids start thinking twice before vandalizing someones property. I am sure the man feels aweful that he caused harm to this boy. Honestly I cannot say I wouldn't have done the same thing though if it were my home.
I hope all involved come out of this tragedy ok.
This guy is in big trouble, you can't shoot someone for breaking into your garage. I believe in the 2nd Amendment and have a CCW but this is ridiculous.

“Just be you. ”

Since: May 08

Muskegon,MI

#16 Oct 12, 2008
freedom1 wrote:
<quoted text>I guess I would have called 911 (Police) before I just started shooting!!!!
Well if we have the right to protect ourselves and our families, I will do so. Calling 911 sometimes can be TOO late.
ouch

Holland, MI

#17 Oct 12, 2008
kzooguy wrote:
You are only allowed to use deadly force if you believe you are in danger of great bodily harm or death. While I am a big proponent of self defense and defense of your property, you can't just shoot someone for being in your yard. In Michigan you can't defend property with deadly force. Sometimes I think you should be able to, but the law says we can't. This home owner was in no danger and may now be in a lot of trouble. He said he thought they were breaking into his garage, not I thought they were going to kill me. The Castle Doctrine probably won't protect him from a civil suit either.
Bingo. Well said.

Since: Jul 08

Palatine, IL

#19 Oct 12, 2008
The owner was awakened and saw the teen in his back yard. The man thought the teens were breaking into his garage and fired shots using a shotgun.

I'm thinking the owner should face charges on this one;

"saw the teen in his back yard"
"the man thought the teens were breaking into his garage"

From the time he was "awakened" and getting his gun, did he call 911???

Just sounds like the owner was a little "trigger happy" in this case

“Just be you. ”

Since: May 08

Muskegon,MI

#20 Oct 12, 2008
From another Mother wrote:
Wow, He should have just called 911 before shooting!! I don't believe that having someone breaking into your garage is threatening your body. Yes, kids will be kids and love to teepee and now because this man choose to use his firearm this kid is seriously injured.. Lets think before shooting!!
So if you , just for instance, are at home alone with your kids and someone breaks into your garage in the middle of the night, you are saying you would NOT feel the least bit threatened?? You can not be serious.
Your garage is still your home and it is still a bit of a violation....I would most definitely feel threatened.
JJay

Rochester, NY

#21 Oct 12, 2008
I was the tping queen in Cedar Springs back in the day. I remember getting caught once in Pierson and once in G.R., but nobody ever shot at us! This is crazy.

Since: Jul 08

Palatine, IL

#22 Oct 12, 2008
btw, what "noise" indicated to the guy that the teens were breaking into his garage??? last time I checked, toilet paper doesn't make a whole lot of noise

Charges for the homeowner
HappyMom

Greenville, MI

#23 Oct 12, 2008
dude wrote:
You need to learn the law. He has a right to defend himself or another person. But there is never any right to use deadly force to protect propert. Shooting from inside a dwelling to outside is questionable.
<quoted text>
How do you know that he didn't think that there was a threat to his family? At 1am, someone messing around on your property should be considered a threat. Yes, you cannot just shoot someone for stepping over your property line during the day, but at 1 am, someone vandalizing your property is a threat in my opinion.
As for gun control, please, almost all gun related deaths each year are from nonregistered illegally obtained guns. Giving responsible gun owners more hoops to jump through and more laws will not even begin to touch any of our gun violence issues in America. You know what would? Involved parents, dads that didnt take off, actually *gasp* disaplining your children and not letting them sit around playing video games vegitating all day long, teaching kids morals and responsibility, actually attending church and being a decent human. Not gun laws. Gun laws will not change any of America's problems.

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