The war over affordable housing

"I just feel so blessed to live here," renter Stephanie Williams said of the affordable town house where she, her husband and 8-month-old son, Chetan, live in Woodbury.

[JAdams]

Why work hard anymore. The governement will subsidize all your bad chioces. All in the name of keeping the Marxists in power.

[ctk]

"Part of the problem is that they are bad actors to begin with," McCaskey said. "They are low-income because they have reasons for being low-income — such as the inability to be employed."
This is an amazingly ignorant comment. You can be extremely employed and still be low income. Many of us work very, very hard at jobs that serve the public (you probably don't even notice us) yet don't pay well. Some of us are well educated and are working jobs because in this economy they are all we can get. Income is just as often a matter of luck as it is hard work. Just try working in the service industry or in clerical/customer service jobs. You will be exhausted by the end of the day and barely have enough for gas and milk. And if you think we are stuck in these jobs because we didn't go to school, or because we don't want better for ourselves, think again. When you have student loans and want insurance you take what you can get. I work with college grads who are making 20,000 a year and happy to get the job. Trust me they can't pay rent and utilities, gas and school loans on that.
Just remember, there but for the grace of God go you. Very few people are more than one job loss or a serious illness away from struggling to live. Once you hit that slipperly slope you don't know where life will lead you.

[P T Bull]

"Affordable housing" is one of the issues that drives the marxist agenda. Declare something an entitlement, and start taking someone else's money away to pay for it.

Spent the first 10 years of my adult life in apartments till I had the coin for a house. Don't know why others can't do the same.

I liked the line "its the suburb's fault". Libs hate the suburbs--I guess out of envy and ignorance.

Its like there is no such thing as a free market. They feel that the suburbs are full of "rich" people who selfishly don't want to give all their money to the "less fortunate".

Of course the reason people live in the suburbs is they don't like how the cities are managed by libs. As long as there are options, socialism will drive the productive away and attract the un-productive. Hence, cities and suburbs.

[speedy]

P T Bull wrote:

"Affordable housing" is one of the issues that drives the marxist agenda. Declare something an entitlement, and start taking someone else's money away to pay for it.
Spent the first 10 years of my adult life in apartments till I had the coin for a house. Don't know why others can't do the same.
I liked the line "its the suburb's fault". Libs hate the suburbs--I guess out of envy and ignorance.
Its like there is no such thing as a free market. They feel that the suburbs are full of "rich" people who selfishly don't want to give all their money to the "less fortunate".
Of course the reason people live in the suburbs is they don't like how the cities are managed by libs. As long as there are options, socialism will drive the productive away and attract the un-productive. Hence, cities and suburbs.

AMEN!!! That's why we bypassed the "suburbs", and went further out.
lower wages, yup somewhat unless you farm, less crime, oh yes, almost none. family and kids safety, almost a given.

[Brad]

Boo Hoo! Go fly a kite?
Why should suburban homeowners that are upset about having affordable housing next door go fly a kite? We pay our mortgages without the governments help and so should you. If you can't afford to live on your own in my neighborhood, then you're not ready to live in my neighborhood. Why is it my or any other taxpayers fault that you have two kids and only your husband is working and now your taking college courses? Maybe you didn't plan accordingly.

[Ann]

What about those of us that are truly disabled? Just because we are disabled should we be forced to live in cockroach & crime ridden cess pools downtown? I don't think so! What is it too upsetting to you and your children to see someone that is disabled? Sorry, deal with it. That's life. Becoming disabled was not a life choice for me, it was genetic and until it got real bad I worked 50 hrs a week and I still work part-time. But that doesn't mean I should be forced because of my disability and lower income to live in North Mpls or the Phillips neighborhood. Or is it preferable for you that I do, so I can just get picked off faster by all the criminals that live there? Heck, maybe you think the elderly should be forced to live in those cess pools too. How about G'ma with her heart problems or G'Pa with his Alzheimers. I'm sure the little hood on the corner wearing gang colors would be happy to tell G'Pa where he lives just as soon as he clubs him on the head and steals his $5 out of his wallet!

Get a clue to the self-righteous snobs who think their precious suburban neighborhoods are meant only for them! I grew up in one of the far Northern Suburbs and have lived and worked there for a greater share of my life and I have just as much right as any of you do to live there - even on my lower income status. Trust me I paid and do pay my taxes even if it is a much smaller amount than you do now. And think about this too - while you are at work, even if my health prevents me from working that day - I might be the one that see's out my window the disgusting criminal that would want to break into your nice house or hurt your child and I'm the one to stop it because I live in that apt you don't want but I have a phone and can use it to call the Police.

So before you vilify all of us - think about the consequences first. We are all here for a reason and we can all contribute each in our own way - large or small.

[Just Sayin]

Will people start protesting against the city where the lead example family's husband works as a police officer? After all, WalMart always gets blamed for it's employees being on 'working welfare' due to low wages....

[Frustrated]

Brad wrote:

Boo Hoo! Go fly a kite?
Why should suburban homeowners that are upset about having affordable housing next door go fly a kite? We pay our mortgages without the governments help and so should you. If you can't afford to live on your own in my neighborhood, then you're not ready to live in my neighborhood. Why is it my or any other taxpayers fault that you have two kids and only your husband is working and now your taking college courses? Maybe you didn't plan accordingly.

Amen.

[Frustrated]

Ann wrote:

What about those of us that are truly disabled? Just because we are disabled should we be forced to live in cockroach & crime ridden cess pools downtown? I don't think so! What is it too upsetting to you and your children to see someone that is disabled? Sorry, deal with it. That's life. Becoming disabled was not a life choice for me, it was genetic and until it got real bad I worked 50 hrs a week and I still work part-time. But that doesn't mean I should be forced because of my disability and lower income to live in North Mpls or the Phillips neighborhood. Or is it preferable for you that I do, so I can just get picked off faster by all the criminals that live there? Heck, maybe you think the elderly should be forced to live in those cess pools too. How about G'ma with her heart problems or G'Pa with his Alzheimers. I'm sure the little hood on the corner wearing gang colors would be happy to tell G'Pa where he lives just as soon as he clubs him on the head and steals his $5 out of his wallet!
Get a clue to the self-righteous snobs who think their precious suburban neighborhoods are meant only for them! I grew up in one of the far Northern Suburbs and have lived and worked there for a greater share of my life and I have just as much right as any of you do to live there - even on my lower income status. Trust me I paid and do pay my taxes even if it is a much smaller amount than you do now. And think about this too - while you are at work, even if my health prevents me from working that day - I might be the one that see's out my window the disgusting criminal that would want to break into your nice house or hurt your child and I'm the one to stop it because I live in that apt you don't want but I have a phone and can use it to call the Police.
So before you vilify all of us - think about the consequences first. We are all here for a reason and we can all contribute each in our own way - large or small.

If someone works really hard to acquire a level of income - a standard of living - typical of a certain neighborhood and then the city comes in an puts housing with a history of crime problems next to you, that person is justified to be 'mad.'

I worked hard and moved to the city I did so I would not have to deal with the noise, crime, and lack of pride in ownership that traditionally comes with affordable housing.

As the article, mentioned there are a FEW good managers that have snd enforce strict rules (no crime, etc). There are the anomoly. Historically, my property value goes down and the cost to local law enforcement/other city services goes up. My property tax will eventually go up to pay for those extra costs regardless of my property value.

[Condo Guy]

Living downtown, one has a very personal contact with affordable housing; its everywhere and it has been pushed here because the suburbs won't allow it in their promised lands. With all of the advantages to living DT, walking to the theater, museums, library, parks and restaurants why don't more people take advantage of it?
The answer is in this article and it's a brutal, selfish un-Christian attitude reinforced by unresaonable fear. The only thing certain today is that change is coming; and Bob Shaw is laying it out there for all the suburbanites to read. Thank you Bob, I'm looking forward to the rest of your series.

[Worked hard]

My wife and I married at 18. Our choice. We had our children at 19 and 21. Our choice. I worked and my wife took care of the kids. Our choice. We lived in apartments for 7 years, in crappy neighborhoods. Our choice. We lived in a mobile home, in a mobile home park for 3 years. Our choice. We moved 14 times over the years as things got a little better. Our choice. We never accepted, expected or asked for ANY assistance of any kind. Our choice. After 22 years of marriage, we've both finished college (paid for by us). We've built our dream home,$450K in Woodbury, and sent our children off to college (Paid for by us). We started with a monthly income of less than $750 per month and worked hard of the years to better our standing in life.

What I dont understand is why people nowdays want what we have, without having to go through the tough times? You learn from that. My wife and I didnt get to live in a nice neighborhood for over 10 years. I AM TIRED OF THE "ME, NOW, INSTANTLY" ATTITUDE OF TODAYS SOCIETY! No, you dont get to live here or own this or have this until YOU earn it.

[G-Man]

All of you with mortgages also live in "subsidized housing". You all get to write off interest on your mortgages on your income tax returns. Why should people who have worked hard and paid off their homes be subsidizing people with $500,000 mortgages?

It's called a community. We need diversity in our communities so that you can get to know people who are different from you individually, not as a stereotype. That includes racial, ethnic, income and religious diversity.

Even if some people have "pulled themselves up by their own boot straps", they don't realize that the challenges today are much larger than they were 20 or 30 years ago. Wages have not kept pace with inflation. The inflation in real estate has been particularly high, even given the losses in "value" over the past couple of years. How many people used subsidized federal loans to get their education or their first home? All of those are more difficult to get now.

[MO B S]

Regardless of the plight of the subjects, reading the term 'affordable housing' causes my eyes to glaze over, and lessens the likelihood I will have any sympathy. Like the term ' undocumented worker' it is a deliberate obfuscation.
For all but the wealthiest among us, there is 'un-affordable' housing, and most of us would probably take to it over that which we can 'afford'.
I wish the Carlsons well on their long journey, but that they choose to start with 2 kids will make it more difficult for them.

Given the structure/ layout of the online PP, it is not obvious whether this story is presented as an editorial, as opposed to a news item, but it certainly should not be considered something reported, but rather commented:

".....but they could just as well point to Gentry Place Townhomes in Oakdale.
There, police receive an average of two calls per apartment per year — eight times more than the calls per unit in Cedric's Landing, a nearby complex where rents are not subsidized....."

and then:

"...When management is competent, residents aren't all that different from their neighbors...."

I guess it's the management in these places that are causing all the police responses.

[Former Ranger]

Condo Guy wrote:

With all of the advantages to living DT, walking to the theater, museums, library, parks and restaurants why don't more people take advantage of it?

Maybe, just maybe those that live in the suburbs think open spaces, garages, wide streets your kids can play on outweigh the theater and museums. I mean come one, how many times in a week can you go to the museum, library or theater. By the way, the burbs have parks and libraries and resturants and we can walk without having to look over our backs.

[Sharon Mace]

Thank you for writing this article. Affordable housing is not only a challenge in the metro area, but in rural Minnesota as well. In Willmar we just went thru a contentious battle between city council members and also residents of the area in which proposed affordable housing was to be built. I believe decent, clean affordable housing to all residents and is in very short supply across the state. Again, thanks for writing on this subject.

[MO B S]

G-Man wrote:

All of you with mortgages also live in "subsidized housing". You all get to write off interest on your mortgages on your income tax returns. Why should people who have worked hard and paid off their homes be subsidizing people with $500,000 mortgages?
It's called a community. We need diversity in our communities so that you can get to know people who are different from you individually, not as a stereotype. That includes racial, ethnic, income and religious diversity.
Even if some people have "pulled themselves up by their own boot straps", they don't realize that the challenges today are much larger than they were 20 or 30 years ago. Wages have not kept pace with inflation. The inflation in real estate has been particularly high, even given the losses in "value" over the past couple of years. How many people used subsidized federal loans to get their education or their first home? All of those are more difficult to get now.

You are not subsidizing anyone's mortgage: When one pays five dollars in taxes, and gets perhaps $1 return as a deduction, you have not been involved or made any contribution. Because one's income, and wealth is not taxed to confiscation, it's not a subsidy.
I guess you'd see some wisdom of fewer $500.000 houses in the tax base.
Is that because they are inherently bad, or you, like me, don't own one?
As much as this article would like to ignore it, the truth is that owners of the clichéd $500,000 houses contribute to the wealth, and well being of the 'community' to a far greater degree, and receive less benificial return on their taxes than any subsidized/ affordable housing unit.

[Annoyed]

Former Ranger wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe, just maybe those that live in the suburbs think open spaces, garages, wide streets your kids can play on outweigh the theater and museums. I mean come one, how many times in a week can you go to the museum, library or theater. By the way, the burbs have parks and libraries and resturants and we can walk without having to look over our backs.

I love hearing about the snobby suburbanites who feel they always have to be scared in the big big city. I have lived in Mpls. and now St. Paul for my entire life (32 years) and have not once been accosted, harrassed, robbed,or hurt in any way by anyone.
As far as this situation goes, if people are not causing any problems, leave them alone. To the posters who say they did it all by themselves, are you sure? Did you not ever have someone watch your kids while you worked, went to classes, etc? Perhaps your wages were more in line with the costs of living at that time. We own a home, work hard daily, and have all the things we need and most of what we want. However, even with the decent money we make, we struggle. I struggle now with paying for rising food costs and high gas prices. And we have done it ourselves, mostly. Lucky for me, my mother watches my child while we work.

We're all in this together people. Stop the selfishness and work together to make better communities.

[Shirley Bennett]

Former Ranger wrote:

<quoted text>
Maybe, just maybe those that live in the suburbs think open spaces, garages, wide streets your kids can play on outweigh the theater and museums. I mean come one, how many times in a week can you go to the museum, library or theater. By the way, the burbs have parks and libraries and resturants and we can walk without having to look over our backs.

So, Ranger, you don't think young families or recent college grads, or old grannies like me should be able to live in an idyllic, quiet, crime free suburban neighborhood like you do? Unless we have enough moola, I guess. I am sorry, I am a widow on a fixed income and I live in an apartment on the Eastside. My kids are grown and moved away. I work over 40 hours a week in a nursing home laundry. If I wanted something better, you would say I should have planned better? I don't deserve to have places where I can afford the rent? Or only if I sstay in my 'hood?

[Shirley Bennett]

Now Ranger is turning it over in his head..." Shirley Bennett.. Is that a black woman or a white woman...?" A nice old Swedish lady.

[Rebecca B]

I think all of you who think subsidizing housing is a bad thing should stop talking and deal with it. Homelessness needs to get taken care of especially for families with children. Just because a family or person is on welfare doesn;t mean shit. I'm a single mom on welfare and trying to make it the best I can. I'm a full time student and looking to get welfare asap. I will not move my 3 year old duaghter into the drug raided neighborhoods of Minneapolis or St. Paul. I would love more housing in Dakota County southern cities. You would never know I currrently live in Lakeville and am on welfare and am struggling.
So nayone who thinks substized housing is a bad thing..... GET OVER IT AND ACCEPT IT, YOU NEVER KNOW WHEN SOMEONE YOU KNOW COULD END UP ON IT EVEN IF THEY ARE DOING GOOD NOW, LIFE BRINGS DIFFERENT HUMOS AND BUMPS.