DeKleine guilty of killing wife

There are 195 comments on the WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan story from Jul 11, 2008, titled DeKleine guilty of killing wife. In it, WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan reports that:

Ken DeKleine, a former Holland police officer who was accused of killing his estranged wife Lori in January, has been found guilty of first-degree murder by a jury in a Grand Haven courtroom.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WOOD-TV Grand Rapids and Michigan.

Larry

East Lansing, MI

#181 Jul 18, 2008
Lori's parents that is...
Patti

United States

#182 Jul 19, 2008
HI....I am Lori DeKleine’s sister. I would like you to beg to these women on behalf of my sister to please come forward. I have been following these comments over the last week and made myself promise not to get involved. As you see, I just can't do that. In my opinion, that man should never ever ever be able to practice again. I believe that John Roe victimized an abuse victim (Lori and am now learning others as well )and crossed the line in a horrible and extremely unethical way. He should be held accountable for his behavior. I believe that his actions contributed to my sister’s death. Obviously there are many many other factors involved so am not blaming just him for it by any means. Please don’t argue the fine points of whether you agree or disagree with my above opinion of Johns role in this horrible tragedy…..Ken and Ken alone, not John, is the one that actually murdered Lori . The pain my family feels is beyond description. I can’t help but wonder sometimes if my sister had gotten appropriate help – would she still be alive today???? I can't change what happened to my sister now. I sure wished I could. But, I may be able to help others in a similar situation. Abused woman should have the right to expect that when they make that difficult decision to get help that they should not have to worry about being victimized by their counselors too. Counselors need to be held accountable for bad unethical behavior. To you folks that have been victimized by John or any counselor for that matter, please come forward and help prevent this from happening to anyone else. It could mean the difference between life or death.
Patti

United States

#183 Jul 19, 2008
I should add here that I did email the State of Michigan to find what options there are for woman to report this and still remain confidential. I will let you know when I hear back. Larry is correct on the suing thing. Our family has been through enough..... I would certainly like to raise public awareness somehow that this type of behavior by counselors is unacceptable and that there are appriopriate courses of action people can take if they feel they have been victimized by their counselors.
praying for everyone

Holland, MI

#184 Jul 21, 2008
I know it has to be hard for you to sit and read what everyone has to say about this situation. I am glad that you commented and begged for these women to come forward. John deserves some type of punishment for what he did. Poor Lori, having an abusive husband and counselor---what kind of deal is that????
Please get something posted asap where they can report abuse. Thank you!!!
Jane Doe

Detroit, MI

#185 Jul 22, 2008
I work in a rehabilitation office where John ran "groups" that clients were referred to discuss how to handle felonies, substance abuse, and other employment barriers. Mr. Roe did not even inform our office of his license being revoked until it all came out in the media. He was fired immediately. He can obviously not be trusted- even after being "caught" and admitting to police, he still denies that he had a physical relationship with Lori.
Hope

Lafayette, IN

#186 Jul 22, 2008
Well wouldn't that actually be illegal to practice any sort of counceling/therapy without a license? Who is regulating this guy? I mean is he still seeing unsuspecting patients privately in his office to this day? This is just another clear example of how urgently word needs to get out...
Patti my heart goes out to you and your family. I am so sorry. I am very saddened and very angry for you and for all who have suffered in this man's wake. His path of destruction is long and wide and he needs to be held accountable...
MabelSmith

Holland, MI

#187 Jul 22, 2008
Hope wrote:
Well wouldn't that actually be illegal to practice any sort of counceling/therapy without a license? Who is regulating this guy? I mean is he still seeing unsuspecting patients privately in his office to this day? This is just another clear example of how urgently word needs to get out...
Patti my heart goes out to you and your family. I am so sorry. I am very saddened and very angry for you and for all who have suffered in this man's wake. His path of destruction is long and wide and he needs to be held accountable...
I agree, wholeheartedly!!
concerned

Holland, MI

#188 Jul 22, 2008
He did this recently? Shouldn't this information be reported...I would think if his license is suspended and he still practiced that he would be in big trouble> is he now moving to lansing to try and escape here
MabelSmith

Holland, MI

#189 Jul 22, 2008
concerned wrote:
He did this recently? Shouldn't this information be reported...I would think if his license is suspended and he still practiced that he would be in big trouble> is he now moving to lansing to try and escape here
John is moving to Lansing to escape? What a coward, "running away with his tail between his legs". Too bad it wasn't as easy for his victims to do the same. John Roe makes me just ill to my stomach...
** He can run, but he cannot hide, forever **
Simply Questioning

East Lansing, MI

#190 Jul 22, 2008
Why is it that all the last few comments are all so focused on intently on Mr. Roe instead of Ken DeKleine? Men who are abusors often kill their girlfriends lovers and those who have affairs with their wives. It is a known fact. Mr. DeKleine doesn't seem like a person with much of a conscience if he can sleep like a baby after killing his wife and makes a statement that it was liken to watching a stunt in Iraq thus he had to do something to get rid of her. Something is wrong with that picture!

Since: Jul 08

Grand Haven

#191 Jul 23, 2008
Simply Questioning wrote:
Why is it that all the last few comments are all so focused on intently on Mr. Roe instead of Ken DeKleine? Men who are abusors often kill their girlfriends lovers and those who have affairs with their wives. It is a known fact. Mr. DeKleine doesn't seem like a person with much of a conscience if he can sleep like a baby after killing his wife and makes a statement that it was liken to watching a stunt in Iraq thus he had to do something to get rid of her. Something is wrong with that picture!
Several of the people commenting here, including myself, believe that the penalty Roe received for taking advantage of his patients was too light. This is particularly important when you consider what happened to Lori DeKleine.

You are actually talking about an issue that has already been discussed at length... or at least several pages ago on this topic.

In short... the issue of Roe's abuse of position does not excuse IN ANY WAY the actions of Ken DeKleine. However, Roe had complete knowledge of the unstable nature of Ken, and should have known that participating in a sexual relationship with Lori DeKleine would actually be making her situation much worse.

If you are supposed to be CARING for someone, you don't put them in even greater physical danger simply because you can't keep your pants zipped.

Allegations have now surfaced that Roe has some amount of history with crossing the patient/care-giver line, and this justifiably has some people upset.

Roe was a state-licensed psychologist that had his license suspended for some really serious rule-breaking. Those facts are on the public record, and available to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act.

If he hadn't been a professional therapist bound to a code of ethics, it may have been a private, personal matter... but that is NOT the case.

Roe carried out the affair, knowing full-well that it would play right into Ken's fears and paranoia. That doesn't excuse what Ken did, but a psychologist with judgment THAT bad shouldn't really be allowed to start practicing again without some more serious scrutiny of the facts, especially when someone got murdered in part as a result of his professional misconduct.

The focus of the discussion HAS drifted more to Roe's actions as opposed to Ken's, but Ken will be sentenced to life in prison next month. In contrast, John Roe could, in theory, but practicing again in a short period of time. What you are seeing here is VERY justifiable concern about that.
Patti

United States

#192 Jul 24, 2008
slidelock wrote:
<quoted text>
Several of the people commenting here, including myself, believe that the penalty Roe received for taking advantage of his patients was too light. This is particularly important when you consider what happened to Lori DeKleine.
You are actually talking about an issue that has already been discussed at length... or at least several pages ago on this topic.
In short... the issue of Roe's abuse of position does not excuse IN ANY WAY the actions of Ken DeKleine. However, Roe had complete knowledge of the unstable nature of Ken, and should have known that participating in a sexual relationship with Lori DeKleine would actually be making her situation much worse.
If you are supposed to be CARING for someone, you don't put them in even greater physical danger simply because you can't keep your pants zipped.
Allegations have now surfaced that Roe has some amount of history with crossing the patient/care-giver line, and this justifiably has some people upset.
Roe was a state-licensed psychologist that had his license suspended for some really serious rule-breaking. Those facts are on the public record, and available to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act.
If he hadn't been a professional therapist bound to a code of ethics, it may have been a private, personal matter... but that is NOT the case.
Roe carried out the affair, knowing full-well that it would play right into Ken's fears and paranoia. That doesn't excuse what Ken did, but a psychologist with judgment THAT bad shouldn't really be allowed to start practicing again without some more serious scrutiny of the facts, especially when someone got murdered in part as a result of his professional misconduct.
The focus of the discussion HAS drifted more to Roe's actions as opposed to Ken's, but Ken will be sentenced to life in prison next month. In contrast, John Roe could, in theory, but practicing again in a short period of time. What you are seeing here is VERY justifiable concern about that.
I agree with this....as mentioned in my earlier email I indicated "Obviously there are many many other factors involved so am not blaming just him for it by any means. Please don’t argue the fine points of whether you agree or disagree with my above opinion of John’s role in this horrible tragedy…..Ken and Ken alone, not John, is the one that actually murdered Lori." I sat though a horrendous trial. Thank God he will never see the light of day again. The conversation has drifted towards this and am completely distraught over the fact that others have been victimized as well and there seems to be no recourse for these women to come forward or further accountability or consequences for his actions. I do not want to see any other woman fall victim to him or any other inappropriate counselors for that matter.
Simply Questioning

East Lansing, MI

#193 Jul 24, 2008
Patti wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with this....as mentioned in my earlier email I indicated "Obviously there are many many other factors involved so am not blaming just him for it by any means. Please don’t argue the fine points of whether you agree or disagree with my above opinion of John’s role in this horrible tragedy…..Ken and Ken alone, not John, is the one that actually murdered Lori." I sat though a horrendous trial. Thank God he will never see the light of day again. The conversation has drifted towards this and am completely distraught over the fact that others have been victimized as well and there seems to be no recourse for these women to come forward or further accountability or consequences for his actions. I do not want to see any other woman fall victim to him or any other inappropriate counselors for that matter.
Thanks for you honesty and candor. I appreciate your heart and straightforwardness in addressing this. I pray that your entire family, your closed loved ones and all your dear friends who cared for Lori will find continued healing in the coming days, months and years ahead and that justice for all who have been hurt in this situation will be done. Be well...
Patti

United States

#194 Jul 28, 2008
Simply Questioning wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks for you honesty and candor. I appreciate your heart and straightforwardness in addressing this. I pray that your entire family, your closed loved ones and all your dear friends who cared for Lori will find continued healing in the coming days, months and years ahead and that justice for all who have been hurt in this situation will be done. Be well...
Thank you....
Juno

Grand Rapids, MI

#195 Aug 12, 2008
I must comment that I am close to the Roe Family and know for a fact that Lori ingratiated herself into the Roe family by becoming Mrs. Roe's best friend and confidant and their children's "second mother" all awhile having an affair with her husband. All I ever heard from Mrs. Roe is nothing but wonderful things about Lori.(Church going person that just loved her children...etc.) Their entire family was devastated by her death. It is also my understanding that this wasn't Lori's first affair that she had many. If a person suspects that her husband wanted to kill her why would she stoke the fire by having affairs? All parties are guilty in one way or another. Unfortunately, Lori paid the ultimate price. I'm very sorry for that and I am happy Mr. DeKleine was convicted. May peace be with all of the family involved.
concerned

Holland, MI

#196 Aug 14, 2008
He certainly should not be allowed to practice again....Poor Barb, how could she not have known? or maybe she did....
saw it coming

Holland, MI

#197 Aug 14, 2008
it's now August 14, In 4 days he's sentenced.
What amazes me is that the trial was so masterfully orchestrated (Yes! He got first degree.Is everyone happy?) but, nothing was said about all the PPO violations this man had against him,and which Lori reported....seems to me the Holland Police Dept.and those who knew what was going on and (didn't do the right thing) should be charged as accomplices to murder!!
saw it coming

Holland, MI

#198 Aug 14, 2008
john doe wrote:
I am close to the family and i agree that he did an exreamly wrong thing and i am gald that justice wil be served. But the wiered thing is, Ken must have been right about something, Since the death of lori the kids have been doing better than ever. I see them often and i see a burdin lifted of thre shoulders. Maybe the court system should be looked at about the devorce prosses. No i am not blaming the prosses, but it should be looked at. Also to those basing him, Im sorry that god love you.
WHAT? I cannot believe that you can say "those kids are doing better than ever". Are you as sick as Ken? Are you inside their heads? They loved their mother, and were very close to her. They are amazing kids b/c Lori was a fantastic mother!They are both strong and resilient, but "doing better than ever?" What kind of sick-o are you? Someone who believes in ignoring Personal Protection Orders,like our outstanding police department did many times? maybe we should just charge the Holland Police as accomplices to murder!!
The kids should be getting trauma counseling, but maybe Zeeland doesn't have that .. let Focus on the Family or Winning at Home say a few prayers and the kids will be fine? yea right!!
saw it coming

Holland, MI

#199 Aug 14, 2008
Juno wrote:
I must comment that I am close to the Roe Family and know for a fact that Lori ingratiated herself into the Roe family by becoming Mrs. Roe's best friend and confidant and their children's "second mother" all awhile having an affair with her husband. All I ever heard from Mrs. Roe is nothing but wonderful things about Lori.(Church going person that just loved her children...etc.) Their entire family was devastated by her death. It is also my understanding that this wasn't Lori's first affair that she had many. If a person suspects that her husband wanted to kill her why would she stoke the fire by having affairs? All parties are guilty in one way or another. Unfortunately, Lori paid the ultimate price. I'm very sorry for that and I am happy Mr. DeKleine was convicted. May peace be with all of the family involved.
THANK YOU, Juno! Finally, someone with some gracious wisdom.
Nothing is ever as it appears, is it? To those who are ready to condemn someone without really knowing what happened: It was my impression Ken DeKleine was the one on trial for a horrible crime; but it seems some are conducting their own hysterical trial of John Roe. Well, at least Ken had the pleasure (yes, he enjoyed it!) of having a trial.

The Roe family has suffered, too (btw, it’s 2 boys, 1 girl), and YES, John Roe made mistakes (and has said so), but unless you know exactly what he did, hold off on the stoning and lynching.(BTW, Roe closed Lori's case as a client before all this erupted!)

If Lori was alive and could visit this blog, she would be horrified at the viciousness. Her first concern would be for her children, and heaven hope they never read all the
misinformed fomenting, and then it would be for the whole Roe family, for whom she cared deeply.(Barb was there for Lori, Patti). None of us has earned the right to "convict" anyone or incite still more “violence”(for the sake of revenge!) by calling up state agencies, unless we really know the whole story and are qualified to throw the first stone of judgement.

So, Juno, thank you for the reality check. Hopefully others will go back and reread Juno’s level assessment on how Lori desperately maneuvered a way to be with those she trusted to keep her safe. Perhaps we can consider stilling the gossip, because John Roe will not be practicing again--he has not practiced since early February when the state suspended his license for 6 months and one day. Because of Ken's illegal surveillance of John (in addition to planting bugging devices in Lori’s house and in her backpack, stalking her friends, striking up conversations with strangers to fabricate Lori’s instability, and breaking 3 PPO’s -all which the police ignored and the prosecutor steered clear of), Ken was able to bring his distortions and charges to the state board long before he killed Lori. He conjured up all kinds of things and the state, rightfully, censored John (he admitted a dual relationship), yet unquestionably believed the husband –a fine police officer.(Hmm, has the lynching list grown? Has the blame game become contagious? Ken will enjoy that.)

If you must, you can call the newspapers, gather together John Roe’s weak,“victimized”, former clients, and carry accusing signs past his long-time EMPTY office. He has no intention of going through hell to get his license back, just so he can continue “victimizing" clients who come (willingly) to his office, most of them referred by other grateful clients. And that is a shame, because many would gladly tell you, that through skillful therapy he helped them not be victims, but rather to find and use their strength, which is what Lori learned, empowering her, on January 10, 2008, to fight so hard she left ample evidence of her stability and the identity of her killer!
saw it coming

Holland, MI

#200 Aug 14, 2008
Haven’t any of you figured out the REAL reason for the expensive trial? Oh, Ken claimed he was so worried about his dear children, right? So, after killing their mother, he put them through the hell of a trial, including having his son testify! The real reason? Ken had two goals or obsessions: punishing Lori by killing her wasn't enough--he knew it would "kill her again” to ruin the life of the Roe family. That was his second goal, one for which he was willing to go to jail for the rest of his life, TAKE DOWN John Roe and do it publicly (and never mind the obvious hypocrisy in Ken’s cruel manipulation of another woman), because Ken knew that John knew all about HIM -his perversions and his pathologies!

If Ken has access to a computer (his buddy cop friends do and they visit him), he will be gloating with satisfaction while you all lynch John Roe. Isn’t Ken clever? He almost got away with goal #1: making “unstable” Lori “commit suicide”(the staff at their church immediately believed the suicide ploy and took in the grieving widower to comfort him and his motherless children and to begin planning a funeral with him)- that’s how good Ken was; and now you will give him the satisfaction of completing his 2nd goal by doing the stoning of John Roe. Which one of us will pick up the first stone?

John Roe crossed professional and ethical lines and he will not apply for re-licensure. He has been harshly sanctioned, so it is no one’s duty, nor their right, to add the torture of more guilt. He did not contribute to Lori’s death; he did give her the means to find her voice and really live!

I sincerely apologize for sarcasm in my “version” of the telling. The whole story is tragically sad - for Lori’s kids, her parents, Patti, the DeKleines, and also for the Roe family, John and Barb’s children (still having bad dreams), and so many more, who recognized Lori’s weaknesses, yet loved her and admired her strength. Personally, it humbles me, to recognize how depraved and broken I am and how we ALL are in need of a Savior. Everyone near and on the fringes of this atrocity (including ALL police officers, therapists, state administrators, church leaders, bloggers, etc, etc) would benefit from skilled counseling, at some point, to help us heal.

Please, choose compassion over judgement, and allow people time and privacy to work through the pain, and to grapple with their own mistakes and failures. Please, for Bre and Chris…it’s what Lori would want.

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