Grand Haven culling deer at cemetery

[qaqaqa]

http://o-rflix.observer-reporter.com/MediaIte...

Its the water

[tim]

Hey get this I was at the indoor golf simulator on Jackson st. in Grand Haven right by Rycenga. There were probably 10 deer in the parking lot just chillin out. I think there are a lot more deer than 54 in Grand Haven.

[momma]

ScubaSteve wrote:

I am a member of PETA...People For Eating Tastey Animals. You need a good management system to keep a healthy herd, the herd numbered 54 deer earler this year. Now think about if a majority of these deer are Doe, and they have been breed by a buck, a doe will often drop twins. So if nothing is done, you have an out of control and un-healthy population, this is where the diseases start to come into play. Would you rather see the deer walking around with a disease like CWD that mimics Mad Cow and the animals just waste away. This crap happens when there are too many in one spot competeing for food. So those of you who think they should be left alone are the ones who should be ashamed as you would rather see the deer suffer and starve and die a horrible disease ridden death. They are donating the meat to a worthy cause for those who can't afford to live in your little upscale area of Grand Haven. Quit hugging the damn trees and come back to earth and reality.

Finally, a voice of reason. THANK YOU! Some tree hugger group is now on Sarah Palin's back about culling the wolf packs in AK. When they get so large in number, and the food isn't available for them, they attack moose herds, who are hunted for food, go into the population, kill farm animals, ravage their crops, and are even a threat to humans. When are these groups/spokespersons of bleeding hearts going to put humanity before wild animals. Actually, it is better to humanely cull the herds, than let them starve to death or die from/and pass on disease. There are more than enough opportunities to do things for people, Habitat for Humanity, adopt a child in a third world country, donate to St. Jude Hospital, International Aid,++++.....guess those things are not "hip" (dates me?..ha ha)enough or progressive enough to garner face time on TV. Who ISN'T against animal cruelty, but this isn't up there with experimentation, torture, etc. It's the cycle of life kinda thing.

[krtnews]

momma wrote:

<quoted text>
Finally, a voice of reason. THANK YOU! Some tree hugger group is now on Sarah Palin's back about culling the wolf packs in AK. When they get so large in number, and the food isn't available for them, they attack moose herds, who are hunted for food, go into the population, kill farm animals, ravage their crops, and are even a threat to humans. When are these groups/spokespersons of bleeding hearts going to put humanity before wild animals. Actually, it is better to humanely cull the herds, than let them starve to death or die from/and pass on disease. There are more than enough opportunities to do things for people, Habitat for Humanity, adopt a child in a third world country, donate to St. Jude Hospital, International Aid,++++.....guess those things are not "hip" (dates me?..ha ha)enough or progressive enough to garner face time on TV. Who ISN'T against animal cruelty, but this isn't up there with experimentation, torture, etc. It's the cycle of life kinda thing.

I was just talking to my dad yesterday (Sunday) about the problems they are having in WI and the wolves. They are coming down from Canada to find food. He said they've made it all the way down to Milwalkee. The state wants to put something in place for culling, but I think they are having the same issues with "PETA- PEOPLE ENDORCING the TORCHERING of ANIMALS" or some other group. The wolf population has grow so much that they are off the endangered list and now has snowballed out of controll. If these so called animal lovers really cared about the well being they would know that with control we can still keep the population of animals without making them suffer in the process.

[reaper]

Federal Court has just over ruled the reclassification of wolves for Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota. The numbers by the way are estimated at 500 wolves in Michigan, 550 wolves in Wisconsin and 3000 in Minnesota. You can kill a wolves that treatens human life.

[Duke]

This is WRONG! For this council to approve something as dangerous as using sharp shooters with high power guns to shoot deer and to denigrate the dead by shooting them in the cemetery is reprehensible. This is disgusting, immoral and lacks any level of common sense. We deserve better! Don’t kid your self about donating the meat, most of the shelters do not want venison and I will guarantee you the shooters freezers are full!
RECALL, RECALL, RECALL!

[defenders urban wildlife]

Council Members....
John Naser
Geri McCaleb.......must go in Nov.
Lisa Sutterfield must be fired

[Nancy Nagtzaam]

As a deer task force member I participated with an open mind. To date I am still seeing and hearing conflicting information being peddled as science. The reality is that the DNR could not even recommend the number of deer to cull because there are not too many deer. The task force recommended an annual flyover to get a deer census. 54 deer were counted. According to the DNR calculations per square mile this is not too many deer.
The DNR told the city that regarding deer population, there are two things to consider. One is the biological carrying capacity of the land and the other is the social tolerance of the citizens. Nature takes care of the biological portion. If there is not enough food the doe will only have one fawn. It is humans who decide the fate of the deer when considering social tolerance. Sadly this was the case in Grand Haven. It was people who refused to coexist with wildlife and convinced the city to leave science behind. 70 people out of 10,682, the entire population of the city, created an expensive, mismanaged mess with their phone calls about flowers and deer droppings.
The task force was formed to study the situation and make recommendations about whether there was an overpopulation problem and how to deal with it if there was. Many hours were spent listening to members of the DNR and other experts from MSU. After taking all of the information into consideration, the task force voted 3 – 2 to say that at this time there is not enough evidence of a deer population problem. A final report was presented to the city recommending a number of things be done to further study the issue. The city did not bother to give the task force recommendations any time to work.
One recommendation was that deer exclosures be put up to study whether there is a forest undergrowth problem. At the last council meeting an expert mentioned the loss of forest undergrowth. He must not be referring to a forest in the city because currently there is no evidence of a problem there, thus the study being done with deer exclosures. Information in the paper this week about deer populations doubling every year is false. Nature manages things better than that even without natural predators. Never was the DNR able to say that Grand Haven has a problem. Even shifting dunes are a natural phenomenon and they could not provide evidence the deer are the cause. A slightly underweight deer in the middle of winter does not mean the herd is unhealthy and shooting a fawn that just lost its spots is disgusting. One citizen with environmental credentials brought in a portfolio of outdated facts about Kitchel- Lindquist dunes that stated the deer had decimated a type of tree that is not even native to our area. He suggested that all the deer be wiped out so the non-native trees could once again thrive. A fellow environmental scientist pointed out the holes in his report. My point again, is that the evidence was not consistent among experts and if it was, it was not accurate to the point that the task force majority could conclude that there are too many deer.
The data being used to show damage to the ecology was not convincing enough with regard to science, therefore the decision came back to social tolerance. This is and was from the start about gardens. Master gardeners offered to help people plant deer resistant plants at no expense to them and were turned down by the people complaining. Rather than being willing to coexist with wildlife, the 70 callers want to remove from Grand Haven one of the things that make it unique, the wildlife. Tourists do not come here to visit a concrete jungle from which all the wildlife have been squeezed out. Is it right for the city to use the tax dollars of close to 11,000 citizens to placate the wishes of the few who call to complain about the deer? It is shameful that science was sacrificed for politics.

[reaper]

Thank you Nancy for your voice of reason and your participation. This exactly the point that I was trying to make. Annual fly-overs, experts, at what cost and what majority? I know a lot of cities that wish that they had GH extra funds.

"Is it right for the city to use the tax dollars of close to 11,000 citizens to placate the wishes of the few who call to complain about the deer? It is shameful that science was sacrificed for politics"

Her last paragraph sumed it up better than I did in countless posts. Thanks again Nancy.

[josh]

Sounds like an over population of rich pricks to me. Maybe its time to thin the herd.

[Monte]

My mom and grandparents are buried there and its very depressing...

[Dan]

If proper equipment is used then there is not a problem. The use of high powered rifles is not needed. Powder charge and the projectile needs to be monitored. Fragmentation of the projectile has been reviewed. If a projectile that fragments on contact will hold liability issues down to nil. The use of traps will also hold the amount of shooting down to a minimum. An integrated plan needs to be put in place by professionals. Our DNR IS NOT TRAINED IN THESE TACTICS. People who deal with Nuisance wildlife takes those extra steps to find the right path in getting these problems resolved safely.

Duke wrote:

This is WRONG! For this council to approve something as dangerous as using sharp shooters with high power guns to shoot deer and to denigrate the dead by shooting them in the cemetery is reprehensible. This is disgusting, immoral and lacks any level of common sense. We deserve better! Don’t kid your self about donating the meat, most of the shelters do not want venison and I will guarantee you the shooters freezers are full!
RECALL, RECALL, RECALL!

[Go Blue]

My sisters are there now and one told me they dodged several deer on a ride by the beach....hope, at least someone is eating all this free venison....i could go for some right now...