Despite the Threat of Harsh Punishment, Soldier Says 'No' to Deployment in Afghanistan

There are 20 comments on the Chicago.indymedia.org story from Oct 30, 2008, titled Despite the Threat of Harsh Punishment, Soldier Says 'No' to Deployment in Afghanistan. In it, Chicago.indymedia.org reports that:

"I believe war is the crime of our times," Blake Ivey, a specialist in the U.S. Army, said over the phone in a slow, deliberate voice.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Chicago.indymedia.org.

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bly

Schodack Landing, NY

#1 Nov 2, 2008
Good for you bro, stick with your beliefs.
RetiredArmyNCO

Detroit, MI

#2 Nov 2, 2008
Give me a break. He enlisted during wartime, the idea of going to combat never crossed his mind? Now he wants sympathy? He deserves no sympathy. He needs to deploy with his unit or spend time in CCF and await a dishonorable discharge after his sentence.

“Here we go!”

Since: Feb 07

Tampa, FL

#3 Nov 3, 2008
He fraudulantly enlisted, COs are ineligible for enlistment. The only way you get CO status is to have a deeply held religious belief. Because his belief did not start until halfway through his first term of service, he doesn't qualify for CO status.

He needs to move across post to the Stockade at Ft Gordon if he doesn't deploy.
RetiredArmyNCO

Detroit, MI

#4 Nov 3, 2008
Eron wrote:
He fraudulantly enlisted, COs are ineligible for enlistment. The only way you get CO status is to have a deeply held religious belief. Because his belief did not start until halfway through his first term of service, he doesn't qualify for CO status.
He needs to move across post to the Stockade at Ft Gordon if he doesn't deploy.
Cos can still enlist, they must state their CO status as enlistment. Been awhile, but I believe there is an interview they are given at MEPPs before they are allowed to enlist. At least what I remember from my time as a Recruiters from 97-2000.
Incidentally, Sgt York was a CO when he was enlisted. It was after much personal reflection and prayer that he decided that he would go during WWI in the 82nd Infantry Division ( lineage of the 82nd Abn of today). He accomplished a great amount and displayed great courage.

“Here we go!”

Since: Feb 07

Tampa, FL

#5 Nov 3, 2008
I processed a guy six months for enlistment and was told he was ineligible,(Army National Guard Recriter).
RetiredArmyNCO wrote:
<quoted text>
Cos can still enlist, they must state their CO status as enlistment. Been awhile, but I believe there is an interview they are given at MEPPs before they are allowed to enlist. At least what I remember from my time as a Recruiters from 97-2000.
Incidentally, Sgt York was a CO when he was enlisted. It was after much personal reflection and prayer that he decided that he would go during WWI in the 82nd Infantry Division ( lineage of the 82nd Abn of today). He accomplished a great amount and displayed great courage.
RetiredArmyNCO

Detroit, MI

#6 Nov 3, 2008
Eron wrote:
I processed a guy six months for enlistment and was told he was ineligible,(Army National Guard Recriter).
<quoted text>
What was the reason given? The one I had made it in in 98 for RA. He ended up as a rigger.

“Here we go!”

Since: Feb 07

Tampa, FL

#7 Nov 4, 2008
I assume that AR 601-210 has changed in the last 10 years. Or maybe the liasions at MEPS were being lazy that day :) The reason given was that he was ineligible according to the Regs.
RetiredArmyNCO wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the reason given? The one I had made it in in 98 for RA. He ended up as a rigger.
RetiredArmyNCO

Detroit, MI

#8 Nov 4, 2008
Eron wrote:
I assume that AR 601-210 has changed in the last 10 years. Or maybe the liasions at MEPS were being lazy that day :) The reason given was that he was ineligible according to the Regs.
<quoted text>
Odd that would be. But we know how the USAREC works.
How you doing on mission?

“Here we go!”

Since: Feb 07

Tampa, FL

#9 Nov 4, 2008
As a Guard recruiter, I don't work for USAREC, I work for NGB. I'm 2 ahead for the year.
RetiredArmyNCO wrote:
<quoted text>
Odd that would be. But we know how the USAREC works.
How you doing on mission?
No Name

Detroit, MI

#10 Nov 5, 2008
Eron wrote:
As a Guard recruiter, I don't work for USAREC, I work for NGB. I'm 2 ahead for the year.
<quoted text>
I forgot about that. I wonder if USAREC has made the same changes for COs.
Keep up the good work and thanks.
Blake Iveys Mom

Augusta, GA

#11 Nov 6, 2008
Just for your info, Blake's beliefs changed after enlistment. This is what makes him qualified for CO discharge. How many of you have the same beliefs now as you did at 18? My guess is none of you. Did his beliefs change overnight? No. They evolved slowly, little by little. He kept trying to bury these new feelings and was successful for a short time but when they resurfaced they were even stronger than before. You can think whatever you want to about my son, but as his mother, I have never been more proud.
RetiredArmyNCO

Indianapolis, IN

#12 Nov 6, 2008
Blake Iveys Mom wrote:
Just for your info, Blake's beliefs changed after enlistment. This is what makes him qualified for CO discharge. How many of you have the same beliefs now as you did at 18? My guess is none of you. Did his beliefs change overnight? No. They evolved slowly, little by little. He kept trying to bury these new feelings and was successful for a short time but when they resurfaced they were even stronger than before. You can think whatever you want to about my son, but as his mother, I have never been more proud.
Just because he has changed his belief, and wishes CO status, that does not relieve him of his contractual duty. He as a CO is able to deploy. I do not know what his MOS is, but he is able to perform his duty with engaging in combat. If his MOS is Combat Arms, his Command can assign him to duties to keep from engaging in combat. His cooperation will be required.
I have some of the same beliefs I had at 18. I was raised with certain values, and those same values sustain me today. There are beliefs I have now that are stronger and more rigid than those I had before. I have become a more tolerant person as the years pass.
Army Wife

Newport News, VA

#13 Nov 9, 2008
He needs to get out...It is not fair to the others who have to deploy...maybe they should all punk out and claim they have changed their minds...where would our military be then? I am raising a son and I am teaching him to be a man and follow threw with his commitments! So the other men in his unit can risk there lives but he can not. Just get out! We need people who are committed 100%!
RetiredArmyNCO wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because he has changed his belief, and wishes CO status, that does not relieve him of his contractual duty. He as a CO is able to deploy. I do not know what his MOS is, but he is able to perform his duty with engaging in combat. If his MOS is Combat Arms, his Command can assign him to duties to keep from engaging in combat. His cooperation will be required.
I have some of the same beliefs I had at 18. I was raised with certain values, and those same values sustain me today. There are beliefs I have now that are stronger and more rigid than those I had before. I have become a more tolerant person as the years pass.
RetiredArmyNCO

Indianapolis, IN

#14 Nov 9, 2008
Army Wife wrote:
He needs to get out...It is not fair to the others who have to deploy...maybe they should all punk out and claim they have changed their minds...where would our military be then? I am raising a son and I am teaching him to be a man and follow threw with his commitments! So the other men in his unit can risk there lives but he can not. Just get out! We need people who are committed 100%!
<quoted text>
If we allow for them not to deploy, younger and less mature soldiers may choose the same path out of fear. I know of a unit that took their CO with them. He went without a weapon and was placed in an admin position. All went well, he did his admin job, but one night the crap hit the fan, he had a close call and after that he never was a CO again. He fought well and hard. Will all do that? Probably not, but if we can have such people doing the admin and other monotonous chores, we free up men and women to do the other jobs.

There are two options for COs who make the decision after enlistment, either deploy or spend time in confinement.
Blake Iveys Mom

Augusta, GA

#15 Nov 12, 2008
Army Wife, I do not agree with you that you are teaching your son that to "be a man" he has to participate in murdering other human beings. I never tried to force upon my son any of my personal beliefs but taught him to always follow his conscience. I also taught him that doing so would not always be easy and to always make sure the cause was worth the consequence. He reminded me of this when he told me he could no longer be a part of the military. "Mom, a lot of people are in prison because they have blood on their hands. I am willing to go to keep it off of mine. The consequences are definitely worth the cause."
Army Wife

Newport News, VA

#16 Nov 20, 2008
I never stated that in being a man he had to murder people. I was very clear when I stated that I am teaching him to follow threw with his commitments. Your son should of thought about his "feelings" before he enlisted! How dare you insinuate that our military is just murdering people. My husband is on his second tour in Iraq and he has murdered no one but a few of his buddies have been murdered. Again your son just needs to get out...our military needs people who are committed 100% not only when the job is easy.
Blake Iveys Mom

Augusta, GA

#17 Nov 25, 2008
How dare I? Maybe if you saw pictures of innocent children with their arms blown off you would feel differently....or maybe not. Guess you are counting on that retirement check.
disgusted veteran

Brooklyn, NY

#18 Nov 26, 2008
here is one of the many problems still in the military, To many NCO's all to willing to fuck up a mans life. you make a decision to not take life and all of a sudden your a shit bag. it shouldnt be like this anymore. why do you think so many soldiers commit suicide or end up in military prison. they cant make in the army but is that really reason to throw in the stockade, what are we stuck in the 19 and 20th centuries? people are different these days and there for the army needs to re evaluate its policies and procedures for UCMJ. plain and simple.
Army Wife

Newport News, VA

#19 Dec 2, 2008
Oh yes, you read me so perfectly...I am waiting on my husbands retirement check! I have my own career, missy. My husband is in the military because he chooses to be, not because I tell him to. Do not forget our innocent men and women who are dieing every day and our children who suffer while there parents are deployed! Yes, you pegged me right I am waiting on a retirement check with my own career and as my son longs for his father. You and your son are POTHETIC!!! Your son deserves every thing he gets!!!!
Army Wife

Newport News, VA

#20 Dec 2, 2008
I agree there do need to be changes made. They do the whole reintergrating thing but it is done kind of half assed. I still do not feel like you should be able to enlist in the army and then change your mind about combat. Think those things threw before enlisting! It is not fair to the other soldiers.

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