Should state mandate immunizations? New requirements effective in July

May 4, 2011 Full story: Chattanoogan.com 9,583

Immunizations are one of the most efficient and cost-effective ways to protect children against childhood diseases and Tennessee law requires documented immunizations.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7295 May 1, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
In short, if I've read your posts properly, you believe the people are too stupid to conduct their own affairs, so the government must do it for them. We disagree.
You have the right to bear arms.
You have the right to fire off those arms.

Should you have the right to fire off those arms into crowds of people? Isn't it the government infringing on your rights by telling you that doing that is dangerous to everyone else.

Am I advocating a nanny state when I say we should have police that arrest people who fire guns into crowds?

If you choose to not vaccinate your kids, you are endangering THEIR lives _AND_ the lives of everyone else.

It is perfectly reasonable for _EVERYONE ELSE_ to say "We don't want your dangerous kids around our kids."

Choices HAVE consequences.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#7296 May 1, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
You have the right to bear arms.
You have the right to fire off those arms.
Should you have the right to fire off those arms into crowds of people? Isn't it the government infringing on your rights by telling you that doing that is dangerous to everyone else.
Am I advocating a nanny state when I say we should have police that arrest people who fire guns into crowds?
If you choose to not vaccinate your kids, you are endangering THEIR lives _AND_ the lives of everyone else.
It is perfectly reasonable for _EVERYONE ELSE_ to say "We don't want your dangerous kids around our kids."
Choices HAVE consequences.
Who is talking about firing guns into crowds of people? Me? No, that would be you. As I've already covered, your rights end where mine begin, and mine end where yours begin. You immediately assume I will violate someone else's rights; why? Come to think about it, you do a lot of assuming.

Let me give you a little glimpse into a larger picture.

http://www.pwc.com/en_US/us/tax-services-mult...

This is a PDF form discussing global taxation from 5+ years ago. Interesting read, but what does it have to do with us? Well, that's where link 2 comes in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Lisbon

Back when this was being talked about in certain forums, and the news media was widely ignoring it, the "official buzz" was that this was just a treaty agreement and not really finalizing the EU's Constitution, establishing an Oligarchy which passes laws that individual parliaments may discuss and even disagree with, but have no power to alter.

Whether the government has the power to mandate vaccinations or not is a very small issue, but it is not insignificant. Illegal immigration is also a small, but not insignificant, issue which speaks to a larger issue already coming together globally.

Once I kept links to items worthy of note, but in 2008 and 2009 many of those websites went offline. Google "Non-productive Eaters" and look for the connection between that term and the Nazis. I just did that search and through 3 pages didn't see but one possibility for such a connection. However there are other hits that might make one wonder just how trustworthy any government is, or is likely to be in the coming years.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#7297 May 1, 2013
My point is, as it has always been, the sovereignty of the individual over the permitted authority of the government. The government has only the authority we allow it to have, no more, but if we allow it too much authority bad things tend to happen.

Consider how many deaths in Oak Ridge over the past 70 years have been the result of contamination, but were covered up by the government to avoid its own responsibilities. Same government that falsely reported a VC attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, which embroiled us in Vietnam and cost 58,000 men and women on the US side, and God only knows how many South Vietnamese, Viet Cong, Cambodians, Laosians, and Chinese. Same government that kept the US in some conflict for 2/3 of the 20th Century. And you want us to trust this government?

Who would be stupid enough to trust such a government? Certainly not a Free People, but maybe people indoctrinated on the doctrines of interdependency would.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7298 May 1, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
Whether the government has the power to mandate vaccinations or not is a very small issue, but it is not insignificant.
You think it is not significant because your child didn't die of a preventable disease as a result of someone else electing to forgo vaccination.

I suspect if you talk to the parents who have lost children to the resurgence of measel and mumps, you would find that THEY think it's a VERY significant issue.

You are perfectly within your rights to endanger your children. You are not within your rights to endanger EVERYONE ELSE'S children.

And when ignorance leads to dangerous behavior, it is important for SOMEONE to step in and tell the ignorant minority to STOP doing the thing which is endangering the majority.

Refusing to vaccinate your kids endangers the lives of EVERYONE.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7299 May 1, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
My point is, as it has always been, the sovereignty of the individual over the permitted authority of the government. The government has only the authority we allow it to have, no more, but if we allow it too much authority bad things tend to happen.
Consider how many deaths in Oak Ridge over the past 70 years have been the result of contamination, but were covered up by the government to avoid its own responsibilities. Same government that falsely reported a VC attack in the Gulf of Tonkin, which embroiled us in Vietnam and cost 58,000 men and women on the US side, and God only knows how many South Vietnamese, Viet Cong, Cambodians, Laosians, and Chinese. Same government that kept the US in some conflict for 2/3 of the 20th Century. And you want us to trust this government?
Who would be stupid enough to trust such a government? Certainly not a Free People, but maybe people indoctrinated on the doctrines of interdependency would.
This sort of argument is beneath you and you know it.

It's not the "same government".

The medical doctors who are advising the CDC on how to prevent massive outbreaks of preventable diseases are NOT responsible for the war in Vietnam.

This would be like me arguing that "the same citizens who shot all those kids in Newtown are opposing vaccines".

After all, that guy was a citizen. You are a citizen. Same thing.

It's a childish line of argument, and if you can't see that, you've got a bigger problem on your hands than just killing your own children.

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#7300 May 1, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
So, 99% of the people should be isolated so that the 1% who refuse to get vaccinated can make irresponsible choices?
That makes sense to you?
Unfortunately, judging by the level of intelligence that the Scud Trolls possess, on this Forum alone, I would have to say the Gov't. is right to assume that some of the People aren't capable of making their own decisions, in any sane and rational way.
My 2 Cents

Murfreesboro, TN

#7301 May 1, 2013
SexySassySenior wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, judging by the level of intelligence that the Scud Trolls possess, on this Forum alone, I would have to say the Gov't. is right to assume that some of the People aren't capable of making their own decisions, in any sane and rational way.
The government does not have the right to "assume", any way anyhow, assumption is never the right approach.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7302 May 1, 2013
My 2 Cents wrote:
<quoted text>The government does not have the right to "assume", any way anyhow, assumption is never the right approach.
There's no assumption here.

We know what viruses are. We know what vaccines are. We know how vaccines work. We know what happens when people don't get vaccinated.

It's a public safety issue.

Just like putting out fires or arresting criminals.
Hey

Cookeville, TN

#7303 May 1, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
This sort of argument is beneath you and you know it.
It's not the "same government".
The medical doctors who are advising the CDC on how to prevent massive outbreaks of preventable diseases are NOT responsible for the war in Vietnam.
This would be like me arguing that "the same citizens who shot all those kids in Newtown are opposing vaccines".
After all, that guy was a citizen. You are a citizen. Same thing.
It's a childish line of argument, and if you can't see that, you've got a bigger problem on your hands than just killing your own children.
Being that these medical doctors get Big Bucks from Big Pharma to push their wares,And Big Media Gets Big Bucks to push their wares,and Big Government gets Big Bucks to push their wares what do y'all think of that Viox recall that Merck knew was lethal but they made billions and paid a few milllion in fines and no jail time? Who wrote those prescriptions a topix troll? How about Bayers aids contaminated drug? Governrment passed and troll prescribed?Yes? FDA even knew that was contaminated didn't they? Yes they did.
How about CDC's Thorsen and his 'Danish study" and his Fraud and Money laundering trick?This was the big study on the Autism connection to vaccines wasn't it? I heard y'all mention Wakefield but no Thorsen Or that other CDC credible that was indited for child molestation and a little animal fun in the bedroom.TRUST? SURE.
Y'all talked about the mumps and the danger so everyone must get the vaccine.Is this that Merck vaccine you'd be speaking of to save the day? The one that is up on fraud charges, the fraud of their Mumps vaccine?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7304 May 1, 2013
Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
Being that these medical doctors get Big Bucks from Big Pharma to push their wares,And Big Media Gets Big Bucks to push their wares,and Big Government gets Big Bucks to push their wares what do y'all think of that Viox recall that Merck knew was lethal but they made billions and paid a few milllion in fines and no jail time? Who wrote those prescriptions a topix troll? How about Bayers aids contaminated drug? Governrment passed and troll prescribed?Yes? FDA even knew that was contaminated didn't they? Yes they did.
How about CDC's Thorsen and his 'Danish study" and his Fraud and Money laundering trick?This was the big study on the Autism connection to vaccines wasn't it? I heard y'all mention Wakefield but no Thorsen Or that other CDC credible that was indited for child molestation and a little animal fun in the bedroom.TRUST? SURE.
Y'all talked about the mumps and the danger so everyone must get the vaccine.Is this that Merck vaccine you'd be speaking of to save the day? The one that is up on fraud charges, the fraud of their Mumps vaccine?
Your argument fails on a number of levels, but most significantly it fails in this way:

You argue that doctors you don't know are getting money you can't demonstrate they are getting from groups you can't name and that because of this money, you can't trust their opinion despite the fact that the results are verifiable.

However, you give Wakefield a pass despite the fact that we KNOW he invented the autism scare specifically to sell his vaccine. We KNOW he faked his research. We KNOW he did it for money. And we KNOW he doesn't have any results to demonstrate his claim.

You so have 6-7 UNKNOWNS in your argument and no valid reasoning, but you accept it with blind faith.

Meanwhile the argument with NO unknowns is rejected because...

CRICKETS.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#7305 May 1, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no assumption here.
We know what viruses are. We know what vaccines are. We know how vaccines work. We know what happens when people don't get vaccinated.
It's a public safety issue.
Just like putting out fires or arresting criminals.
Your response, in the context of the post you're responding to, seems a bit ambiguous, so if I may clarify; who is this "We" you're referring to?

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7306 May 1, 2013
Done my homework wrote:
<quoted text>
Your response, in the context of the post you're responding to, seems a bit ambiguous, so if I may clarify; who is this "We" you're referring to?
Educated people.

Educated people know how vaccines work and how herd immunity works. Uneducated people don't.

It's evident in this very thread where the poster says that kids who already got vaccinated don't need to fear the fact that other kids aren't getting vaccinated.

This shows a clear ignorance of how vaccines and herd immunity works.

I hate to have to keep beating a dead horse, but this is simply a matter of public safety.

The government is not going to take your kid and inject them against your will. However, if you choose not to adhere to the laws of the land, then you must suffer the consequences of that choice.

In this case, refusing to vaccinate your kids means you need to home school them in order to protect the health and safety of the children of responsible parents.
Hey

Cookeville, TN

#7307 May 1, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Your argument fails on a number of levels, but most significantly it fails in this way:
You argue that doctors you don't know are getting money you can't demonstrate they are getting from groups you can't name and that because of this money, you can't trust their opinion despite the fact that the results are verifiable.
However, you give Wakefield a pass despite the fact that we KNOW he invented the autism scare specifically to sell his vaccine. We KNOW he faked his research. We KNOW he did it for money. And we KNOW he doesn't have any results to demonstrate his claim.
You so have 6-7 UNKNOWNS in your argument and no valid reasoning, but you accept it with blind faith.
Meanwhile the argument with NO unknowns is rejected because...
CRICKETS.
I frankly haven't seen your back ups.You sound like a mouth piece for big Pharma your self.
Just google Doctors get big kick backs from drug companies.
I put sites up before about the difference between GMOs and other crops and you just continue to say they have been created in the same manner for years and years and that's not the truth.
However you seem to be giving Thorsen a pass and this crook stole a $ million plus of that which was for the Autism study.That study was the one that was used to keep giving the pass, on saying there was no link to Autism and vaccines.No problem here.
You seem to be the one accepting on blind faith for you just keep repeating what MSM and Big Govt.tells you.

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#7308 May 1, 2013
Hey wrote:
<quoted text>
I frankly haven't seen your back ups.You sound like a mouth piece for big Pharma your self.
Just google Doctors get big kick backs from drug companies.
You simply don't have enough information to even understand what you're talking about.

If some doctor gets a kick back for prescribing drug A over the generic version of it, that has NOTHING to do with vaccines.

The majority of medical professionals dealing with creating vaccines are not doctors who are dealing with patients and prescribing medicine. They are medical researchers who are trying to save lives.

And they've been succeeding for decades. Right up until Wakefield started getting kids killed over nothing.
I put sites up before about the difference between GMOs and other crops and you just continue to say they have been created in the same manner for years and years and that's not the truth.
Of course it is. You are trying to say that ALL crops fit into one giant category. Then, you need to accept that fact that every single crop we have is the result of hundreds if not thousands of years of genetic modification by humans.

There are no wild cows. There are is no wild corn. Wild apple trees produce inedible fruit.

Everything in the supermarket is the result of humans messing with the natural order to produce what we want over what would survive normally.
However you seem to be giving Thorsen a pass and this crook stole a $ million plus of that which was for the Autism study.That study was the one that was used to keep giving the pass, on saying there was no link to Autism and vaccines.No problem here.
You seem to be the one accepting on blind faith for you just keep repeating what MSM and Big Govt.tells you.
I don't know who Thorsen is, but I can tell you it's not _ONE_ study that shows no link between autism and vaccines. It's HUNDREDS AND HUNDREDS of studies from all over the world.

There are retroactive studies evaluating existing databases that demonstrate that the levels of autism are EXACTLY the same among the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.

There are mechanism studies that demonstrate that there is no mechanism by which it could occur.

There are genetic studies that demonstrate an underlying genetic condition behind autism which can not be retroactively introduced into a fetus by a vaccine that occurs three years later.

There have been studies about claims about mercury.
There have been studies about claims about acid.
There have been studies about claims about the number of vaccines and how quickly they come.

There have been tons and tons and tons of studies.

The reason I bring up ONE study from Wakefield is that it's the study that STARTED this unfounded rumor using fraudulent data.

BILLIONS of dollars have been wasted proving the Wakefield lied, and yet here you are still trying to convince parents that they shouldn't vaccinate their children which has, to date, caused hundreds of deaths in the US alone.
Done my homework

Oak Ridge, TN

#7309 May 2, 2013
It seems to me, Nuggin, that you're pretty fixated on Wakefield. And Hey is correct saying you "sound" like a mouthpiece for Big Pharma. BTW {oh the fixation this is going to bring, but what the hey} do you know what the Koine Greek word for Sorcery is?

Going back to my question about your use of "we", it is obvious that you should have paid more attention in English class when antecedents were taught.

As for this government not being that government, you are so wrong. However, since I doubt you make visits to thomas.gov on a regular basis, how would you even know? If you've been hearing the word "Radicalization", or any of its derivatives, this goes back to a bill that was killed in committee in 2007, just prior to the first of the "bank failures". Actually, it is the same government, and it has been learning by its mistakes.

Back to forced vaccinations, when Bill Gates addressed TED {video on YouTube}, he makes a statement that population could be reduced by 15%{if I recall properly} due to improved vaccination policies in the African Union. Pray tell, what did he mean by that?
Hey

Cookeville, TN

#7310 May 2, 2013
You don't know who Thorsen is?Well that's not good enough. Just ask the Google Guy.
As far as the HERD immunity BS the Google Guy has the skinny on that too.
Russell
Blaylock Md"One of the GOOD LIES of the vaccine program is the concept of HERD IMMUNITY.In fact,vaccines for most Americans declined to non protective levels within 5 to 10 years of the vaccines.This means that for the vast majority of Americans as well as otherin the developed world,herd immunity doesn't exist and hasn't for over 60 years."
http://rense.com/general18/mcc.htm
http://www.whale.to/a/herd.html
My 2 Cents

Murfreesboro, TN

#7311 May 2, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no assumption here.
We know what viruses are. We know what vaccines are. We know how vaccines work. We know what happens when people don't get vaccinated.
It's a public safety issue.
Just like putting out fires or arresting criminals.
I was responding to the post made by SSS, not you!
Hey

Cookeville, TN

#7312 May 2, 2013
As far as the so called breeding that's gone on for ever and ever the GMOs do not fall into that category.
John Boy and Jim Bob did not whip up those GMOs with a GENE GUN in the barn with Grampa.
A GMO is a laboratory process where genes from the DNA of one species are extracted and artificially forced into the genes of an unrelated plant or animal.
The forign genes may come from bacteria,viruses,insects,anima ls,or even humans.
Because living organisms have natural barriers to protect themselves against the introduction of DNA from differet species,genetic engineers must force DNA from one organism into another.
These methods include
1.Using virus or bacteria to infect animal or plant cells with the new DNA.
2.DNA into tiny metal pellets and firing it with a gene gun into the cell. Yes John Boy was doing this I remenber now.
3.Injecting the new DNA into fertilized eggs with a very fine needle.
4.Using electric shocks to create holes in the membrane covering sperm,and then forcing the new DNA into the sperm through these holes.
I wonder about that natural barrier that wants to keep this type of thing from happening?
Oh never mind that.Monsanto knows best.
fskjs

Savannah, TN

#7313 May 2, 2013
Jack's

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#7314 May 2, 2013
My 2 Cents wrote:
<quoted text>I was responding to the post made by SSS, not you!
What post of mine were you responding to??? I very seldom even post on this Thread and I went back 3 pages before I found where I had posted and it was just a little joke to lighten the mood.

So, what are you talking about? Some of you People are badly confused and you're confusing everybody else, too!

If you're going to respond to a post at least 3 or more pages back, made 2 or 3 days ago, you really need to use the "REPLY" option, so somebody will know who and what you are commenting to and about! Geez!

I STILL don't know what Post of mine, so you say, that you're responding to nor what I said in it!...SMH...

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