Supporters, foes of collective-bargai...

Supporters, foes of collective-bargaining bill hash it out

There are 69 comments on the DispatchPolitics story from Mar 3, 2011, titled Supporters, foes of collective-bargaining bill hash it out. In it, DispatchPolitics reports that:

Mark Hicks, of Glouster, Ohio, shows his support for Senate Bill 5 outside the Statehouse as people file inside for the Senate's vote on the legislation.

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TryAgain

Findlay, OH

#64 Mar 3, 2011
tired of the uninformed wrote:
<quoted text>
did you really just claim that she, as a teacher, only works 7.5 hours a day and then only on the 180 days the students are in the school? Salaried employees, exempt from overtime, are paid more than the typical pay per hour BECAUSE they never work the hours they are supposedly being paid for. 7.5 hours a day, good grief, get educated about the educators you people keep trying to tear down. Do you have any teacher friends or a teacher you can get an honest answer from? Ask them how many hours over the 7.5 per day they are paid for that they typically work in a day, week, or month. Unions are being presented as an easy target by the Republicans for people angry about the recession, I certainly get that, but this bill goes way too far.
Working as a teacher should not be equitable with volunteering. Some of you seem to imply that everyone in the private sector hates their jobs but they put up with it because they want paid the big bucks. But everyone in a public job better love their job because they should not be expected to get paid much? Teachers are not paid by taxpayers, they are paid by the government. Your idea that teachers work for you is no more valid than a teacher claiming that the people on the oil rigs work for them because they buy the gas that keeps them employed. Wake up, you pay taxes that run the government, teachers buy gas, clothing, food, etc, that run your corporations. Unless you printed the money, it did not start with you.
Some of you claim taxpayers should get a vote on how this one small part of your taxes get spent. What about all of your other tax money? Do you even know where it all goes? Nope, as I mentioned before, Republicans have set up unions with a big old target on them so taxpayers can take all of their taxation frustrations out where the Republicans want them to.
And another thing, we should all stop blaming this on the Republicans because not even all of the elected Republicans agree with what has been done...some on a smaller scale of just parts, but others disagree with very large aspects of it. But let the Republican "majority" keep claiming this is what the people want. The referendum vote will probably squash this bill anyway and Republicans are certainly going to have a harder time come next election.
The claims that unions should not be able to support politics with union dues? But it is okay for corporations to do so? If they have all that money laying around, why are all of you private sector employees not questioning why that money is being spent on politicians and not on lowering prices or raising your pay and benefits?
Changing a 27 year old bill in a few weeks is wrong. No one can argue that. Change is needed, no one can argue that either. But this is ridiculous.
While she may work more than 7.5 hrs per day, do you really think she works many days beyond the 180 (177 including the snow days). You're assuming private sector salaried folks don't work more than 7.5 hrs per day. Just like teachers, some private sector folks work more than 7.5, some more, and some less (if you include internet surfing, etc.)

It's strange that you don't address Ms. Brigner's gross misrepresentation of her current pay and lying about not getting a raise. She has recieved a raise every year that she has taught...something very few private sector folks can say.
Joe

Columbus, OH

#65 Mar 3, 2011
Tea baggers are the absolute lowest scum of society. The blind leading the blind. I'd like to see just one that wasn't over the age of 60, already retired, and 40 pounds over weight. Thank you for killing Ohio and doing the bidding of greedy corporations worldwide. Complete knobs
back again

Groveport, OH

#66 Mar 3, 2011
TryAgain wrote:
<quoted text>
While she may work more than 7.5 hrs per day, do you really think she works many days beyond the 180 (177 including the snow days). You're assuming private sector salaried folks don't work more than 7.5 hrs per day. Just like teachers, some private sector folks work more than 7.5, some more, and some less (if you include internet surfing, etc.)
It's strange that you don't address Ms. Brigner's gross misrepresentation of her current pay and lying about not getting a raise. She has recieved a raise every year that she has taught...something very few private sector folks can say.
I don't assume private sector salaried folks don't work more, in fact I was one relatively recently. I switched to do something I always wanted to do, and that is to teach. Firsthand knowledge of teaching hours in my first few years is that I typically spend at least an hour after school, after my 7.5 hours, grading papers. This is in addition to several hours over the weekend making sure everything is prepared for the following week. That translates into about 8 extra hours a week, that is one additional day for every 5, or 36 days per 180. That reduces the earlier assertion that she makes $29+ per hour to $24+, a pretty significant difference and much more realistic for a job that now requires teachers to be highly qualified, the easiest method of which is to attain a Masters Degree.
Unfortunately, I completely agree that it is quite irritating when teachers claim to not have gotten raises, or taken pay freezes, when the steps continue. However, I thought I read recently that several districts had gone as far as to take a step freeze as well, meaning they really did not get raises. I did not address this mainly because I was not addressing what she said, but rather what the other responder said about her and he did not mention that. I was actually complaining the claiming no raises thing to my wife before I saw your post.
As my final comment of my post showed, I certainly see that change is needed. Introduce law to make those changes, but to unilaterally say that unions are at fault for the budget deficit, as the senator that introduced the bill is doing, is shortsighted and inflammatory at best. Nowhere in this bill does it say that the taxpayer will be paying less taxes, only that less of the governments budget will be going towards it's employees...or should I say the employees that are not making the decisions. I mean $20 mill to upgrade his house? If I remember correctly, that would have been about 20% of the YEARLY operating budget of the 7th largest school district in Ohio....on his house.
To those who are saying that you will get these senators in the next elections. Yeah, so they retire a few years early to well paid "consulting" jobs at the corporations they are currently benefitting, not really much of a penalty. Why do you think the Republicans who said they would vote no don't care how upset some people are at their change to a yes?
Again, something must be done, this just isn't it. Not when ever some Republican senators are saying it goes either too far, or way too far. I just wish our government acted more like a democracy between the parties and not simply shifting in power with each election as the people continue to be failed by both parties time and time again. Remember, union members are "the people" too.
Gander

Bryan, OH

#67 Mar 3, 2011
Golden Goose wrote:
Franklin Delano Roosevelt, the Patron Saint of the Democrat Party, said that public employees do not belong in unions.
Government employees are rarely fired or disciplined due to protections from Civil Service Laws. Government never goes out of business, no matter how poorly they perform. To add that collective bargaining at the expense of tax payers is too much.
State government is not the National Football League. The sooner public employees awake to that reality the better. The Golden Goose of State Government is dead because of the Unions (who killed the Goose to get the golden eggs).
The government workers who deserve to be fired or disciplined are not because management lacks the willpower (and sometimes, knowledge, and more often, the support of their supervisors who don't want the hassle or the publicity)to follow the process. Same as in the private sector. You need to document that there is a problem. It is called due process, a basic principal in our country. And the higher up in the public management structure that you get, the more dependent your promotion is on politics, not management ability. Same as in the private sector - didn't see the banks or the auto makers go out of business did you?

No public service is not the National Football League - its alot dirtier; for some, more dangerous; and much less popular. Yet, most public professionals don't make what their private counterparts make, let alone a football player. And so now they are to be treated as second class citizens? Denied the right to speak to their elected officials?
RightWingPropaga nda

Columbus, OH

#68 Mar 3, 2011
Dangerous Unions wrote:
The unions have turned to a pure socialist agenda. If you are in a union, research and find out about this.
With less than 7% of US workers in unions, the unions want socialist agendas so they can be part of the new culture.
It is sad that the police, fire and teachers unions have been duped into thinking this is a social justice issue. It is not!
You are a liar and a propaganda nut case.
You know nothing about unions.
And may not even know who your real daddy is...
And you know what the call folks with out daddys???

If that shoe fits you Scum Bag it's because of your lies
Sweet Dreams Nut Case
Gander

Bryan, OH

#69 Mar 3, 2011
Sarah wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Been There, quit acting like a spoiled child. The money is gone, cuts need to be made and threatening the tax payers that have provided you with your salary and benefits is NOT helping your cause. And would it kill you to write a proper sentence? You're making your English teacher look bad.
I agree the comment was out of line, but it funny how many of us say "the money is gone" but we all have computers, internet, and cells phones - probably cable or satellite, too - along with other "necessities"
Race to the bottom

Naperville, IL

#70 Mar 3, 2011
Wow just wow wrote:
The Tea Party members quoted in this article are:
a retired RN for the federal government
a retired university employee
Did the reporter even think to ask them about their pensions? It is because of these folks that we are in this mess in the first place. Its Ok for them to take much more in pension than they ever contributed, but the current employees (whose contributions pay them) are the problem. Wow, just wow! Hippocrites all!
Don't worry. These folks' little gravy train will be running off the rails in a few years, if the government starts reducing penion and health benefits for retirees the way the private sector has. Oh well, maybe their private-sector tea party cronies will join them in protest when their entitlements are on the line.
If I dont laugh i cry

Springfield, OH

#71 Mar 4, 2011
CSD wrote:
<quoted text>
No industry "requires" a union. Some are just dragged down to the bottom with one. And soon your "industry" will be gone as well.
That's too bad...there won't be anyone around to educate your children and grandchildren.

Then they will be asking the government to help them!
Joe

Bowling Green, OH

#72 Mar 4, 2011
Sarah wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey Been There, quit acting like a spoiled child. The money is gone, cuts need to be made and threatening the tax payers that have provided you with your salary and benefits is NOT helping your cause. And would it kill you to write a proper sentence? You're making your English teacher look bad.
Your first sentence is gramatically incorrect.

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