A boy's costume does not impose dogma...

A boy's costume does not impose dogma by force : The Morning Ca...

There are 14 comments on the The Morning Call story from Feb 23, 2007, titled A boy's costume does not impose dogma by force : The Morning Ca.... In it, The Morning Call reports that:

A boy's costume does not impose dogma by force Paul Carpenter There is nothing so evil, so clearly un-American, as the imposition of a particular religious dogma by force.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Morning Call.

Sunny Simmons Steincamp

United States

#1 Feb 27, 2007
Jeepers, please tell me this complaint was not filed by any of my fellow Pagans (Wiccans, etc.) Whether you believe in any sort of religious faith, or whether you are a solid atheist, I can't possibly imagine what good this sort of prohibition does for anyone involved.

“Believe in yourself. ”

Since: Jan 07

Montrose Co

#2 Feb 27, 2007
Of course it was not a pagan that ran to a teacher.
It's a childish attempt to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Anything the ADF gets involved with has to bring religion money or Evangelical Ideals to the forefront. It's frankly pathetic to see some ten year old kid and his poor excuse for a mother(in it for notoriety and cash)play the martyrs on the ADF bandwagon. It was in poor taste for the kid to dress as Jesus for Halloween. The Mother set up the costume knowing it would start something. She's frankly a true idiot for placing her ten year old in this position.

“Cool Logic - Burning Passion”

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#3 Feb 28, 2007
While I can understand the merits of your point, Tian-mon. I tend to disagree. Think about what you just said and apply it to those who deliberatly prick the public's conscience but come at it from another angle. Say something in a size PETA, or Pro-Choicers, or the whacko church from Kansas that embarrasses itself and besmirches the name of Christ every time they crawl out of their own a(?)holes.

Think about all of the instances where your argument can be applied to groups or individuals from the opposite extremes. Do you apply balance and fairness in your criticism there as well?

“Cool Logic - Burning Passion”

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#4 Feb 28, 2007
here we go again...

****= what you do when you (t)rick your finger...

really, how childish!
Amy

Philadelphia, PA

#5 Feb 28, 2007
Why is this so controversial? I don't hear Christians complaining about witches or devils? As a Christian I choose not to celebrate Halloween but I don't tell others that they can't. As a religious holiday however it should not be celebrated in the government schools (just like Christian, Jewish, Muslem, Wiccan, or any other religious holidays are not celebrated)
layla

Dayton, OH

#6 Feb 28, 2007
I know this sound's sad, but I really am starting to dislike the people of the christian faith, at least the crazy one's around here. I have met only one that I have found no hypocritcal, hate filled view's for other's, and he is a mennonite and a wonderful person. I am having some serious problems with my husband's family who consider themselves good christian's. They talk Garbage behind our backs and lash out in anger at anyone/thing that is different than themselve's. and then when something is said directly to them instead of behind their backs,( and nicely too) thay call us evil. But its ok to trash other's because they said it is " human nature" . Personally I am confused, why it is ok for christian folk to hide behind the robes of their faith when it is convienant for them to do so.And say that their actions are ok.And others to be damned to hell? I am really getting tired of this all. I am also getting tired of the Good folk coming on our website telling us their opinion's, although their have been very few who come here just asking to understand, and I welcome them. Most have been here just to vent their anger directly to people who have done them no harm. I do not like them, Sam I am! And I am feeling distraught because these feeling in general are not of me.Some insight there Tian mon?

“Believe in yourself. ”

Since: Jan 07

Montrose Co

#7 Feb 28, 2007
StaberDearth wrote:
While I can understand the merits of your point, Tian-mon. I tend to disagree. Think about what you just said and apply it to those who deliberatly prick the public's conscience but come at it from another angle. Say something in a size PETA, or Pro-Choicers, or the whacko church from Kansas that embarrasses itself and besmirches the name of Christ every time they crawl out of their own a(?)holes.
Think about all of the instances where your argument can be applied to groups or individuals from the opposite extremes. Do you apply balance and fairness in your criticism there as well?
The practice goes across the board. Children being used to propagate liability issues in some superficial litigation. One mother sues another mother because her child called her fat. It's using the law to fill the pocket. Recently there was a suit against automobile child seats not fitting a particular 1 year old. The fact that the child was over fed not withstanding. A school being sued because a child was caught with drugs and arrested without "Parental permission". It's quite insane.
I personally have issues with Abortion but would not sue a woman or indeed interfere with her right to use such extremes. The power mongering right and left insure that these suits get media attention and a following of people that have nothing better to do with their lives. ACLU PETA ADF ADL they all play the litigation for fame game.

“Believe in yourself. ”

Since: Jan 07

Montrose Co

#8 Feb 28, 2007
layla wrote:
I know this sound's sad, but I really am starting to dislike the people of the christian faith, at least the crazy one's around here. I have met only one that I have found no hypocritcal, hate filled view's for other's, and he is a mennonite and a wonderful person. I am having some serious problems with my husband's family who consider themselves good christian's. They talk Garbage behind our backs and lash out in anger at anyone/thing that is different than themselve's. and then when something is said directly to them instead of behind their backs,( and nicely too) thay call us evil. But its ok to trash other's because they said it is " human nature" . Personally I am confused, why it is ok for christian folk to hide behind the robes of their faith when it is convienant for them to do so.And say that their actions are ok.And others to be damned to hell? I am really getting tired of this all. I am also getting tired of the Good folk coming on our website telling us their opinion's, although their have been very few who come here just asking to understand, and I welcome them. Most have been here just to vent their anger directly to people who have done them no harm. I do not like them, Sam I am! And I am feeling distraught because these feeling in general are not of me.Some insight there Tian mon?
I honestly don't believe they know what they are talking about. I believe it's the spouting of ignorance. Most Christians fear us because their book tells them to. They have no idea of our ways or our laws and many of them become interested once they learn our laws. Interested enough to listen and drop the preconceived notions.
One of my favorite times of the week is our weekly studies session with a local Rabbi and a Catholic Priest. We study history and theology together with our up and coming Sains. The Rabbi speaks to other Rabbis and gets new books and scrolls pretty regularly. We go as far back in time as is possible with our history. The Priest sneaks over for study. His deices would never understand. I have a Wiccan priestess and a Navajo Shaman that join in as well.
We do not agree on Religious Ideology or beliefs but we do love history and have agreed to disagree on faith.
We witches know too well, the price for judgment and anger. We know these debts are paid now and not later. My Catholic counterpart has witnessed the prices we pay and it has humbled him.
You are allowed disdain in the absurdities and judgments of others, you are allowed to point out their falsehood. You are not allowed to lash out against them in anger.
In all things, be blessed.

Since: Feb 07

Falls Church, VA

#9 Feb 28, 2007
Well, to point... I have to agree with Paul Carpenter, they simply need to lighten up. My family, my children, and most of my friends are Wiccan. My children go to public schools, and some of there friends are LDS, Catholic, Jewish, etc etc etc... I would never consider other children's display or expression of religious conviction to be any more than an excercise of their right to do so... and as Paul said "This was not a tyrannical teacher or principal forcing students to recite a sectarian prayer" .. or a parent.

I see his issue here, that if they have gone to one extreme in the case of the Jesus costume it could only lead to other extremes, and I would suspect that - as some schools already do - that Halloween customes and celebrations just won't happen at school for a lot of those children. I am sure however, it will be after banning other elements first... yes, I could definitely see a school banning witch costumes, devil costumes, shoot... maybe even SpongeBob... LOL

"A 10-year-old boy is not likely to pressure others to accept his religious dogma just because he wears a Jesus costume on Halloween" - Agreed. Even I am offended for the boy. Their not allowing him to wear the costume was ridiculous. <sigh> But what do you really expect?

“Pagan Pirates Unite!”

Since: Jan 07

Monte Vista

#10 Feb 28, 2007
tangible wrote:
Well, to point... I have to agree with Paul Carpenter, they simply need to lighten up. My family, my children, and most of my friends are Wiccan. My children go to public schools, and some of there friends are LDS, Catholic, Jewish, etc etc etc... I would never consider other children's display or expression of religious conviction to be any more than an excercise of their right to do so... and as Paul said "This was not a tyrannical teacher or principal forcing students to recite a sectarian prayer" .. or a parent.
I see his issue here, that if they have gone to one extreme in the case of the Jesus costume it could only lead to other extremes, and I would suspect that - as some schools already do - that Halloween customes and celebrations just won't happen at school for a lot of those children. I am sure however, it will be after banning other elements first... yes, I could definitely see a school banning witch costumes, devil costumes, shoot... maybe even SpongeBob... LOL
"A 10-year-old boy is not likely to pressure others to accept his religious dogma just because he wears a Jesus costume on Halloween" - Agreed. Even I am offended for the boy. Their not allowing him to wear the costume was ridiculous. <sigh> But what do you really expect?
You know, it's really stupid to scream over a jesus costume when they let kids dress up like satan. It's the same faith, they all belong to christianity. For some poor kid to catch hel l for dressing as jesus is pretty stupid. The worst of it all is the Evangelical law freaks to make a cause out of it. Now this kid has a stigma to live through, he'll be called Jesus freak and become all messed up mentaly by his peers. I feel for the kid and I believe the Christian Right should be hunted down and muted. They are pulling this crap to control our country and screwing up kids on their ladder to hell.

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#11 Feb 28, 2007
tangible wrote:
Well, to point... I have to agree with Paul Carpenter, they simply need to lighten up. My family, my children, and most of my friends are Wiccan. My children go to public schools, and some of there friends are LDS, Catholic, Jewish, etc etc etc... I would never consider other children's display or expression of religious conviction to be any more than an excercise of their right to do so... and as Paul said "This was not a tyrannical teacher or principal forcing students to recite a sectarian prayer" .. or a parent.
I see his issue here, that if they have gone to one extreme in the case of the Jesus costume it could only lead to other extremes, and I would suspect that - as some schools already do - that Halloween customes and celebrations just won't happen at school for a lot of those children. I am sure however, it will be after banning other elements first... yes, I could definitely see a school banning witch costumes, devil costumes, shoot... maybe even SpongeBob... LOL
"A 10-year-old boy is not likely to pressure others to accept his religious dogma just because he wears a Jesus costume on Halloween" - Agreed. Even I am offended for the boy. Their not allowing him to wear the costume was ridiculous. <sigh> But what do you really expect?
Why is wearing a Jeseus costume anymore extreme than wearing a witch or devil costume?

“Just an Old Goat”

Since: Feb 07

United States

#12 Feb 28, 2007
Tian_mon wrote:
<quoted text>
The practice goes across the board. Children being used to propagate liability issues in some superficial litigation. One mother sues another mother because her child called her fat. It's using the law to fill the pocket. Recently there was a suit against automobile child seats not fitting a particular 1 year old. The fact that the child was over fed not withstanding. A school being sued because a child was caught with drugs and arrested without "Parental permission". It's quite insane.
I personally have issues with Abortion but would not sue a woman or indeed interfere with her right to use such extremes. The power mongering right and left insure that these suits get media attention and a following of people that have nothing better to do with their lives. ACLU PETA ADF ADL they all play the litigation for fame game.
Children are one the great triggers used by trial lawyers. A good trial lawyer knows these triggers very well, they are the things which turn jury members into idiots. If you wish to sway a jury to your way of thinking use a child, or a minority victim, or a grossly victimized disabled person, these are the best triggers, families in grief are used quite extensively as well. It amazes me how these juries are duped so easily into awarding multimillion dollar settlements simply because a child is involved. Good thing I'm not on the jury, I know the truth is the lawyers get half of the settlement and leave the victims to pay all the costs out of their half, the lawyers are the only winners.
Clear

Runnemede, NJ

#13 Apr 23, 2007
oh my

Since: Feb 07

Limerick, Ireland

#14 Apr 24, 2007
pengdog99 wrote:
<quoted text>Children are one the great triggers used by trial lawyers. A good trial lawyer knows these triggers very well, they are the things which turn jury members into idiots. If you wish to sway a jury to your way of thinking use a child, or a minority victim, or a grossly victimized disabled person, these are the best triggers, families in grief are used quite extensively as well. It amazes me how these juries are duped so easily into awarding multimillion dollar settlements simply because a child is involved. Good thing I'm not on the jury, I know the truth is the lawyers get half of the settlement and leave the victims to pay all the costs out of their half, the lawyers are the only winners.
Wow thats becoming so very true even over here and in the rest of Europe! People are turning to lawsuits as an answer to everything! I feel for the victims of sexual abuse and think that the State (Ireland) should compensate them for the State's mess! I also think the Catholic church should fess up! It messed up big time and allowed people to grow up with the wrong impressions of what loving your fellow human being is!

I've met some wonderful priests and lay people but even they feel that the Vatican has messed up! And now we have these people taking lawsuits to extremes and suing for everything and anything.

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