Judge Dismisses Class-Action Lawsuit ...

Judge Dismisses Class-Action Lawsuit Against Arnold's Red Light Cameras

There are 21 comments on the River Front Times story from Sep 6, 2012, titled Judge Dismisses Class-Action Lawsuit Against Arnold's Red Light Cameras. In it, River Front Times reports that:

Traffic cameras have survived yet another class-action lawsuit in Missouri. Last week a Jefferson County judge rejected a suit that aimed to prohibit the use of red light cameras in Arnold, which became the first Missouri city to deploy the cameras in August 2005.

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Red Rocker

Saint Louis, MO

#1 Sep 6, 2012
Now what Matt?? Yet another defeat....
Nikki McMillan

Florissant, MO

#2 Sep 7, 2012
Red Rocker wrote:
Now what Matt?? Yet another defeat....
I can only speak from personal experience. I received a red light camera ticket for making an illegal right turn into Handyman Hardware off Lindbergh at Trotterway.

I viewed the video online and realized I did do such a thing. I really thought I came to a complete stop, but, didn't happen. I realize there must be many people who feel they have been wrongly ticketed. But in my case it was my fault entirely so I paid the ticket and hopefully learned a lesson.

Whether or not 'cameras' are justifiable in making streets safer, I really haven't decided. No doubt some are just to make money for the municipality they are in and I can see why it upsets people.

For myself, regardless of the legality of red light cameras I made the error. The intersection is posted with a sign about the camera including a notice about making a complete stop before making a right turn into the parking lot. That being so,it was a violation of the law and I alone was/am responsible for the $100 fine as the consequence of my action.
camera shy

De Soto, MO

#3 Sep 25, 2012
the next time your trashcan lid isn't secure,maybe a camera or drone catches you and you then just take the consequence of your action. me, i see our daily lifes filled with this intrution for merely cash funding city idiots.
Nikki McMillan

Florissant, MO

#4 Sep 26, 2012
camera shy wrote:
the next time your trashcan lid isn't secure,maybe a camera or drone catches you and you then just take the consequence of your action. me, i see our daily lifes filled with this intrution for merely cash funding city idiots.
Perhaps some people consider it an intrusion and obviously there is the money factor. However, for myself, those facts do not relieve me of personal responsibility. I did commit the traffic infraction and if there had been an officer there he might very well have given me a ticket. I strongly believe everyone should take responsibility for their behavior/actions regardless of the "Big Brother" watching issue.

Either one is guilty or not. If you believe you aren't then you also have the personal responsibility of standing up for that belief. Dodging matters, pointing fingers, blaming others, etc. has never been may manner of living my life.
Re Tired

Yates Center, KS

#6 Sep 26, 2012
Looks like LADY JUSTICE closed the one eye that was open on this one .What happened to the TAX PAYING VOTERS in ARNOLD on this one ? Why not put it on the ballot and let the CITIZEN TAX PAYERS DECIDE . I wonder what LAW you will break ?
CHUCK

Florissant, MO

#7 Sep 27, 2012
Of course citizen taxpayers would easily vote this down. WHY? Because they feel entitled to get away with what ever they choose to do, right or wrong. Red light cameras catch the violators. Red light cameras do not have a direct positive affect to benefit the voter, so why would the majority supported. This country and especially the younger generation does not know the meaning of respect or responsibility.
Why do we NEED cameras at banks, why of course, the obvious. But today they are all over, grocery stores, gas stations, in our school hallways, inside front and back of school buses, on the outside of school buses, and on or homes, they are all over. WHY? Because our society has changed and not for the better.
I for one am a law abiding citizen and I am glad there are cameras. It means someone is looking out for me as a private citizen. I have nothing to hide as long as I obey the rules. Because of those who do not obey the rules, is the reason why there are so many cameras. Don't break the rules - you do not pay a fine. It is easier than trying to boycott someplace to get your message across.
Nikki McMillan

Florissant, MO

#8 Sep 27, 2012
Re Tired wrote:
Looks like LADY JUSTICE closed the one eye that was open on this one .What happened to the TAX PAYING VOTERS in ARNOLD on this one ? Why not put it on the ballot and let the CITIZEN TAX PAYERS DECIDE . I wonder what LAW you will break ?
The issue is really, IMO moot. If you do not break the law you do not pay the penalty.

There is a video of every violation caught by a red light camera which proves or disproves the citation is warranted. True the person who the car is registered to may not be the one who committed the offense. Even so, there are no points assigned to one's license and if someone else was driving your vehicle they should "man up" and pay the fine. If they won't, then the person who is victimized by that individual's lack of character should make sure he or she doesn't get use of the vehicle again. In some cases, maybe even take steps to force the real violater to pay up.

If it is one of your kids who committed the violation don't you want to know they are driving recklessly? I certainly do.
Punitive Cash Cow

Arnold, MO

#9 Sep 27, 2012
If the right turn poses no threat to life or limb, there is no reason to impose a ticket. No harm, no foul.
Baloney

Florissant, MO

#10 Sep 27, 2012
Punitive Cash Cow wrote:
If the right turn poses no threat to life or limb, there is no reason to impose a ticket. No harm, no foul.
You just summed up what is wrong in a lot of people of today's society. The old if you get away with it it's OK nonsense. That kind of attitude is what teaches kids to cheat on tests, lie about stuff and allows supposedly adults get away with breaking laws, cheating on their taxes (and spouses) and lots of other forms of bad behavior. Until some people stop using excuses and whining about getting caught when they do something society is going to continue on the down hill slide it has been on for some time now.
And the issue isn't just right turns, it mostly concerns drivers blowing the light when it's already turned red. That happens a lot and no one can deny it. It just happened a couple of days ago at Vail and New Halls Ferry to some kids coming from school. Fortunately no one was seriously injured but they could have been.
Personally I like the idea of putting all traffic lights on the three or five second delay so everyone has a red light for that period of time.
And I don't want to hear that pathetic excuse of if you don't get through the light the guy behind you will run over you, what BS. That doesn't wash! All I ever hear from the red light camera tickets getters are excuses not reasons. I have no doubt those complainers are the same ones who "have a couple" after work and just know they can drive. Anyway you slice it it's BALONEY!
You ever hear of honesty, or ethics or personal responsibility?
Re Tired

Yates Center, KS

#11 Sep 27, 2012
As stated in my previous blog the justice system and any other govt agency is in this game for the POWER & MONEY it can get. It has nothing to do with our SAFETY HEALTH & WELFARE like they preach.If the AMERICAN PEOPLE believe this story as most due then I feel sorry for you. WAKE UP AMERICA before it's TOO LATE & HURRY UP as the clock is ticking.
Which has

Florissant, MO

#12 Sep 27, 2012
Re Tired wrote:
As stated in my previous blog the justice system and any other govt agency is in this game for the POWER & MONEY it can get. It has nothing to do with our SAFETY HEALTH & WELFARE like they preach.If the AMERICAN PEOPLE believe this story as most due then I feel sorry for you. WAKE UP AMERICA before it's TOO LATE & HURRY UP as the clock is ticking.
...absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. How do you expect a city government to remain solvent and get things done without revenue?

One of the issues is the ethical responsibility of everyone and anyone. Either you obey the law or you don't. Either you take responsibility for your actions or you don't. Simple.

Sounds more like you are an alarmist promoting his or her own self interest. Since you are so certain the red light cameras/enforcement do nothing to make the streets safer you must have the documentation to prove it. Please be kind enough to post it for all our benefit.

If you can't back up your claims with factual data one has to assume you are just another complainer. And Lord knows there are more than enough of them in the world already.

And while you are doing that, please supply the info where prisons are making money for government agencies? How about schools? I could list more, but that would I'm sure be pointless. Sure there are individuals who collect salaries and benefits they don't deserve that's a reality. Still those are specifics and not generalities as you would have people believe.
PCC

United States

#13 Sep 27, 2012
Punitive Cash Cow wrote:
If the right turn poses no threat to life or limb, there is no reason to impose a ticket. No harm, no foul.
Here is what you do. Get your state representative and senator lined up to go in and change RSMO 304.281.1. Much is cut out to get to the Red Light Part. The idea is that it is state law and you must stop when facing a steady red light. Get caught violating that and cause an accident. Then it goes from being an infraction to some legal trouble.

Rules for traffic where controlled by light signals--right turn on red light, when--violations, penalty.
304.281. 1. Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:

(1) Green indication
(2) Steady yellow indication
(3) Steady red indication

(a) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection at a clearly marked stop line but, if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in paragraph (b);

(b) The driver of a vehicle which is stopped as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to a red signal, may cautiously enter the intersection to make a right turn but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection, except that the state highways and transportation commission with reference to an intersection involving a state highway, and local authorities with reference to an intersection involving other highways under their jurisdiction, may prohibit any such right turn against a red signal at any intersection where safety conditions so require, said prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof;

flomo man

De Soto, MO

#14 Sep 27, 2012
tell me again people when the trust factor in your town is so low,why would you trust this government,local or not,with any more power.let the people vote for what they want,one way or another.
Punitive Cash Cow

Arnold, MO

#15 Sep 27, 2012
Have a cop write the ticket then. The red light cameras are not erected with safety in mind. They do not make the intersections safer, they do not prevent drivers from running red lights and they do nothing to prevent accidents. They are designed to make money for the town they are located in. They don't save any money on salaries.
money partners

United States

#16 Sep 27, 2012
Punitive Cash Cow wrote:
Have a cop write the ticket then. The red light cameras are not erected with safety in mind. They do not make the intersections safer, they do not prevent drivers from running red lights and they do nothing to prevent accidents. They are designed to make money for the town they are located in. They don't save any money on salaries.
And don't forget, the company that installs the camera gets half the money.
Speed cameras are next.
A right turn on

Florissant, MO

#17 Sep 28, 2012
PCC wrote:
<quoted text>
Here is what you do. Get your state representative and senator lined up to go in and change RSMO 304.281.1. Much is cut out to get to the Red Light Part. The idea is that it is state law and you must stop when facing a steady red light. Get caught violating that and cause an accident. Then it goes from being an infraction to some legal trouble.
Rules for traffic where controlled by light signals--right turn on red light, when--violations, penalty.
304.281. 1. Whenever traffic is controlled by traffic control signals exhibiting different colored lights, or colored lighted arrows, successively one at a time or in combination, only the colors green, red and yellow shall be used, except for special pedestrian signals carrying a word legend, and said lights shall indicate and apply to drivers of vehicles and pedestrians as follows:
(1) Green indication
(2) Steady yellow indication
(3) Steady red indication
(a) Vehicular traffic facing a steady red signal alone shall stop before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection at a clearly marked stop line but, if none, then before entering the intersection and shall remain standing until an indication to proceed is shown except as provided in paragraph (b);
(b) The driver of a vehicle which is stopped as close as practicable at the entrance to the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then at the entrance to the intersection in obedience to a red signal, may cautiously enter the intersection to make a right turn but shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians and other traffic proceeding as directed by the signal at the intersection, except that the state highways and transportation commission with reference to an intersection involving a state highway, and local authorities with reference to an intersection involving other highways under their jurisdiction, may prohibit any such right turn against a red signal at any intersection where safety conditions so require, said prohibition shall be effective when a sign is erected at such intersection giving notice thereof;
red was just one of the issues. The point the lady was/is trying to make is whether or not someone is breaking the law when they do something that is prohibited by current laws.

At the intersection Ms.McMillan was referring to there is a large sign stating the intersection has a camera and right turns are included. Florissant's laws state that a driver can make a right turn on red AFTER coming to a full stop. The lady admitted she did not do that and therefore broke the law. I find it admirable that at least one person has the ethics to own up to their actions.

Many of you seem to think you can do whatever you want just as long as you don't get caught. Wonder what your kids think about that? Logic would dictate they feel the same way, so lots of luck teaching them to be honorable, law abiding citizens.
Old Coot

Florissant, MO

#18 Sep 28, 2012
money partners wrote:
<quoted text>
And don't forget, the company that installs the camera gets half the money.
Speed cameras are next.
So what? If you don't break the law you got nothing to worry about. Sounds like a lot of people on here like trying to get away with stuff. Like that other guy or gal said that's one of the problems with today's society. You people who think you can do whatever you please as long as nobody's looking.

No morals, no ethics, no manners just an attitude of doing what you feel like doing whenever you feel like doing it. Pitiful, just pitiful!
Doubting Thomas

Wentzville, MO

#19 Sep 28, 2012
Old Coot wrote:
<quoted text>
So what? If you don't break the law you got nothing to worry about. Sounds like a lot of people on here like trying to get away with stuff. Like that other guy or gal said that's one of the problems with today's society. You people who think you can do whatever you please as long as nobody's looking.
No morals, no ethics, no manners just an attitude of doing what you feel like doing whenever you feel like doing it. Pitiful, just pitiful!
Crotchety old curmudgeon. Take a laxative and call it a night.
2012theEND

Imperial, MO

#20 Sep 30, 2012
simple solution to the red light camera problem: Remove license plate, wear mask, flip camera off as it takes your picture.
Wake up

Arnold, MO

#21 Oct 1, 2012
Red light cameras cost money. When the cost exceeds the revenue, they will find a way to move or remove them, because it's not about safety.

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