The fine lines of polling

Full story: Evening Sun

There's no doubt in our minds that G. Terry Madonna has forgotten more about survey research than we'll ever know.

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Voice of Reason

Shippensburg, PA

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#63
Apr 4, 2010
 
ToughLove1 wrote:
KURT?/LogicPrevails?/logicFAIL S???
A draft report still quotes reliable research...have you checked the draft report that you are now questioning? I gave you the details. Sec 4.29. Read it and your 'draft' point becomes silly.
I do not say that 'personal responsibility' is rubbish. I ask you why only a gambler must have it it seems, and those who want gambling, or those who run the gambling should not be expected to also have it, in your opinion. please do not twist my words Kurt?.
If you see no parallels between Australian and US environments with the same industry and products you are even more imbued with your own self importance than I thought. Others might not be so parochial.
Nile Grazowski?...I am talking of people who DO HAVE casinos already, who 60% do not like them. You are confused...Your supposed 'majority' is amongst people who do NOT yet have casinos close by to Gettysburg national park area.
Voice of Reason? Legal does NOT make something 'right', safe or desirable. Must I also state the obvious? cigarettes? Be quiet.
Facts? Forget it... I have decided to keep on sharing my views to prevent you misleading bullies from spreading your nonsense yet more dangerously. If others do not appreciate the similarities and warnings, so be it. If people are given points I trust them to be able to assess it and to apply it. However in Gettysburg's case, you avoid all heritage issues, conveniently. THAT is illogical!
Be quiet? Are you kidding me? The time for your debate is passed, and the land use is legal in pennsylvania. Please explain to me the heritage issues? Please, I am unaware of them. Actual issues, not maybe's or might's...real ones.

Further, telling me, a local to be quiet, when the issue at hand is a local one, not a world one, is absurd. This is simply your latest cause, it is my life. How about you shut it, huh?
Libby Mitchell

Australia

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#64
Apr 4, 2010
 
Given that THIS is a PUBLIC WORLD-WIDE thread...where ALL may debate a LOCAL Gettysburg area issue...I am repeating here for consideration part of a post on another thread, simply because YOU Pro's are all running around in circles...using the same irrelevant reasons.

"I find it curious that Pro's constantly bring the casino issue back to one of "personal responsibility of the GAMBLER" when in fact the casino issue is MOST important because of the negative impact it will have on most OTHERS in the Gettysburg area...the MAJORITY!!...The people who will not even GAMBLE in that casino!!

These people include MANY innocent, powerless family, friends, neighbours, retailers, traders, employers, tourists and especially vulnerable children...NONE of whom should be expected to "crusade" anywhere...just so that SOME MINORITY of people can GAMBLE at all...least of all gamble excessively...to THEN harm predictably many OTHERS.

It is very interesting that although the MINORITY will likely gamble excessively...of the next MINORITY who will likely gamble at all...that the NET LOSS will still be EXCESSIVE for the MAJORITY of community members, because 40-50% of gambled casino takings...that will represent many many millions of lost dollars...maybe $25-30 million...will VERY likely come from around just a MINORITY...the 1440+ people who overspend on gambling. These gamblers could well harm over 10,080 people IF trends elsewhere are followed. But if fears are correct and Gettysysburg loses its heritage image and heritage tourist appeal...ALL local people will be ultimately harmed by a MINORITY...of gambling losers!

Why should ANY other person be forced to be labelled as moral zealot or whatever....JUST because the MINORITY PRETEND that their gambling is going to help Gettysburg....when the ONLY reasonable result is that it very much could harm it?

No matter how many local people say they support a casino in Gettysburg...they are right now only GUESSING...based upon what they knew when asked. A majority opinion is not always a good guide, when it could presumably be based upon 'guesswork', in a public poll that did not even provide exact location details for the casino in question! Its presumption of knowledge was a basic BAD error.

The EVIDENCE from other nearby 'casino town' areas is NOT telling us that a casino is a good, productive, high employing, HAPPY business that ADDS to local community strength...let alone a local HERITAGE image...that Gettysburg is known for already!"

The estimates as given by Mason Dixon are themselves only GUESSES also...that incidentally IGNORE the wealth of alternative and quite damning advice that flows in from world-wide and US state-wide comparisons about casinos.

We ALL must GUESS...but whose guess is likely to be closer to the truth...and which MAJORITY rights should be more carefully considered?

Pros...whether we use gut feelings, other research evidence or recent news reports or any future planning news that will increase competition for a casino in Gettysburg...YOU are attempting to RAM your view on a LOT of other people so no wonder they question you?

(cont...part 2)
Libby Mitchell

Australia

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#65
Apr 4, 2010
 
Pert 2 cont.)

What YOU claim is not so backed up by other US evidence...and if you read the news article blog comments alone, of other people who do already have casinos locally...you must accept that the news reports are very discouraging?

Casino workers are arguing re employment promises not kept and lousy work conditions, casinos will use Chinese imported materials..NOT local US products...casinos are losing money from cannibalization...casinos are going bankrupt OFTEN and locals observe that AC for example has fallen backwards since it opened. They are now calling for the reinvention of other business in AC? Online casinos will present a new limitation upon land-based gambling markets...increased bankruptcies...observed new crime...and the recession losses are far from over.

It is irrelevant who might point this out to you...we ALL can read online equally! Your case is NOT good enough obviously...or there would not be so much local AND wider opposition to it.

You never address these issues responsibly. You simply deny them?

Gettysburg is uniquely vulnerable...being especially valuable to ALL US residents especially who do have a stake in its survival and preservation. If you need expert comment upon the Heritage issues Voice of Reason, please refer to the No Casino Gettysburg sites...on FB and on the wider net? Those heritage issues are set out most convincingly. I am merely supporting them. As are a lot of other world-wide and US interested people.
Voice of Reason

Shippensburg, PA

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#66
Apr 5, 2010
 
Libby Mitchell wrote:
Pert 2 cont.)
What YOU claim is not so backed up by other US evidence...and if you read the news article blog comments alone, of other people who do already have casinos locally...you must accept that the news reports are very discouraging?
Casino workers are arguing re employment promises not kept and lousy work conditions, casinos will use Chinese imported materials..NOT local US products...casinos are losing money from cannibalization...casinos are going bankrupt OFTEN and locals observe that AC for example has fallen backwards since it opened. They are now calling for the reinvention of other business in AC? Online casinos will present a new limitation upon land-based gambling markets...increased bankruptcies...observed new crime...and the recession losses are far from over.
It is irrelevant who might point this out to you...we ALL can read online equally! Your case is NOT good enough obviously...or there would not be so much local AND wider opposition to it.
You never address these issues responsibly. You simply deny them?
Gettysburg is uniquely vulnerable...being especially valuable to ALL US residents especially who do have a stake in its survival and preservation. If you need expert comment upon the Heritage issues Voice of Reason, please refer to the No Casino Gettysburg sites...on FB and on the wider net? Those heritage issues are set out most convincingly. I am merely supporting them. As are a lot of other world-wide and US interested people.
READ THIS SLOWLY TO HELP AID IN COMPREHENSION...

You pose very interesting questions about the morality of gambling. The "pro's" choose not to answer them because this debate occurred in Pennsylvania 4 years ago, when the legislature approved gaming.

Your opinions on gambling are strong and you are entitled to them, but your arguments could simply remove the word Gettysburg, and insert and town name in its place...Your arguments are not against gambling in Gettysburg, your arguments are against gambling, period.

If you have anything specific to Gettysburg, I would love to hear it.
Libby Mitchell

Australia

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#67
Apr 5, 2010
 
Voice of Reason:

That is an evasive silly answer.
Casino gambling is the topic..NOT 'gambling'.
Your attempt to make me a moralist zealot on that score is ludicrous.

The issues raised about casino gambling and the loss of human rights for the majority of Gettysburg people IS directly relative to the Gettysburg casino issue.

You have obviously not read enough or you would know that my main issue is with the highly likely damage to the heritage area and image of Gettysburg and the damage to local society in Gettysburg, because of the casino.

Your 'reasonable' voice claim is inappropriate. Your response is inane.
Don't make comments that are sweeping i ntheir assumptions, when you have not read the person's posts fully to begin with.
Facts

Baltimore, MD

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#68
Apr 6, 2010
 
Libby Mitchell wrote:
the loss of human rights for the majority of Gettysburg people
What human rights are being lost in Gettysburg? Someone building something you don't like doesn't take away your rights. That kind of melodrama is pretty juvenile.
Voice of Reason

Shippensburg, PA

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#69
Apr 6, 2010
 
Libby Mitchell wrote:
Voice of Reason:
That is an evasive silly answer.
Casino gambling is the topic..NOT 'gambling'.
Your attempt to make me a moralist zealot on that score is ludicrous.
The issues raised about casino gambling and the loss of human rights for the majority of Gettysburg people IS directly relative to the Gettysburg casino issue.
You have obviously not read enough or you would know that my main issue is with the highly likely damage to the heritage area and image of Gettysburg and the damage to local society in Gettysburg, because of the casino.
Your 'reasonable' voice claim is inappropriate. Your response is inane.
Don't make comments that are sweeping i ntheir assumptions, when you have not read the person's posts fully to begin with.
Surprisingly, you have completely ignored what someone says, and try to pass it off as worthless.

I will ask the question in a different way: What SPECIFIC problems will Gettysburg have with a casino, that any other town would not have?
Libby Mitchell

Australia

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#70
Apr 6, 2010
 
Voice of Reason:

Open the link...read what it says about heritage tourism and the threat to Gettysburg specifically...and you have your answer.

http://www.facebook.com/posted.php... #!/group.php?gid=353665810098
Gburg Baseball Mom

Shippensburg, PA

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#71
Apr 9, 2010
 
ToughLove1 wrote:
GBurg Baseball Mom:
Sorry not to fit the usual addict profile! I have never had an illegal drug in my life. Unlike you obviously, Baseball Mom...since you appear to know so much about it. Perhaps you are high now and it has clouded your judgement and tact?
You seem to get such a thrill out of linking people's names inappropriately also. Why is it so odd to you that others might agree with Bill Kearney, who has done more to advance consumer safety for casino patrons already, than a lot of others put together?
I hardly know this man that you speak of, excepting that I know the efforts he has gone to, to prevent casino gambling harms before they start! Isn't that worth respecting? Or does it merely annoy you that if gambling addiction were lessened, that you might not get freebie dollars from sick people that you can soon 'legally' sponge off, to pay your taxes? I can see you salivating now.
All that 'jumping to conclusions and anticipating and need to escape via drugs or alcohol' that you refer to and exhibit, Mom, is a sure fire precursor to casino gambling addiction. On those pesky, mesmerising slots especially. Be careful!
Meanwhile stop trying to distract from a serious issue, that is that a PGCB 'plant' is possibly in the midst of public casino discussions.
The silence about this from the Pro's is becoming deafening. Do not give any rubbish that "Nobody takes notice of Bill Kearney anyway". Fact is that many do, despite your insults, Pro's...and many more people would also be wondering about PGCB ethics now...so why any delay on sorting Bill's claims out openly and squarely.
Why are you protecting a 'gutless anonymous blogger' anyway?. You men use your own names...openly? The silence is getting sicker by the minute. It does not add up. not at all.(Libby Mitchell)
You do not know me or you would not have trotted at this weak attempt to shame someone Libby. Let me introduce myself. My name is Wendy Sykes. I live in the Borough of Gettysburg. I dealt with my own personal addiction issues 20 years ago. I took responsibilty for my actions, and paid the finacial price for my actions for years now. I am not down on Route 30 picketing the local State ran liquor store to make them pay for my past deeds. You need to shut your computer down and head to the nearest Gamblers Annoymous meeting. Oh, and please go tend to your own backyard, 62 percent of us are in favor of this.
Believe

Carlisle, PA

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#72
Apr 9, 2010
 
Gburg Baseball Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not know me or you would not have trotted at this weak attempt to shame someone Libby. Let me introduce myself. My name is Wendy Sykes. I live in the Borough of Gettysburg. I dealt with my own personal addiction issues 20 years ago. I took responsibilty for my actions, and paid the finacial price for my actions for years now. I am not down on Route 30 picketing the local State ran liquor store to make them pay for my past deeds. You need to shut your computer down and head to the nearest Gamblers Annoymous meeting. Oh, and please go tend to your own backyard, 62 percent of us are in favor of this.
Bravo Wendy, Bravo. As a former "Baseball Mom" to another I salute you!
Gburg Baseball Mom

Shippensburg, PA

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#73
Apr 9, 2010
 
Believe wrote:
<quoted text>
Bravo Wendy, Bravo. As a former "Baseball Mom" to another I salute you!
Thank you. I made a choice to post publicly to hopefully shut Libby up. She knows nothing of our area and is trying to use our local issue to further her personal agenda.

Since: Apr 08

PHILADELPHIA

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#74
Apr 11, 2010
 
Gburg Baseball Mom wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not know me or you would not have trotted at this weak attempt to shame someone Libby. Let me introduce myself. My name is Wendy Sykes. I live in the Borough of Gettysburg. I dealt with my own personal addiction issues 20 years ago. I took responsibilty for my actions, and paid the finacial price for my actions for years now. I am not down on Route 30 picketing the local State ran liquor store to make them pay for my past deeds. You need to shut your computer down and head to the nearest Gamblers Annoymous meeting. Oh, and please go tend to your own backyard, 62 percent of us are in favor of this.
You tell them you have conquered what controlled you because you are a strong willed person and you could do this because all humans have free will and you have much intelligence shame that can't be said for all who post here.

Since: Jan 09

Hanover

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#75
Apr 11, 2010
 
Libby, just what qualifies you to make all these posts about a casino near Gettysburg?
What is your:
Occupation?
Training/education?
Crusades?
I shouldn't ask, but I will - Age?
Any other pertinent qualifications or facts?

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