H-D Announces New Engine

Full story: Motorcycleworld.com

Harley-Davidson will launch an all-new Big Twin powertrain for 2007. July 14, 2006 Milwaukee, WI - Harley-Davidson will launch an all-new Big Twin powertrain for 2007, as the Twin Cam 96/96B engine and ...

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B Horner

United States

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#1
Jul 14, 2006
 

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Harley Davidson needs to start putting mufflers on all of their products. They are too noisy. The only thing Harley has going for them is the noise, their motorcycles are a 1920's product and not comparible to any quality european or asian product
Pete

Hugo, MN

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#2
Jul 17, 2006
 
B Horner wrote:
Harley Davidson needs to start putting mufflers on all of their products. They are too noisy. The only thing Harley has going for them is the noise, their motorcycles are a 1920's product and not comparible to any quality european or asian product
Uh, are you familiar with motorcycles? Your statement about how "Harley-Davidson needs to start putting mufflers on all their products" is untrue. Virtually every new motorcycle sold by a US dealer (including Harley-Davidsons) is required to have noise emissions controls that meet federal regulations. The same holds true for new autos sold in the US. The original-equipment exhaust sold on Harley-Davidson motorcycles meets these federal requirements, and if they didn't, the motorcycles would not be certified for sale in the US market.

However, the buyers of the motorcycles (and autos, for that matter) frequently modify the exhaust after purchase to improve the sound. This practice is common on all brands of motorcycle, not just Harley-Davidsons. If done correctly, exhaust modifications can improve the power output and efficiency of the motorcycle engine.

If owners install non-original exhaust equipment that exceeds federal/state/local noise limits, it remains beyond the control of motorcycle manufacturers to stop this practice.
Pete

Hugo, MN

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#3
Jul 17, 2006
 
B Horner wrote:
Harley Davidson needs to start putting mufflers on all of their products. They are too noisy. The only thing Harley has going for them is the noise, their motorcycles are a 1920's product and not comparible to any quality european or asian product
It should also be noted that Harley-Davidson's "1920's products" outsell their next-closest market-segment competitor in the US by more than a 2 to 1 margin.

You may disdain the Harley products, but Harley's sales volumes continue to grow at a robust rate.
D Merritt Lamesa Tx

Bolivar, MO

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#4
Jul 25, 2006
 
The Harley noise is not the only thing they have going for them,you can take anything from two wheel's two eighteen and put after market exhaust system's and make them loud.Harley is the KING of motor cycle's.The only time Harley was worthles was when A.M.F. owned them from 1969 to 1984 and i quote were given a proverbial snowball's chance in hell,then hell froze over and thus evoled Milwokus motobikus.There are some rice burner's out there that are good,but are not as good as a Harley.My thank's to Harley for making one of the best bike's on the road.God Bless America and Our Troop's.
Mogan Dave

Bangkok, Thailand

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#5
Jul 26, 2006
 
D Merritt Lamesa Tx wrote:
The Harley noise is not the only thing they have going for them,you can take anything from two wheel's two eighteen and put after market exhaust system's and make them loud.Harley is the KING of motor cycle's.The only time Harley was worthles was when A.M.F. owned them from 1969 to 1984 and i quote were given a proverbial snowball's chance in hell,then hell froze over and thus evoled Milwokus motobikus.There are some rice burner's out there that are good,but are not as good as a Harley.My thank's to Harley for making one of the best bike's on the road.God Bless America and Our Troop's.
Say what you want about AMF but Harley would have gone belly-up in the early 70s had they not come along.
Julie

Hana, HI

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#6
Aug 5, 2006
 
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh, are you familiar with motorcycles? Your statement about how "Harley-Davidson needs to start putting mufflers on all their products" is untrue. Virtually every new motorcycle sold by a US dealer (including Harley-Davidsons) is required to have noise emissions controls that meet federal regulations. The same holds true for new autos sold in the US. The original-equipment exhaust sold on Harley-Davidson motorcycles meets these federal requirements, and if they didn't, the motorcycles would not be certified for sale in the US market.
However, the buyers of the motorcycles (and autos, for that matter) frequently modify the exhaust after purchase to improve the sound. This practice is common on all brands of motorcycle, not just Harley-Davidsons. If done correctly, exhaust modifications can improve the power output and efficiency of the motorcycle engine.
If owners install non-original exhaust equipment that exceeds federal/state/local noise limits, it remains beyond the control of motorcycle manufacturers to stop this practice.
Pete: I think you get paid by HD to post this stuff. If all of you people love that heinous noise of your motorcycles so much, good for you. Go listen to it on a set of head phones. Maybe I'll let my crying screaming baby jar you out of a sound sleep a few hundred times and then you can tell me how much you enjoy that sound. Hey, I know -- let's have some screaming baby rallies. All weekend long. In your neighborhood. If I sound bitter, I am. I am fed up and I'm not alone. You people are going to get shut down, one community at a time.
John

United States

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#7
Aug 5, 2006
 
Julie wrote:
<quoted text>
Pete: I think you get paid by HD to post this stuff. If all of you people love that heinous noise of your motorcycles so much, good for you. Go listen to it on a set of head phones. Maybe I'll let my crying screaming baby jar you out of a sound sleep a few hundred times and then you can tell me how much you enjoy that sound. Hey, I know -- let's have some screaming baby rallies. All weekend long. In your neighborhood. If I sound bitter, I am. I am fed up and I'm not alone. You people are going to get shut down, one community at a time.
Speaking of bitter, you now hold that title. HD motorcycles wil be around for a long time. Yes, they will evolve. Everything does. Even your atitude. You must know that ALL motorcycles are becoming more mainstream especially HD motorcycles. This is a matter of economics. Now to your rash comments on the noise. The noise is so that the "four" wheeled drivers can "hear" us so that they "see" us and not "hit" us. Drivers in the four wheeled vehicles seem to not be able to know that there is a motorcycle right by them. The noise informs the four wheeled driver WE ARE THERE. This is why the expression is used: "Load pipes save lives".
John

United States

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#8
Aug 6, 2006
 
John wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of bitter, you now hold that title. HD motorcycles wil be around for a long time. Yes, they will evolve. Everything does. Even your atitude. You must know that ALL motorcycles are becoming more mainstream especially HD motorcycles. This is a matter of economics. Now to your rash comments on the noise. The noise is so that the "four" wheeled drivers can "hear" us so that they "see" us and not "hit" us. Drivers in the four wheeled vehicles seem to not be able to know that there is a motorcycle right by them. The noise informs the four wheeled driver WE ARE THERE. This is why the expression is used: "Load pipes save lives".
SORRY, THAT IS LOUD PIPES SAVE LIVES!
Norm

Atlanta, GA

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#9
Aug 7, 2006
 
My friend has a stock Harley with a "whole" 82 horsepower from over 1100cc.
My 650cc Suzuki has about 85 horsepower.

He also needs to purchase special HD tires due to no support for a radial tire design on his 2004 HD.

HD may be able to claim good sales, but I agree that it is old technology.
Mark

Wilmington, DE

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#10
Aug 10, 2006
 
Old Technology ! Bull ! On Sunday I just bought a 2007 HD Ultra Classic Electra Glide. This thing has more technology it than you can imagine. A buddy of mine has and 1800 Goldwing and was amazed with this bike. I hated Harleys till about two years ago. I have a 2003 Kawasaki Voyager XII which I now have up for sale due to the fact that the Harley out performs and out handles the voyager. Even though the Kawi is faster than the Harley, the Harley has alot more torque and climbs hill better. Before placing judgement on a Harley, go to the dealership and look for yourself.
Pete

Hugo, MN

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#11
Aug 11, 2006
 
Julie wrote:
<quoted text>
Pete: I think you get paid by HD to post this stuff. If all of you people love that heinous noise of your motorcycles so much, good for you. Go listen to it on a set of head phones. Maybe I'll let my crying screaming baby jar you out of a sound sleep a few hundred times and then you can tell me how much you enjoy that sound. Hey, I know -- let's have some screaming baby rallies. All weekend long. In your neighborhood. If I sound bitter, I am. I am fed up and I'm not alone. You people are going to get shut down, one community at a time.
I can respect your opinion about loud motorcycles, Julie, but you've missed the point of my post. Harley-Davidson motorcycles in stock, unmodified form will pass federal vehicle noise regulations. If owners choose to change their bikes (and make the exhausts louder), it is beyond the control of the Harley-Davidson company.

There may indeed be some ridiculously loud motorcycles on the road near your home. But my guess is that the owners are breaking your local noise ordinances and could be cited by local law enforcement. If your local constabulary was doing its job, the public nuisance you complain about would be curtailed.

For the record, the CEO of Harley-Davidson released a company statement regarding loud motorcycles. Harley-Davidson's parts catalog no longer sells H-D branded exhausts that exceed federal noise regulations. The CEO's statement, in short, said that it is the responsibility of the motorcycle manufacturers and owners together to address the noise issue. The consequences of inaction could include some Draconian motorcycle legislation, of which, Julie, I am sure you would approve.

For what it's worth, Julie, I have young children, too. I appreciate your point of view. And I am not on Harley-Davidson's payroll, nor do I advocate for the legalization of 100 dB exhaust pipes on street motorcycles.
John

United States

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#12
Aug 13, 2006
 
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
I can respect your opinion about loud motorcycles, Julie, but you've missed the point of my post. Harley-Davidson motorcycles in stock, unmodified form will pass federal vehicle noise regulations. If owners choose to change their bikes (and make the exhausts louder), it is beyond the control of the Harley-Davidson company.
There may indeed be some ridiculously loud motorcycles on the road near your home. But my guess is that the owners are breaking your local noise ordinances and could be cited by local law enforcement. If your local constabulary was doing its job, the public nuisance you complain about would be curtailed.
For the record, the CEO of Harley-Davidson released a company statement regarding loud motorcycles. Harley-Davidson's parts catalog no longer sells H-D branded exhausts that exceed federal noise regulations. The CEO's statement, in short, said that it is the responsibility of the motorcycle manufacturers and owners together to address the noise issue. The consequences of inaction could include some Draconian motorcycle legislation, of which, Julie, I am sure you would approve.
For what it's worth, Julie, I have young children, too. I appreciate your point of view. And I am not on Harley-Davidson's payroll, nor do I advocate for the legalization of 100 dB exhaust pipes on street motorcycles.
In some way you are close to the truth about legislation about aftermarket parts for exhaust systems. But you entirly missed the mark on why. 1-1/2 years ago the feds decided to impose very tough new regulations on motorcycles to match and exceed what Calif. had done for years. But the new regs. for the EPA made it "allmost" impossible for anyone to "modify" the engine or exhaust system for any bike that was 2006 or more current. Also all of the motorcycle manufactures had to have thier cycles certified for EPA. The cost made it prohibitive for ANY small motorcycle custom mfg. company to exist. Why do you think Jesse James sold his company? The laws go further that ANY person can only buy and own ONE custom kit bike in thier life time.....NO MATER WHAT!(read the regulation) Harley as a company likes this because only certified original equipment parts may be used on engines and exhausts. It's a money thing! So your reasoning that the owner of HD was trying to be a low noise advocate is way off base. He is interrested in the bottom line. And he can see that his company can own more of the aftermarket parts with these new regulations. He may be just "playing politics".
Now any bikes for the time being can be modified in the same old way......if you can find the parts. Slowly aftermarket exhaust companies are disappearing or changing thier lines of products due to this regulation.
And just so that you know.....NOT ONE PERSON IN THE USA WAS ASKED TO VOTE ON THIS NEW REGULATION. IT WAS PUT INTO ACTION WITHOUT APPROVAL OF THE POPULATION.
If you do not believe what I am writing, then find the regulation and read it first. Then comment back.

John
Pete

Hugo, MN

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#13
Aug 14, 2006
 
John wrote:
<quoted text>
In some way you are close to the truth about legislation about aftermarket parts for exhaust systems. But you entirly missed the mark on why. 1-1/2 years ago the feds decided to impose very tough new regulations on motorcycles to match and exceed what Calif. had done for years. But the new regs. for the EPA made it "allmost" impossible for anyone to "modify" the engine or exhaust system for any bike that was 2006 or more current. Also all of the motorcycle manufactures had to have thier cycles certified for EPA. The cost made it prohibitive for ANY small motorcycle custom mfg. company to exist. <snip>
I believe you John -- I've read about the EPA stuff, too. Here's a summary article:

On July 25, 2006, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) adopted an on-highway motorcycle engine emissions certification option which allows a small volume manufacturer, custom builder, assembler and individual to purchase and install an engine that has already been EPA certified in another motorcycle, without having to recertify the motorcycle, as long as reasonable criteria are met.

Kit bikes are motorcycles typically built by individuals using off-the-shelf components, while custom bikes are generally show bikes built by a business and sold to a customer.

Under the regulations, a person is allowed only one kit motorcycle in their lifetime that is exempt from meeting EPA emissions requirements.

For custom motorcycles, a builder may create and sell up to 24 bikes a year that don't meet EPA emissions requirements, but those machines must be labeled as exempt and are show bikes that only rarely may be ridden.

The Letter of Guidance confirms that by using an EPA-certified engine, an individual will, in fact, be permitted to build a kit motorcycle without invoking the "one per lifetime" rule, subject to restrictions on exhaust systems, carburetors, fuel injection, and certain other components.

"New highway motorcycles certified in this manner may be operated or re-sold without restriction, as long as all requirements of this procedure are met and the anti-tampering requirements of the federal Clean Air Act (42 U.S. C. sec. 203(a)) are met," says the EPA Letter of Guidance.

END OF ARTICLE

Note, John, that the EPA allows small custom builders to build bikes using EPA-certified engines. This saves the custom bike builder the enormous costs associated with EPA certification, and it also exempts the buyers from the "one-per-lifetime" rule.

Custom bike builders may not choose to jump through the hoops presented by the EPA, but I don't think that the EPA has shut down the custom bike industry, either.
John

United States

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#14
Aug 14, 2006
 
Pete wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe you John -- I've read about the EPA stuff, too. Here's a summary article:
On July 25, 2006, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) adopted an on-highway motorcycle engine emissions certification option which allows a small volume manufacturer, custom builder, assembler and individual to purchase and install an engine that has already been EPA certified in another motorcycle, without having to recertify the motorcycle, as long as reasonable criteria are met.
Kit bikes are motorcycles typically built by individuals using off-the-shelf components, while custom bikes are generally show bikes built by a business and sold to a customer.
Under the regulations, a person is allowed only one kit motorcycle in their lifetime that is exempt from meeting EPA emissions requirements.
For custom motorcycles, a builder may create and sell up to 24 bikes a year that don't meet EPA emissions requirements, but those machines must be labeled as exempt and are show bikes that only rarely may be ridden.
The Letter of Guidance confirms that by using an EPA-certified engine, an individual will, in fact, be permitted to build a kit motorcycle without invoking the "one per lifetime" rule, subject to restrictions on exhaust systems, carburetors, fuel injection, and certain other components.
"New highway motorcycles certified in this manner may be operated or re-sold without restriction, as long as all requirements of this procedure are met and the anti-tampering requirements of the federal Clean Air Act (42 U.S. C. sec. 203(a)) are met," says the EPA Letter of Guidance.
END OF ARTICLE
Note, John, that the EPA allows small custom builders to build bikes using EPA-certified engines. This saves the custom bike builder the enormous costs associated with EPA certification, and it also exempts the buyers from the "one-per-lifetime" rule.
Custom bike builders may not choose to jump through the hoops presented by the EPA, but I don't think that the EPA has shut down the custom bike industry, either.
Its all well and good what you say but look closer at the language of the regulation. Those 24 bikes are for OFF ROAD and SHOWS ONLY. THey are not for daily riding. You are never exempt from the one kit bike rule. You really have to read and analize the regulation. Thunder Press did about a year ago. Custom bike manufacturors want to produce more than 24 bikes a year and for normal use. Again to certify the bikes for EPA normal use the bike manufacturor has a huge cost to be certified. You cannot just buy a "certified engine" and sell bikes. It is the complete mechanical assembly including exhaust and carburation. It is the bike manufacturor that needs to be certified and a small amount of bikes a year will not cover the cost of certification. They wols have to build hundreds of bikes each year. Harley knows this. This will eliminate competition. Therefore harley only has to compete against the other manufacturors that can produce the way they do.

john
Pete

Hugo, MN

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#15
Aug 14, 2006
 
I dunno, John. Harley sold 329,000 motorcycles in 2005. Do you really think that a small custom bike maker (who makes 24 bikes/year) is a threat to their market dominance? I also think that a custom bike maker who charges anywhere between $40-120k could pass the costs of EPA certification on to buyers without too much trouble. I also believe that this may create an opportunity for engine makers (like S&S, for example) to get their engines EPA certified and then sold into the aftermarket for kit use.

The aftermarket is a wonderful place, and I think buyers who really want loud pipes on their bikes will be able to find them. If not, it's quite easy to hand-fab straight pipes in a small machine shop...
Michael

Sunnyvale, CA

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#16
Aug 16, 2006
 
How many Harley shops does it take to get to Sturgis?
D Merritt Lamesa Tx wrote:
The Harley noise is not the only thing they have going for them,you can take anything from two wheel's two eighteen and put after market exhaust system's and make them loud.Harley is the KING of motor cycle's.The only time Harley was worthles was when A.M.F. owned them from 1969 to 1984 and i quote were given a proverbial snowball's chance in hell,then hell froze over and thus evoled Milwokus motobikus.There are some rice burner's out there that are good,but are not as good as a Harley.My thank's to Harley for making one of the best bike's on the road.God Bless America and Our Troop's.
Possumkop

AOL

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#17
Aug 18, 2006
 
Anybody listened to a 2007 Harley? The exhaust note is better,perhaps a little louder. That's what the customer wants. I'm not a Harley fanatic,but I wonder how many of these negative comments come from real motorcyclists? Most mature riders that I know-whether riding Honda,Harley ,BMW or whatever will openly admit that Harley has good quality and good overall products.Some prefer more power and some prefer European riding positions with improved high speed handling and such. That's what makes it all so interesting and fun--variety. Nobody,however,is denying Harley's well earned status as the ultimate "come back kid" and American to boot! Quit griping and ride your choice. I happen to prefer American products so long as they aren't junk.Believe me,the competitive free market won't let much junk survive today,and Harley is a great example of what competition can do. RIDE SAFE.
SoftailMotor from Holland

Zwolle, Netherlands

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#18
Aug 18, 2006
 
Come on HDers, they are only jealous!!!!
They ride there tupper ware bikes for 2 years and then they fall apart. They are right, even the HD's from the 1920's are still running. And eh.........Is a tupperbike looking like a HD or is it.........?
John

Colton, CA

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#19
Aug 22, 2006
 
Riding a Jap bike is like doing a fat chick... it's fun till somebody sees ya! Most people that talk smack about Harleys have never been on one.
R1200RT

United States

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#20
Aug 29, 2006
 
Buy a Harley if you want to go on parade. Buy a BMW if you want to ride.

Yes I've had Harleys, I've logged over 22,000 miles in the past year, & not been passed by a Harley. I've backed up more miles than most posers have ridden.

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