Messianic Jews say they are persecuted in Israel

Full story: Newsday

Safety pins and screws are still lodged in 15-year-old Ami Ortiz's body three months after he opened a booby-trapped gift basket sent to his family.

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““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

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#41711
Oct 9, 2012
 
MUQ wrote:
To: MAAT
That is the endless type of discussions I was afraid of!!
Once I start replying to your post, we are sucked into an infinite alley with side issues and one more side-side issues...
After 1000 or so posts, we find we are back where we started!!
I have no stomach for such type of discussions.
Discussions for the sake of discussions.
You have many people that have the same tendency as you. Our Frijoles, Bufford and Joel Pastaka are ideal for your kind of discussions, not me.
No like i said, the narratives differ, and the only point is what rules one applies to origins. That was never resolved.
Frankly it is about you beng able to enter a neutral historical debate. Or entertain a critical attitude. The sky is not going to fall on your head. It's called the greater jihad.

Well if you expect me to do the research, but get a bit tired by your own introduced sideways.(A reaction on Najran having a kabaa too f.i. or the very different Avram narrative, as in why would the quraan and hadith call hebrews pertinent liars when all they do is speak about their book thruthfully.) So i understand your impuls. But nevertheless you would have to provide positive proof, and than i might be inclined to look into it again.

Such are the rules of debate.
Furthermore i have no vested interest in the character jesus.
All it does is quote Torah and tanakh and often wrong at that.
kevin gunning

Santiago, Chile

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#41712
Oct 9, 2012
 

Judged:

1

theyre not persecuted as badly as the Palestinians, i guarantee that.
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41713
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...
Obama was doing the same thing when he picked sides in Egypt and Libya, got out of Iraq and got into Iran. What's the point? Unfortunately, Obama picked the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt aka Al Qaeda instead of the secular elements which have become an endangered species in the entire region.
Some would say that Obama's 'values' more closely align with the MB. Not that I would - but some would.
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41714
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
http://www.osha.gov/
There is also a EU OSHA.
Companies, especially the smaller ones are none to happy, but this is to do with unification of rules to the highest standards.
It would not be such a problem, if they never signed the silly constitution that obligates nations to pay a certain amount to an overarching military. Which is usually exactly the amount they would need to make their countries competitive and still pay decent wages.
Furthermore this constitution states that worker-rights and social rights can be revoked if the payments to the military fall through.
Just one of the many reasons ordinary people in France and Holland disagreed. But the weird thing is that those very rules were created by the Dutch that for the longest time wanted a Dutch NATO head, and the price to pay was to betray the people and lie about it.
Failed privatisation falls in the same category.
No drip down effect, and particularly not leading to cheaper competitive rates nor better service.
And by moving the bill to 2014 they could still show a positive balance.
You could called it the libertarian fairy-tales.
http://nationalsafety.wordpres s.com/2009/07/28/osha-cowboy-o sha-bullrider-osha-santa-osha- streaker-and-more%E2%80%A6/
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41715
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Being independant from foreign energy, that cost an arm and a leg in paying for peace and non-interference.
Or decent use of materials so your sky-scrapers, roads and bridges do not collapse, nor houses in ever increasing amounts of hurricanes due to oceanic sligh rise of water-temperature...
No they would not.
But fighting for America's independance and sustainability (i would say a conservative agenda also, since they never went with neo-liberalism) in the long run should not be fought so vile and race-directed as it is.
And counter-productive.
The emotion that you dismissed was the genuine feeling of disenfranchised people feeling a new hope, albeit through the symbolism of the first ever elected black president.
I've skimmed several sites and i would say racism has never been so outspoken bar groups that always catered in it.
But Sea you would vote conservative if you could, so have you ever actually laid the let's say good conservative agenda next to the democratic one, and made a comparison?
Yes, it's somewhere in the middle with good ideas from both sides. Unfortunately, the voters vote and the extreme elements of the dominant party take over. I would happily vote for a black president - bring one on.
(Obama is technically half-black). What happened in the Clinton admin was the push to get everyone the 'right' to own their own home - a lovely idea. Unfortunately they couldn't afford to maintain them or pay for them. Everybody paid the price, except the junk bond people who made a fortune packaging risky mortgages. Guaranteed by the taxpayers.

http://www.google.com/search...

gotta get to work - see you tonight

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

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#41716
Oct 9, 2012
 
have a good one.
I'm at home with a jaw infection.

Apropos the faith of the king of Tyre, MUQ.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6938.htm
qedar and it's actual meaning
Northwest-arabia now/jordan, close to Nabatea, N.E.
bedouine, dark dressed.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6152.htm
arab- steppe plain western/evening flat land.
Comp. aravah
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

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#41717
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...
rabbee: don't care what anyone says is going to happen. when it is going to happen, precisely as commanded to happen by G-D. this whether the jews, can't accept it, the christians can't accept it, or the rest of the pagan world can't accept it.

all armed plagues are the result of your mental deprivation against G-D, here in TheStory of Creation.

TheTorah is TheProphecy, of all past, present and future events, in this whole world rebelling against G-D.

with only little over one-thousand years before Parashas Noach again. with this world that, just can't get it together here in TheStory of Creation agains'es.

with thousands and thousands of third or fourth, failed times behind us. and without knowing, how many more before us. in this world mentally fighting against G-D, to get it physically all wrong, here in TheStory of Creation agains'es.

in this world and their grandmother again, that just can comprehend being actually here in TheStory of Creation from TheG-D WHO can give it again and again forever if need be.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41718
Oct 9, 2012
 
former res wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you saying more people voting equals better chance for Obama win?
Splain please.
Not necessarily - just that it will be a close election

Speaking of polls - this is interesting - basically it is contending that at the end of the day, Romney only got a few percent bump, thats all, bringing the race back to what it was before the Obama surge.
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012...
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41719
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
Romney to escalate conflict in the middle-east.
Let's arm those in Syria that are like us/share our value.(So 'we' can attack Iran from there.)
Where did we see that again.
They armed fatah, to see all the weapons go to Hamas.
Good thing it's the second tier peope that actually have the rules and policies in place.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/08/m...
Yes, Romney seems to be bringing back the Bush agenda - which makes a certain sense since many of his advisors are warmed over neo-cons from that era such as John Bolton. How anyone would want that again is beyond me.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41720
Oct 9, 2012
 
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>Obama was doing the same thing when he picked sides in Egypt and Libya, got out of Iraq and got into Iran. What's the point? Unfortunately, Obama picked the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt aka Al Qaeda instead of the secular elements which have become an endangered species in the entire region.
Some would say that Obama's 'values' more closely align with the MB. Not that I would - but some would.
Please provide evidence that Obama picked the Muslim brotherhood, and that his values reflect theirs.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41723
Oct 9, 2012
 
Voluntarist wrote:
Obama might try an October surprise on Iran to win the election, war monger votes.
Cant be a suprise if everyone has been talking about it for the last six months.

Old news.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41724
Oct 9, 2012
 
Voluntarist wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't participate in welfare or social security.
Nope. Not you. Never. And you never pay taxes (Except for sales, gas, utility, communication (phone) etc etc).

And as we can tell here, you even recycle your own sht.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

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#41725
Oct 9, 2012
 
Mohammad , the Ideal Prophet By SYED SULAIMAN NADWI (Abridged) Part-19

Lecture 3. The Historic Aspect of Prophet Muhammads Life (Contd.)

The written heritage of the TABEEIN Era:

Hisham bin Urwah, Qais bin Abi Hazim, Ata bin Abi-Ribah, Saeed bin Jubair and Abu Zunnad (May Allah be pleased with them all).

On IBN SHIHAB ZUHRI (One of many TABEEN):

Shihab Zuhri is considered to be one of the greatest authorities on the subject of the holy Prophets traditions and his biography. He is a true Imam of Hadith and Seerah. He used to write down each and every thing about the holy Prophets life.

Abu Zunnad says that while he and his colleagues noted and collected the Prophets rulings regarding only the lawful and the unlawful things, Zuhri would make a note of everything he learnt about the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him).

Ibn Kaisan says that he and Zuhri were fellow students. He says that he decided only to collect and write what concerned the holy Prophet because he considered only this knowledge as Sunnah (the holy Prophets tradition) Zuhri told him to write about the holy Prophets companions as well, because he regarded that information too as part of Sunnah. Ibn Kaisan says that he disagreed with Zuhri on that point. He says the result was disastrous for him, whereas Zuhri reached great heights of scholarship...


Imam Zuhri was born in the year 50 AH and died in 124 AH. His ancestors were Qureish, the same as the holy Prophets. He collected the holy Prophets sayings and traditions in their smallest details with extreme diligence, dedication and
care.

According to the historians he would go to every Ansaris house in Madinah Munawwarah door to door and would talk to as many men, women, and children he could possibly meet, asking them if they knew any thing at all about the holy
Prophet (Peace be upon him).

only ambition and these dedicated men had given up every thing else in life for the sake of this noble work.

False Notion about Muslims Written Records:

There is a certain fallacy regarding the collection and classification of the
literature about the holy Prophets life, his sayings and traditions. It is believed that this work was begun by the Tabieen. Their era lasted for about a hundred years. Since the Tabieens era supposedly began a hundred years after the holy
Prophets death, it is concluded that the work about his life and mission was
begun a hundred years later.

Historically this is absolutely baseless. As has been said earlier, by definition a Tabiee is a person who did not receive direct instruction from the holy Prophet but saw his companions, the Companions, and learned from them. Some Tabieen were born in the holy Prophets lifetime but were too young to receive any education from him.

Others were born after his death (11 AH). They are all included in Tabieen. Looking at it from this perspective we can say that the Tabi eens era began in or around 11 AH and it actually ended with the passing away of the last companion of the holy Prophet (Peace be upon him) which is a period of about 100 years.

The end of this time meant the end of the Tabieens period because to be called a Tabiee meant having seen one of the holy Prophets companions. Hence the work that actually began since the 11th year of AI-Hijra (the year of the holy Prophets death) cannot be deemed to have begun in the second century...

SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41726
Oct 9, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide evidence that Obama picked the Muslim brotherhood, and that his values reflect theirs.
His administration was calling for Mubarak to get out and supporting the uprising, and 'if' he didn't know that the opposition to Mubarak was primarily MB, then someone is not doing their job. Same story in Benghazi..who's in charge anyway?

And then there's Syria - no great outcry from the administration, nothing like when Egypt was erupting. And suppose they decide to support the anti-Bashan factions. Who the hell are they anyway? Does the administration know? Are they MB again masquerading as freedom fighters? We have a seriously dismal record (both parties) of backing the wrong people and then wondering wth went wrong. Perhaps Obama should attend more of his daily intel briefings in person instead of the cliff notes version - he is the president after all.(I hear he's begun attending since it came out that he cut out of 60% of them) I was just as hostile to previous admins that picked OBL to partner with.

I didn't say I believed his values are same as MB - but that some may say that. And some have, just not me.
SeasideSoon

Smyrna, GA

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#41727
Oct 9, 2012
 
MAAT wrote:
have a good one.
I'm at home with a jaw infection.
Apropos the faith of the king of Tyre, MUQ.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6938.htm
qedar and it's actual meaning
Northwest-arabia now/jordan, close to Nabatea, N.E.
bedouine, dark dressed.
http://concordances.org/bdb/6152.htm
arab- steppe plain western/evening flat land.
Comp. aravah
Ouch! Hope you feel better soon Maaty.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#41728
Oct 9, 2012
 

Judged:

1

former res wrote:
<quoted text>
That makes it even scarier.
He sounds like a "cafeteria Christian."
Might as well put Huggybear in charge of science!
Um... ALL Christians are cafeteria Christians. The only way it is possible to believe Chrisitanity is by piclking and choosing some parts of the Bible to worship, and some to completely ignore.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

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#41729
Oct 9, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
BTW my wife wants to vote for Mitt because according to him there is no global warming (She knows there IS such a warming but she likes the better idea of creating a new reality)
Sigh. If only it really were that easy...
jimi-yank

Asheville, NC

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#41730
Oct 9, 2012
 
Frijoles wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide evidence that Obama picked the Muslim brotherhood, and that his values reflect theirs.
You shoud have been swallowed.
Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41731
Oct 10, 2012
 
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>His administration was calling for Mubarak to get out and supporting the uprising, and 'if' he didn't know that the opposition to Mubarak was primarily MB, then someone is not doing their job. Same story in Benghazi..who's in charge anyway?

And then there's Syria - no great outcry from the administration, nothing like when Egypt was erupting. And suppose they decide to support the anti-Bashan factions. Who the hell are they anyway? Does the administration know? Are they MB again masquerading as freedom fighters? We have a seriously dismal record (both parties) of backing the wrong people and then wondering wth went wrong. Perhaps Obama should attend more of his daily intel briefings in person instead of the cliff notes version - he is the president after all.(I hear he's begun attending since it came out that he cut out of 60% of them) I was just as hostile to previous admins that picked OBL to partner with.
I didn't say I believed his values are same as MB - but that some may say that. And some have, just not me.
But the opposition wasnt primarily MB. The MB got elected because unlike the seculars, they already had the organization. But by numbers, they were not dominant. If you recall, initially they refused to get into the fight.

Most if not all of what goes on in Syria regarding support goes on quietly behind the scenes - so it is not even possible to cirtique our efforts because the exact details are not available.

Your earlier post implied his values were same as the MB. Ok - I'll accept your retraction. But now you are saying is is our fault that the MB took power. We cant control the rest of the world - its not Obamas or any other Western leader's fault about the Arab spring.



Frijoles

Bristol, CT

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#41732
Oct 10, 2012
 
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Sigh. If only it really were that easy...
Get with the program. It IS that easy.

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