Orval Strong, Gerber: Corporate elite

Full story: Red Bluff Daily News

Editor: This is a response to Mr. Stiglich's "The day of reckoning" letter of Jan.

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Fred

Redding, CA

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#41
Feb 4, 2011
 
Well said, Respectful effort. The left seems so unhappy. They want total socialism where the producers will pay more and more for the non-producer's well being.

"More than 3 out of every 4 Americans feel it is important to have a "choice" between a government-run health care insurance option and private coverage." 77% do not want this forced on us.

58% favor REPEAL of the Health Care Bill.

Only 38% oppose repeal of the Health Care Bill.

49% of the voters say the health care bill will be BAD for our country.

Unbalanced and unfair trade agreements began when Clinton signed NAFTA into law. Let's repeal that one too !!!!!!
Gazebo

United States

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#42
Feb 4, 2011
 
sanity wrote:
Remember, we are not a democracy. We are a republic, where the people we elect to represent our interests can tell us one thing and do another. Now that corporations have civil rights and more money, our representatives now represent them instead of us.
Where our gage on how we are doing as a country is Gross National Product, Bhutan's is Gross National Happiness. They gage that by the quality of their lives, health of their environment, and their people.
Maybe we need to change our society's idea of success.
Actually we are a constitutionally limited democratic republic, but why argue about it? The NEW DEAL was socialism, pure and simple, and our country would have crumbled without it. We weren't around then so they get to do it to us this time because we don't learn as a nation.
Gazebo

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#43
Feb 4, 2011
 
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>
I see the left as doing the exact same thing with only having the illusion that they're for the, "little guy". The, "middle guy" always gets trashed regardless who is in office.
This country and it's growing debt and problems has been a complete bipartisan effort, IMO.
I am no supporter of Obama. As I said, I see little difference in policy on things that matter to me (privacy, sunshine in governance, equal rights, constitutional adherence, not funneling tax dollars to the banksters, etc). NOBODY is for the little guy, and the middle always gets stuck holding the bag. All for the benifit of the very, very few individuals and banks and multinational corporations. The only difference is rhetoric, I understand that. But words have meaning and have influence. I would rather our leaders give lip service to hope, enlightenment, equality, the commons, and openness than leaders who focus on greed, deregulation, and rampant exploitation of our dwindling resources.

Since: Sep 10

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#44
Feb 4, 2011
 
Gazebo wrote:
<quoted text>
I am no supporter of Obama. As I said, I see little difference in policy on things that matter to me (privacy, sunshine in governance, equal rights, constitutional adherence, not funneling tax dollars to the banksters, etc). NOBODY is for the little guy, and the middle always gets stuck holding the bag. All for the benifit of the very, very few individuals and banks and multinational corporations. The only difference is rhetoric, I understand that. But words have meaning and have influence. I would rather our leaders give lip service to hope, enlightenment, equality, the commons, and openness than leaders who focus on greed, deregulation, and rampant exploitation of our dwindling resources.
I would have a lot more respect for Obama if he had reversed much of the Patriot Act and had his Justice Department be proactive against all the Wall Street/Banking fraud.

These things plus our method of taxation and continued involvement as the Worlds police have me convinced they're all the same, Republican and Democrat.

Rhetoric is the cheapest talk of all and their actions are obvious.

There are Corporate Elite in Republican governments and there will be just as many, probably more, at the end of Obama's term. During the age of Obama and Pelosi, nothing was done to correct what the left says it wants. Indeed, the healthcare bill is all set to cultivate a new crop of Corporate Elite. Plus new versions of Government Elite.

We witness here on these forums that the neo-liberal is viewing the middle class as the elite. So I'm pretty well convinced, this, "lip service of hope, enlightenment, equality, the commons, and openness" is promoting class bigotry and the extremists on the left, and dividing us even further.
Alien Nation

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#45
Feb 5, 2011
 
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>
If I say I already have health insurance, then I've already used more then my allotment of I's. And calling me a jerk is communication to you and an offense when done by anyone else.
So called, "lambasting" is nothing more then refusing to be controlled by the emotion of others.
I knew a long time ago my self esteem and independence along with my refusal to court your anger makes me your nemesis.
So be it.
But this is a perfect example where my family and I, and OTHERS like me, wish only to be left alone. Where you and others like you expect something from us. I've even heard the words, you DEMAND something from us. We, yes, WE, simply don't want to be part of YOUR GREED.
Your presumption is showing and it would go to the extent where your desire to feed off those with more then you will burden US to the point of being your slaves. And that is your high and mighty evolved conscientiousness, your enlightenment, nothing more nothing less.
Sorry for this version of, "lambasting".....not .
How convenient for you. I have no need of help and am not a burden as you suggest - I only speak out for those that struggle and have compassion for their plight and seek a humanitarian solution. Go ahead and stash your cash for all I care - you can answer for your selfishness - I only wish to encourage those with hearts to help their fellow Americans do what they can for our country rather than lecture and cast a cold shoulder...
sanity

Redding, CA

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#46
Feb 5, 2011
 
Medical insurance does not insure decent medical care, in fact, the HMO's almost always guarantee that they will not find out what is wrong with you. It is other countries that are finding environmental or genetic causes for our illnesses, while we just line up for our pills instead.

When profit is the motive, care is not the concern. We need to get our county free hospitals back, like they were back in the 50's. Where a doctor gets a decent wage, where teachers, doctors and lawyers live in the same neighborhoods, like they used to.

Respectful effort, you live in a society, there is a cost to maintaining that society. Not everyone is smart, not everyone is sane, and not everyone is healthy. How those less fortunate than you live, reflects on us, as human beings, and society as a whole. If we allow the less fortunate to starve on the street or to suffer, it diminishes us all.
Orv

San Jose, CA

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#47
Feb 5, 2011
 
sanity wrote:
Medical insurance does not insure decent medical care, in fact, the HMO's almost always guarantee that they will not find out what is wrong with you. It is other countries that are finding environmental or genetic causes for our illnesses, while we just line up for our pills instead.
When profit is the motive, care is not the concern. We need to get our county free hospitals back, like they were back in the 50's. Where a doctor gets a decent wage, where teachers, doctors and lawyers live in the same neighborhoods, like they used to.
Respectful effort, you live in a society, there is a cost to maintaining that society. Not everyone is smart, not everyone is sane, and not everyone is healthy. How those less fortunate than you live, reflects on us, as human beings, and society as a whole. If we allow the less fortunate to starve on the street or to suffer, it diminishes us all.
Well said Sanity
Gazebo

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#48
Feb 5, 2011
 
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>I would have a lot more respect for Obama if he had reversed much of the Patriot Act and had his Justice Department be proactive against all the Wall Street/Banking fraud.
He is a corporatist, so that will never happen. The last candidate who was not in the pocket of corps. was Bobby Kennedy, and look at how that turned out. The plutocracy saw an actual threat and took it out.
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>
These things plus our method of taxation and continued involvement as the Worlds police have me convinced they're all the same, Republican and Democrat. There are Corporate Elite in Republican governments and there will be just as many, probably more, at the end of Obama's term.
Yes and most of my posts are an attempt to convince others of the same. The climate on here (and in RB as a whole) seems to be that if we 'got rid of those commie liberals, things would be golden'. Which I know you are aware of, I used your post to comment on so that I was not responding to blather.
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text> We witness here on these forums that the neo-liberal is viewing the middle class as the elite. So I'm pretty well convinced, this, "lip service of hope, enlightenment, equality, the commons, and openness" is promoting class bigotry and the extremists on the left, and dividing us even further.
You are doing and saying the same things but coming from a different perspective. You are displaying the conservative lip service, and doing it in a mean and divisive way. Who on here defines the elite as middle class??? How does the idea of 'the commons' threaten you so much??? Our founding fathers (even the jerkhole ones like Adams and Jackson) understood the concept and agreed. class bigotry??? caused by hope and enlightenment??? Are you CERTAIN that the class warfare is not due to social/political inequality??? A CEO who recieves 300,000 times the pay of the lowest paid worker on the floor is the root cause of class warfare. Bigotry???? you mean like Rhondarr (upper middle class) wanting to castrate the homeless? In our perverted society, money = rightness, and until that changes there will be problems.

As far as the healthcare bill, I am ALL FOR socialized medicine. But i will DROP MY CURRENT POLICY on the VERY DAY that it becomes manditory. And will never have insurance again. They can put me in prison, if need be but I will NOT be COMPELLED to fill the pockets of big pharma by LEGAL DECREE. What a sham! The way to fix medical care in this country is to remove insurance companies from the picture completely! Forcing everybody to purchase insurance, regardless of affordability or need is NOT compliant with the constitution and I will not tow the line. Period

Since: Sep 10

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#49
Feb 5, 2011
 
Alien Nation wrote:
<quoted text>How convenient for you. I have no need of help and am not a burden as you suggest - I only speak out for those that struggle and have compassion for their plight and seek a humanitarian solution. Go ahead and stash your cash for all I care - you can answer for your selfishness - I only wish to encourage those with hearts to help their fellow Americans do what they can for our country rather than lecture and cast a cold shoulder...
I haven't suggested you're a burden or in need of help, in that sense.

Like it or not, you and yours will still have to live with me and mine, and we will have to do the same for you.
All your senseless posturing, insults, and meanness won't change that.

As I eluded too before. Given the opportunity, people like you given power have enough hate and all the other ingredients that would have those like me lined up and sent to camps. I honestly sense that from you and that's the point I was making about you needing help.

Now...Aside from me being favorite guy to hate.... what is your goal here?
Do you want those that pay their bills to supply free dental care to people who don't brush their teeth? Free cancer treatment to those who smoke? Heart transplants to habitually lethargic people? Liver transplants to alcoholics?

Since we already pay for medical care for the poor, even those here illegally. Children get free dental in schools. Medicare/Medical....And those who are disabled have Social Security. Everyone has some type of system. And yet this country has the highest cancer survival rate in the world. Even above those that have the health care you clamor for.

No, I think with you it's about something else. And since I'm one of the most unassuming guy's around, you tell me what it is.

Since: Sep 10

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#50
Feb 5, 2011
 
sanity wrote:
...
Respectful effort, you live in a society, there is a cost to maintaining that society. Not everyone is smart, not everyone is sane, and not everyone is healthy. How those less fortunate than you live, reflects on us, as human beings, and society as a whole. If we allow the less fortunate to starve on the street or to suffer, it diminishes us all.
Who suffers and are dying in the streets?

And...the examples you might come up with....Should my children forgo a college education to pay for those less fortunate?

And I ask you the same questions I asked of Alien Nation.

Since: Sep 10

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#51
Feb 5, 2011
 
Gazebo wrote:
<quoted text>
...You are doing and saying the same things but coming from a different perspective. You are displaying the conservative lip service, and doing it in a mean and divisive way. Who on here defines the elite as middle class??? How does the idea of 'the commons' threaten you so much??? Our founding fathers (even the jerkhole ones like Adams and Jackson) understood the concept and agreed. class bigotry??? caused by hope and enlightenment??? Are you CERTAIN that the class warfare is not due to social/political inequality???...
Perhaps....but I very consistently even in this thread, make sure that I include BOTH partys and everyone in power as the enemy.
As opposed to your recent post that gave praises to mere lip service, dishonest lip service, above maybe more honest lip service.

As far as the class bigots. There have been many defining moments here. The best one I think was when Red Bluff Robert made an arbitrary statement, "Those rich kids who play sports at Corning high school."

And then of course....anything that Under God/Evolved Conscientiousness/WeR1/Alien Nation puts out qualifys IMO.
Her recent post on the Bill Borror Land easement trust article was a perfect example. Bill is hardly what I call middle class, but with Alien Nation, I get that anyone with a few bucks in a savings account is no more then a pig.

No Gazebo, I think we're still good....you just caught me with my helmet on. ;-)
Robert Red Bluff

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#52
Feb 5, 2011
 

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Ok Respectful Effort I guess it's on again;

lets just say I have some personal experience with schools. I have witnessed the rich kids parents dominate the school. The school will move heaven and earth to assure a sports program while dumping science education and few teachers along the way. They are the individuals who are making 250,000 plus dollars a year in a town with a per-family income rate of about 32,500. They completely dominate the school boards and they dominate who and why someone is hired or fired. It is just that simple. I have seen teachers hired simply because of their athletic background and what that might mean to coaching their kids. I've seen good teachers fired because they lacked a background in athletics. The point is public schools are political entities in our society. Like it or not.

Since: Sep 10

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#53
Feb 5, 2011
 
Robert Red Bluff wrote:
Ok Respectful Effort I guess it's on again;
lets just say I have some personal experience with schools. I have witnessed the rich kids parents dominate the school. The school will move heaven and earth to assure a sports program while dumping science education and few teachers along the way. They are the individuals who are making 250,000 plus dollars a year in a town with a per-family income rate of about 32,500. They completely dominate the school boards and they dominate who and why someone is hired or fired. It is just that simple. I have seen teachers hired simply because of their athletic background and what that might mean to coaching their kids. I've seen good teachers fired because they lacked a background in athletics. The point is public schools are political entities in our society. Like it or not.
I'm not sure what's, "on" again.

I have 3 adult daughters that spent their entire high school years at Corning High. My family's income was roughly about the same as the facultys.

They had many friends that played sports that had far less income then we, some had the same and some had more. And my wife or I in all those years never experienced anything close to what you're talking about....except yes...Public schools are huge bureaucracy's.

Except they are controlled by those that make the kind of money you're talking about from WITHIN the system. And bureaucracy's by their very own nature doesn't like outside intervention that may upset their own control.

Again, I'm thinking when you see a new shiny SUV pull up into the parking lot and a bunch of cheerleaders emerge while you're kicking the bald tires on the old Chevy pickup....you have might have a bad case of envy?

I don't know Robert...you tell me. Get honest now and try not to make it up.
Robert Red Bluff

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#54
Feb 5, 2011
 
Respectful Effort;

I'm not attempting to bad-mouth sports. I'm simply sharing my own experience. I watched the wealthy and connected control a school. It just happened. When you have a school of several hundred and the major budget concerns circle around 11 basketball players I call that unbalanced and unfair.
Questions like should we hire a science teacher and support a science lab or should we build a new Gym? The Gym gets built nearly everytime. Those with money are not that worried about their kids science education because they are going to get that in their-already paid for- college education. Those without money are going to left out. It works that way and I wish, through awareness, that it didn't. Yes, I do envy those families with 1000 acre olive farms that have been passed down. I do envy some of what you're talking about. I don't hate those people and I check my envy at the door, because I have a great deal to be thankful about even if I'll never be wealthy.
Gazebo

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#55
Feb 5, 2011
 

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Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>Perhaps....but I very consistently even in this thread, make sure that I include BOTH partys and everyone in power as the enemy.
As opposed to your recent post that gave praises to mere lip service, dishonest lip service, above maybe more honest lip service.
As far as the class bigots. There have been many defining moments here. The best one I think was when Red Bluff Robert made an arbitrary statement, "Those rich kids who play sports at Corning high school."
And then of course....anything that Under God/Evolved Conscientiousness/WeR1/Alien Nation puts out qualifys IMO.
Her recent post on the Bill Borror Land easement trust article was a perfect example. Bill is hardly what I call middle class, but with Alien Nation, I get that anyone with a few bucks in a savings account is no more then a pig.
No Gazebo, I think we're still good....you just caught me with my helmet on. ;-)
My skin is thick, and you caught me right after psych class where I usually leave angry.

Since: Sep 10

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#56
Feb 5, 2011
 

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NICE post Robert, thanks for the help.
Robert Red Bluff wrote:
Respectful Effort;
I'm not attempting to bad-mouth sports. I'm simply sharing my own experience. I watched the wealthy and connected control a school. It just happened. When you have a school of several hundred and the major budget concerns circle around 11 basketball players I call that unbalanced and unfair.
Questions like should we hire a science teacher and support a science lab or should we build a new Gym? The Gym gets built nearly everytime.
I could care less about school sports, none of my daughters had an interest. At Corning the gym came with the school. There were private community groups who would donate time effort and money to keep up the fields.
All the students would benefit one way another though.

Back when my kids were in high school, the '90's, there were enough Science, Math, and English classes to pass or fail any student. I did notice some of what you are talking about though.
I noticed that the parents who showed up at the PTA meetings, school events, and those who generally took a proactive effort in their children's education, those that invested their time, money, and efforts being involved, did have some influence.
Generally extra involvement and extra efforts will gravitate to extra-curricular, both for parents and students.....all students who only have the desire.
I noticed their influence by simply participating. I noticed their indirect influence as well, the influences of their kids being more involved. Including influencing in a positive way the students where the priorities at home were different.
Robert Red Bluff wrote:
. Those with money are not that worried about their kids science education because they are going to get that in their-already paid for- college education. Those without money are going to left out. It works that way and I wish, through awareness, that it didn't.
If I'm understanding your premise, I have to disagree with you in regards to ,"science" or any other High school curriculum not being a worry for families prioritizing a college education. All grades are an important factor when furthering an education.

Those families without money were, "not left out". Those families without money who made it a priority to be involved with their children's education generally produced more involved students.

I noticed the families who were involved with school got more out of everything that was offered, including science. Were many entrenched families in the area? Yes, many were, but it seemed like the only criteria was these families make it a priority to be involved in their children's education.

To me this isn't a bad thing for every student regardless of their own economic status in the community. The science class is generally pumping out some fine students depending more on the priorities of the individual families.
That type of priority always seems to find a way to obtain further education, rich or poor.

I'm not convinced this is so much of an economic choice other then this type of priority will produce positive dynamics with all involved. Many times I've stood shoulder to shoulder on graduation day with the poorest in our community watching their student graduate with honors.
Robert Red Bluff wrote:
. Yes, I do envy those families with 1000 acre olive farms that have been passed down. I do envy some of what you're talking about. I don't hate those people and I check my envy at the door, because I have a great deal to be thankful about even if I'll never be wealthy.
I love your admission to being envious. I too have to admit, I get it sometimes myself. I think we all do at varying degrees.

Please don't take this the wrong way as I encourage you to be so honest back at me.....I accept that you don't, "hate those people." But you don't come across with what you write on Topix as someone who has a lot to be thankful for.
Am I reading you this wrong?
Orv

San Jose, CA

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#57
Feb 10, 2011
 

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Part of my last letter Chip left out
“According to the USDA, only 8 percent of farm producers receive 78 percent of subsidies. At the top of the subsidy food chain, huge corporate operations receive payments in the millions, while the average for 80 percent of farmers is under $1,000. According to a new report from the Government Accountability
Office (GAO), the DOD lacks significant management controls that would ensure proper reuse of items purchased by the military. Over the last three years, the Pentagon disposed of $33 billion in excess
equipment, of which $4 billion was reported to be in new, unused, or excellent condition. The problem is that DOD units reutilized only $495 million or about 12 percent of those items. The remaining $3.5 billion in items were transferred or donated outside of DOD, sold for pennies on the dollar, or even destroyed.
World Trade Organization confirms that a $4bn export subsidy programmed for some of America's best known companies violates global trade rules. A WTO rejection of the US appeal against an earlier
judgment in favor of the European Union will pave the way for Brussels to slap up to $4bn in retaliatory sanctions on US goods, a move which Washington has described -- falsely -- as a "nuclear weapon".
Respectful effort

Chico, CA

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#58
Feb 11, 2011
 
Orv wrote:
Part of my last letter Chip left out
“According to the USDA, only 8 percent of farm producers receive 78 percent of subsidies. At the top of the subsidy food chain, huge corporate operations receive payments in the millions, while the average for 80 percent of farmers is under $1,000. According to a new report from the Government Accountability
Office (GAO), the DOD lacks significant management controls that would ensure proper reuse of items purchased by the military. Over the last three years, the Pentagon disposed of $33 billion in excess
equipment, of which $4 billion was reported to be in new, unused, or excellent condition. The problem is that DOD units reutilized only $495 million or about 12 percent of those items. The remaining $3.5 billion in items were transferred or donated outside of DOD, sold for pennies on the dollar, or even destroyed.
World Trade Organization confirms that a $4bn export subsidy programmed for some of America's best known companies violates global trade rules. A WTO rejection of the US appeal against an earlier
judgment in favor of the European Union will pave the way for Brussels to slap up to $4bn in retaliatory sanctions on US goods, a move which Washington has described -- falsely -- as a "nuclear weapon".
The problem with all of this Orv, is neither political party is in the slightest bit interested in correcting this situation.
Orv

San Jose, CA

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#59
Feb 11, 2011
 
Respectful effort wrote:
<quoted text>The problem with all of this Orv, is neither political party is in the slightest bit interested in correcting this situation.
I must admit your right Respectful. I just wanted to point out other drains in our economy.

Since: Sep 10

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#60
Feb 11, 2011
 
I think it makes sense that the Republicans and the Democrats change this before we add other drains to the economy.

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