Moran announces $30 million mixed-use development coming to Ocean Springs

Feb 20, 2013 Full story: The Mississippi Press 12

Upon her arrival, Moran announced she had been on the phone with developer Walker Thrash, who informed her financing had been approved for the $30 million Township of Ocean Springs mixed-use development on U.S. 90 -- which is, ironically, directly across the highway from Coffee Fusion, where the Wednesday morning breakfast was held.

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Gulf

Moss Point, MS

#1 Feb 20, 2013
Not sure what moron banker approved this but hey, their money not mine. The venture will benefit the city @ first due to property taxes but its going to be half empty. No one will buy condos on the bayou. There are already empty condos over there by the old Sonic.

Half the "retail space" by Walmart is empty.

Who's gonna go here? Nobody.

Again, whoever is wasting 30 mil on this is insane but again -- hey, their money.

Good luck with the project, even though it'll probably fail. After all -- where's the retail gonna come from? There's already an excess of retail in the city & hairbrained overdevelopment in various parts of the city.
Calvin

Gulfport, MS

#2 Feb 20, 2013
Gulf wrote:
Not sure what moron banker approved this but hey, their money not mine. The venture will benefit the city @ first due to property taxes but its going to be half empty. No one will buy condos on the bayou. There are already empty condos over there by the old Sonic.

Half the "retail space" by Walmart is empty.

Who's gonna go here? Nobody.

Again, whoever is wasting 30 mil on this is insane but again -- hey, their money.

Good luck with the project, even though it'll probably fail. After all -- where's the retail gonna come from? There's already an excess of retail in the city & hairbrained overdevelopment in various parts of the city.
What a negative nancy.
OS Resident

Ocean Springs, MS

#3 Feb 20, 2013
I'm more concerned about the funding for the 17 acre park the article mentions. Hope our taxes aren't going to go up (again) to pay for that.
Gulf

Moss Point, MS

#4 Feb 21, 2013
Calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
What a negative nancy.
Have you seen the strip malls by Walmart in Ocean Springs? They're half empty. The old Walmart shopping plaza is still a third empty. There are empty retail spots in the Winn Dixie shopping plaza.

There are condos on the bayou over by Hartz Chicken/Sonic that aren't filled. There are condos in Gulf Park Estates unfilled.

Again why spend money to build MORE "retail space" or condos when there's no tenant to fill it?

They actually did this sorta crap in Japan in the 90s after they had their own real estate bust. They did the same thing in Spain in the previous decade. Right now you can go to Spain & find HUGE shopping malls half empty or totally empty. HUGE New Orleans sized airports, international type airports where no planes fly into.

Japan has the same thing. They have enormous bridges "to nowhere" that only a handful of drivers use because there isn't any industry to back it up. Retail will "build itself" when the demand from expansion of population forces the business opportunity to free itself, that's the free market.

Building expensive retail & then having your bank eventually take hard losses on empty real estate won't make Saks Fifth Ave & Gucci put "botiques" into real estate here.

Have you been to Singing River Mall lately? There's a reason its 2/3 empty. And look @ downtown OS -- that's a revolving door of "retail" businesses that come in, fail, rinse out, & then the cycle repeats when another sucker comes in to try their capital on the location.

Why are we "building retail" when you have empty strip malls in half the city already? Doesn't make a lot of sense does it? They're building "for building sake." Meaning they don't know how to do anything else. Its probably a real estate developer who doesn't know any other kind of trade or invest class. He builds real estate to build it, because he or she doesn't know how to do anything else.

And any time you hear that loaded term "mixed retail/residential" -- that's a code term for a random slop of empty buildings that will become eyesores in 5 years time.

Just like Pascagoula's pie-in-the-sky "riverfront" scheme. Or Gautier's "nature's playground"/"main street" nonsense they're trying to develop by the mall. Ingalls just said its not going to be putting any of its workers into that "office building to nowhere" they're gonna build in downtown Pascagoula. They built that pointless parking garage in downtown Goula....that nobody freaking uses! lol

Its a "parking garage to nowhere." Pascagoula said it was going to do a "mixed retail/residential" development on its riverfront. And no "anchor" tenant like Ingalls. Leave & come back & visit in 5 years & I guarantee it'll be half(or more) empty because THERE'S NO DEMAND. The city is forcing the building thru the use of "development" muni bonds. But if Pascagoula & Gautier & OS & D'Iberville & everybody are doing these "mixed retail/residential" developments....eventually they begin to eat into each others' market share no? One city has to lose while the other gains. There's an over abundance of strip malls & "retail space" now that sits empty. Adding more won't make businesses for them or shops for them materialize out of thin air.

You have an excess of real estate supply & a "recess" or lack of DEMAND & money for customers to spend @ these locales.
Gulf

Moss Point, MS

#5 Feb 21, 2013
To add a bit more -- this is high school level economics.

Supply & demand. If there was a lot of gold -- would gold be worth a lot? No. Its worth a lot because its rare, because there's a shortage of SUPPLY.

When you have the real estate @ the strip malls @ the Walmarts in D'Iberville & OS EMPTY then WHAT IS THE POINT in adding to the regional supply?

When HALF the supply of the available "storefronts" @ Singing River MALL are empty, why would adding MORE cause valuations to rise?

If you have the empty Winn Dixie parking lot or the half empty old Delchamps parking lot -- what's the point?

If you increase supply -- rents will GO DOWN because there's MORE COMPETITION for rents.

San Francisco & NYC maintain their crazy high real estate prices because there's a shortage of good real estate.

What Einstein came up with the concept of making MORE REAL ESTATE available & thinking it would HELP rent levels is stupid or crazy, or both.

Ocean Springs, & Gautier, & Pascagoula & Slob Pt. should all focus on filling in the real estate they already have sitting empty before worrying about building another strip mall slash condos that will be way overpriced & that will end up as eyesores & empty store fronts.
Taxpayer

Ocean Springs, MS

#6 Feb 21, 2013
Someone is making an error in good sense to think there is any demand for multistory condos in Ocean Springs.You only have to read the published foreclosures to see many already built condo units up and down the Ms.coast are vacant and being repoed.The only portion of the realestate market that may be weaker is retail.While this article about the development was meant to be positive it is still a long way from an actual start an I do not believe it will happen due to no demand for what is being proposed.Also all lenders require a majority of the condos to be presold.This process has not even begun.Without 70%-80% presold no bank will fund it.Look for no activity a year from now,like the hotel downtown by the same person.
Sheesh

United States

#7 Feb 21, 2013
Dipshit, presold units are currently at over 70 % as was required by the lender. Again you are an idiot who loves to ramble and you probably read everything you write out loud because you love the sound of your own voice.
Sheesh

United States

#8 Feb 21, 2013
Just out of curiosity why do the majority of you who dwell in this virtual space take a dump on every single thing that Happens in OS? Take gulf for ex. Who is incapable of offering anything but negativity. I wonder if it is the anonymity of this space that brings out the true you which as anyone can see you are some pretty sad cases incapable of extending an atta boy when it comes to this city.
Taxpayer

Ocean Springs, MS

#9 Feb 21, 2013
If presales are at 70% without any marketing or sale office/activty on site you will be the next Pope because that would be a real miracle.Asked the last developer who proposed a condo development on Hyway 90 just down the street.After spending over a million dollars promoting this project across the Southeast he gave up.You know why? No demand for this product type in this market.The same will be found out by this owner, Mr.Thrash.The old adage of "build it and they will come" does not work on the Ms.Gulf Coast.Single family homes are really the only thing selling and at a discounted price.
Gulf

Moss Point, MS

#10 Feb 21, 2013
Taxpayer wrote:
Someone is making an error in good sense to think there is any demand for multistory condos in Ocean Springs.You only have to read the published foreclosures to see many already built condo units up and down the Ms.coast are vacant and being repoed.The only portion of the realestate market that may be weaker is retail.While this article about the development was meant to be positive it is still a long way from an actual start an I do not believe it will happen due to no demand for what is being proposed.Also all lenders require a majority of the condos to be presold.This process has not even begun.Without 70%-80% presold no bank will fund it.Look for no activity a year from now,like the hotel downtown by the same person.
Oh really? This is the same idiot pushing the downtown hotel?

In...lol....Ocean Springs?? Like I said, hey his money but geez he must be a nice guy to drop so much revenue on this city. they must be tired of chasing negative yield in treasuries or something if they're willing to put up such a massive quantity of capital on this podunk backwater town.

30 MILLION for Ocean Springs...I wonder if its like you said -- just a lot of hot air & talk....
Gulf

Moss Point, MS

#11 Feb 21, 2013
Sheesh wrote:
Just out of curiosity why do the majority of you who dwell in this virtual space take a dump on every single thing that Happens in OS? Take gulf for ex. Who is incapable of offering anything but negativity. I wonder if it is the anonymity of this space that brings out the true you which as anyone can see you are some pretty sad cases incapable of extending an atta boy when it comes to this city.
So you base your financial decisions....on feeling? Not logic & analysis?

I read the data & "read" what I see with my own eyes. Half the Winn Dixie plaza is empty. Half the units @ the strip malls by Walmart...are empty. Even in D'Iberville half the units by Walmart are unoccupied & I guarantee the rents are firesale low or will be very soon as the economy continues to stumble along.

You ever hear the phrase "hope in one hand & sh*t in the other & see which one fills up first?" I'm not going to bring my personal political beliefs but if you must know I tend to lean Democratic. But even I'm smart enough to know that Obama's "hope" slogans are just nonsense designed to get otherwise poor or desperate sad people worked up & excited even though no matter even if he got a solid Democratic majority in both houses of congress he still continue do a miracle & pull the economy out of the sh*tter in 3 or 4 years time.

In the same way -- you can have all the "hope" & "atta boy" good will you want but its not gonna change fundamental economic reality. And that's that when I was younger even 20 years ago the shipyard had 30k jobs that supported many people who lived in Ocean Springs & Jackson Co.

Now that there are only 9k or so jobs left @ that shipyard -- where the hell do those 20k plus people work? Probably in retail for a fraction of their former salaries.

You can't take away high paying union-protected shipyard jobs, replace them with a bunch of crap paying "McJobs" at Sonic or Super Walmart & expect to have the same demand.

The problem is that people don't have as much cash flow as they did 10 years ago. People are overly indebted on everything from car debt to credit cards to student loans to underwater mortgages.

Its not anything really that any local politician is doing. Its just the broader economy & the decline in the traditional manufacturing economy that helped build this region.

The homeport in Pascagoula, is also gone. Those shipyard jobs that Trent Lott & Gene Taylor protected for us, are gone, as are those 2 good old boys.

My family wouldn't even be in this region, & I think there are probably tens of thousands of other locals like me, if it wasn't for that shipyard. My family came here over 40 years ago(Trent Lott was the same, his dad was a shipyard worker) to work @ that yard.

As the region's economy declined -- all I've been able to find is crap service work. The oil spill actually was the best work I've had in years, & in comparison to other parts of the country, the pay was nothing.

Ocean Springs needs 10k shipyard jobs propping up spending in the local economy. Not more useless bars & "retail" jobs that pay 9 dollars an hour(if that).

The problem is that we have a service economy & a mountain of debt & irrationally high real estate prices propping up local govts. And the market is correcting that.

It has nothing to do with being a "negative nancy" or whichever term you wish to use. It has to do with there aren't as many high paying jobs around any more to prop up people or their spending. It really is that simple.

And without those high paying jobs you have low wages & debt.

And I think most people around here know this, but just won't say it. And I think a lot of ppl around here are like me -- if we could find a better job in another region -- we'd leave. But we're stuck here because we were hoping for a turnaround @ the shipyard or related industry that never materialized.
Taxpayer

Ocean Springs, MS

#12 Feb 22, 2013
The renderings are always pretty,the proforma always positive but the reality is this type of multi-story mixed use development in this location at this time is a recipe for financial disaster.I hope the city has not committed to spend one penny on this private development.Not only can they not afford to but the chances of this ever happening are very low.Just look at the proposed mixed use developments that were proposed and never happened like the old driving range property across Hyway 90,Front Beach Condos,Government&Pine, Ft.Bayou Condos east of the bridge, ect,ect,ect.And these are just in Ocean Springs.Be cautious city leaders.Renderings are only pretty pictures.

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