Rep. Dennis Kucinich opposes new jobs...
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mapleman

Bedford, OH

#42 Jun 30, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
What Republicans want to return to is the ability of industry to determine the wages of their employees--not government or unions.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297...
Again, I find that most Republicans that talk like this have little understanding of the history of the United States workforce. Most people will not determine their wages. They will do what companies tell them to do. You seem think to highly of workers. Most can easily be replaced.

We already use a lot of tactics to take your rights away. We hire you has independent contractors so that you guys are technically not employees, but in the end you are treated like employees. We put you guys on salary to avoid overtime. We know you guys think it's cool to say salary. lol

Determine your own value. What a joke. We determine what we pay, you don't like it, starve.

As for Canada, why are you Republicans that aren't rich so concerned about the corporate tax rate? Do you know anything about taxes, overseas holdings and so forth? What do you guys even know about tax avoidance? Stop fighting for the rich, they can take care of themselves.

If my offshore corporation deals with a client in Europe and a worker in some third world country, the United States can't touch the money until it is brought back here. I'm a little guy, the big guys do this on a much, much larger scale. Stop worrying about the corporate tax rate.

Why don't you guys try to think like corporations instead of fighting for them?
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#43 Jun 30, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
Again, I find that most Republicans that talk like this have little understanding of the history of the United States workforce. Most people will not determine their wages. They will do what companies tell them to do. You seem think to highly of workers. Most can easily be replaced.
As a business owner I do not even determine my pay, it is based on how good of a job my employees do and how well the consumer likes my product. I get what is left at the end of the day.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#44 Jun 30, 2011
And as a business owner, I'm sure you depend on corporations either directly or indirectly. I know I do. That's why I'm interested in keeping companies not only in the US, but in Ohio where they give me work.

The Canada story only serves to show what happens when you make businesses more invited. How do states and major cities lure new companies? That's right, they offer tax abatements.

Lower taxes work. It's what brought us out of a near depression in the early 80's. It's what got us out of a jam in the early 2000's. It's why Texas is growing faster than any other state in the union.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#45 Jun 30, 2011
LostForWords wrote:
<quoted text>
As a business owner I do not even determine my pay, it is based on how good of a job my employees do and how well the consumer likes my product. I get what is left at the end of the day.
You do determine your pay. Every day you should be looking at how to increase your revenue. That is something most people haven't any control over. You and I do. If you want to go in tomorrow and tell people you have to cut their pay, you can do so. What are they going to do about it?

I don't know what industry you are in and how unions and government affect you. If I was in your line of business and unions and governments hurt my bottom line, I would share your views.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#46 Jun 30, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
And as a business owner, I'm sure you depend on corporations either directly or indirectly. I know I do. That's why I'm interested in keeping companies not only in the US, but in Ohio where they give me work.
The Canada story only serves to show what happens when you make businesses more invited. How do states and major cities lure new companies? That's right, they offer tax abatements.
Lower taxes work. It's what brought us out of a near depression in the early 80's. It's what got us out of a jam in the early 2000's. It's why Texas is growing faster than any other state in the union.
I do depend on corporations. Walmart operates overseas. My computers are built there also.I can't complain a bit.

You talk of keeping business here, but take me for instance. As I grow there isn't a reason for me to worry about staying in Ohio, or the United States for that matter. The United States would have to offer me some serious tax breaks that they cannot offer. Plus the labor costs can never be duplicated here.

So take me for instance. How do you propose to get me to stop using foreign workers and move one of my corporations back here? I deal primarily in web development, applications and content. How do you make it attractive for me to hire Ohio workers and keep operations here?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#47 Jun 30, 2011
Your problem is that you think all employees are disposable.

The trucking industry is no different. Sure, you can find drivers for next to nothing, but you better have good insurance because you are going to have a lot of accidents or tickets for that driver.

You get what you pay for. As my father always said: it takes experience even to dig a ditch. He proved that point to me years ago. He hired me and a friend of mine to dig a footer for a porch. My friend was a weight lifter and even had his photographs published for a company selling vitamins.

We dug for hours and proud of what we accomplished. When my father returned, he said "WTF were you doing all this time?" That old guy went into that hole and had a larger pile of dirt than me and my friend in less than an hour. When he was done, that footer looked like it was excavated by a backhoe.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#48 Jun 30, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
I do depend on corporations. Walmart operates overseas. My computers are built there also.I can't complain a bit.
You talk of keeping business here, but take me for instance. As I grow there isn't a reason for me to worry about staying in Ohio, or the United States for that matter. The United States would have to offer me some serious tax breaks that they cannot offer. Plus the labor costs can never be duplicated here.
So take me for instance. How do you propose to get me to stop using foreign workers and move one of my corporations back here? I deal primarily in web development, applications and content. How do you make it attractive for me to hire Ohio workers and keep operations here?
You are encapsulating yourself. Most businesses don't work over a computer. Businesses rely on property, employees, a friendly government and room to grow. That's where job creating methods come to play.

No matter how large your business grows, it doesn't help your fellow Ohioan. You don't produce physical products, you don't ship product, you don't warehouse products, you don't hire people from our state, and your employees don't pay taxes here. That's fine, but it's not how most businesses operate.

But when it comes to taxation and unions, it does effect you. After all, you have to pay these taxes. You have to pay the costs at stores you frequent. The less business a store attracts, the higher prices. In fact, one of the reasons our water and sewer costs are going to double in the coming years is because of depopulation. We no longer share the costs with over a million people. Today, we have to share those costs among a few hundred thousand.

So no matter what field you derive your income, an active state benefits us all.
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#49 Jul 1, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
And as a business owner, I'm sure you depend on corporations either directly or indirectly. I know I do. That's why I'm interested in keeping companies not only in the US, but in Ohio where they give me work.
The Canada story only serves to show what happens when you make businesses more invited. How do states and major cities lure new companies? That's right, they offer tax abatements.
Lower taxes work. It's what brought us out of a near depression in the early 80's. It's what got us out of a jam in the early 2000's. It's why Texas is growing faster than any other state in the union.
Absolutely correct, the only thing I could add is regulations, not many effect my personal business but it does effect those who I purchase supplies from which is a hidden cost to me.

I purchase my supplies from the ones which cost me less, product and shipping cost have to be figured in, so there I agree completely.
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#50 Jul 1, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
You do determine your pay. Every day you should be looking at how to increase your revenue. That is something most people haven't any control over. You and I do. If you want to go in tomorrow and tell people you have to cut their pay, you can do so. What are they going to do about it?
I don't know what industry you are in and how unions and government affect you. If I was in your line of business and unions and governments hurt my bottom line, I would share your views.
I do look for ways to increase revenues but all things must be considered, cost of trade shows, adverting, etc. in a bad economy money is saved more than spent, it's a safety net. I am never sure what tomorrow will bring but during a bad economy one must be safe.

Unions effect us all, just like the cost of goods effect us all whether it's business or personal. If unions get more, the home or new building for my business I might be looking at will cost me more, the car I need for home or business, supplies for my business, groceries, etc, therefore I need to sell more or raise prices just to stay where I was before, just as you do.

As all these thing raise, so does the cost to government for business and individuals. Example; if a car cost 5k you pay taxes on 5k but if the car costs 30k, well no need to break it down more. If wages go up your deductions go up and so do the matching contribution a employer makes to the government. All these things have to be factored in, I am no accountant but what I pointed out is simple logic, an accountant can show you the numbers.

Every new safety rule cost all of us and some help us in the line of safety but many are making people not pay attention, people are not being as cautious they days and relying on government to protect them. Someone climbs a ladder and falls they want to blame/sue the business when they make the mistake, therefore more regulations are created again costing all of us more money and slower work. Example; when I was a teenager I worked roofing, there was no such thing as taping off the edge of the roof, we all knew if we fell it would hurt and hurt bad, today more time and resources are spent showing people where the edge is, sorry but it is not hard to see. If people have gotten that stupid, we as a nation are in real trouble because soon there will be a wall build to put on a roof so they can not fall.
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#51 Jul 1, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
You are encapsulating yourself. Most businesses don't work over a computer. Businesses rely on property, employees, a friendly government and room to grow. That's where job creating methods come to play.
No matter how large your business grows, it doesn't help your fellow Ohioan. You don't produce physical products, you don't ship product, you don't warehouse products, you don't hire people from our state, and your employees don't pay taxes here. That's fine, but it's not how most businesses operate.
But when it comes to taxation and unions, it does effect you. After all, you have to pay these taxes. You have to pay the costs at stores you frequent. The less business a store attracts, the higher prices. In fact, one of the reasons our water and sewer costs are going to double in the coming years is because of depopulation. We no longer share the costs with over a million people. Today, we have to share those costs among a few hundred thousand.
So no matter what field you derive your income, an active state benefits us all.
You are correct, the less taxes and a friendly environment attract business, government and residents. Also a good workforce and when I find a good employee, I do everything I can to keep them. It takes to much to teach someone new and cost me in production time. When someone slacks I then have to figure at what point a new worker will be beneficial to my bottom line.

One problem we have here is lack of educ
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#52 Jul 1, 2011
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
You are encapsulating yourself. Most businesses don't work over a computer. Businesses rely on property, employees, a friendly government and room to grow. That's where job creating methods come to play.
No matter how large your business grows, it doesn't help your fellow Ohioan. You don't produce physical products, you don't ship product, you don't warehouse products, you don't hire people from our state, and your employees don't pay taxes here. That's fine, but it's not how most businesses operate.
But when it comes to taxation and unions, it does effect you. After all, you have to pay these taxes. You have to pay the costs at stores you frequent. The less business a store attracts, the higher prices. In fact, one of the reasons our water and sewer costs are going to double in the coming years is because of depopulation. We no longer share the costs with over a million people. Today, we have to share those costs among a few hundred thousand.
So no matter what field you derive your income, an active state benefits us all.
But you are losing the tech sector. There is no reason for innovative people to open up here. So again I ask, how do you attract businesses of the future. Manufacturing is gone. How do you attract the techies, the engineers and so forth?

And if it behooved me to incorporate in Ohio, my tax dollars would benefit the average Ohioan, but I would be insane to do so in a global market.

That's the problem in Ohio, they want to concentrate on manufacturing when the future is in information and things that you can do over the computer. How do you propose to attract this sector?
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#53 Jul 1, 2011
LostForWords wrote:
<quoted text>
I do look for ways to increase revenues but all things must be considered, cost of trade shows, adverting, etc. in a bad economy money is saved more than spent, it's a safety net. I am never sure what tomorrow will bring but during a bad economy one must be safe.
Unions effect us all, just like the cost of goods effect us all whether it's business or personal. If unions get more, the home or new building for my business I might be looking at will cost me more, the car I need for home or business, supplies for my business, groceries, etc, therefore I need to sell more or raise prices just to stay where I was before, just as you do.
As all these thing raise, so does the cost to government for business and individuals. Example; if a car cost 5k you pay taxes on 5k but if the car costs 30k, well no need to break it down more. If wages go up your deductions go up and so do the matching contribution a employer makes to the government. All these things have to be factored in, I am no accountant but what I pointed out is simple logic, an accountant can show you the numbers.
Every new safety rule cost all of us and some help us in the line of safety but many are making people not pay attention, people are not being as cautious they days and relying on government to protect them. Someone climbs a ladder and falls they want to blame/sue the business when they make the mistake, therefore more regulations are created again costing all of us more money and slower work. Example; when I was a teenager I worked roofing, there was no such thing as taping off the edge of the roof, we all knew if we fell it would hurt and hurt bad, today more time and resources are spent showing people where the edge is, sorry but it is not hard to see. If people have gotten that stupid, we as a nation are in real trouble because soon there will be a wall build to put on a roof so they can not fall.
There are non-union automakers. There is Walmart. Our computers are made overseas. My tomatoes are picked by illegal immigrants. Matter of fact if it wasn't for the cost of truckers these products would be even cheaper. So let's start getting government out of trucking and have our buddy XXX and other truckers hauling our goods for $8/hr just like truckers are paid low in the countries without heavy government regulation. I am all for that!!!!!! I'm sure you are too. But is xxx?

Remember, it is important to remember I am simply arguing that if I were a worker, I would take the $25/hr job over the $15/hr job. I am not pro-union.

XXX is arguing against is own interests. He isn't aware that truckers the world over don't make anything like they make in developed countries. The people that haul the products we receive from South America navigate some of the most dangerous roads in the world and are paid shjt. Do you see how xxx is arguing against his own interests? Truckers in China don't make jack shjt.

Listen. If the State of Ohio wants to end unions for teachers, police men and firemen, I would sign on for it. I am not a teacher, policeman or fireman. If I were one, I wouldn't sign on to it nor would I argue for it. Do you see where I am coming from? I am not pro union.

I don't know how you deal with employees but if you could put them on salary, wouldn't it be wiser than having to pay overtime? Making them independent contractors is even better if you can get away with it. So why would workers want us business owners to set the rules without regulation? It just baffles me to be against your own interests.

I can see where being anti-union is in your interest, but for others I just don't get it.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#54 Jul 1, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
But you are losing the tech sector. There is no reason for innovative people to open up here. So again I ask, how do you attract businesses of the future. Manufacturing is gone. How do you attract the techies, the engineers and so forth?
And if it behooved me to incorporate in Ohio, my tax dollars would benefit the average Ohioan, but I would be insane to do so in a global market.
That's the problem in Ohio, they want to concentrate on manufacturing when the future is in information and things that you can do over the computer. How do you propose to attract this sector?
Tell me, can technology fix your toilet when it breaks? How about those electrical lines when your house all of a sudden loses power and it's not the electric company? Does technology deliver your goods to the store when you need to purchase them? Will technology repair your streets or remodel your bathroom?

There will always be manual labor jobs regardless of technology. And yes, there will always be manufacturing since shipping costs could outweigh making things here. Technology is not going to make your toast in the morning or repair your car.

So we lose jobs in manufacturing. Okay, but few consider the jobs created in their place.

We close down a screw factory because screws from China are much cheaper. Now somebody had to pilot that boat and crew with those imported goods. Those goods are unloaded at a dock. The office has to jumble a bunch of paperwork while the dock guys check, store, and sometimes repackage those screws. From there, trucks and trains are used to transport those screws to warehouses across the country. The system repeats itself as the office people do their job for the imported screws along with the warehouse people. Once that is completed, trucks have to go to those local or regional warehouses and pick up those screws to deliver them to local companies that purchased them. They are unloaded at the company, but some companies have specifications to meet, so they ship those screws to a heat treating or plating company; sometimes both.

All is not totally lost when we lose jobs, but it's not the disaster that some make it to be.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#55 Jul 1, 2011
But jobs you speak of are basically monkey jobs. Look at other countries. What do they pay for jobs anybody can do? Shjt.

Manual labor jobs are hard, but they don't attract innovation. Fixing my toilet and other things is nothing. I can hire a dope fiend to do that. And like I said, the developed world is the only place where truckers or any other form of manual labor make a good living.

In the United States you could be upper middle class working at the post office, FedEx or UPS. Those are monkey jobs.

And this is no disrespect to people that do them. My father was manual labor. But basically all Ohio is going after is monkey jobs. How do they attract innovation?
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#56 Jul 2, 2011
Innovation isn't everything. What can be done to attract jobs to Ohio is what's taking place already. Kasich signed a bill to lower our state taxes, and plans on making Ohio a very business friendly state.

Monkey jobs (as you call them) cannot be done by just anybody. Try repairing your own lawnmower or installing a new breaker box for the electricity in your home. Even a new outlet in a room can be challenging. Ever try laying brick? I have. Trust me, it takes talent and many years of experience.

The point is manual labor jobs will always be with us. And as the younger generations come into the work force, they do so with college educations, much more than when I was young. So the supply and demand market place will take care of the remaining manual labor employees. Kids today are lazy. They were raised with video games instead of a football.

The promise I see for Ohio is the medical industry. We have some of the finest medical facilities in the world. If we can only pass tort reform like Texas, we would be heading in the right direction. Currently, the medical personnel in Texas is growing faster than the population itself percentage wise. The Medical Mart (if it ever gets built) will boost our economy like we've never seen. If Cleveland can only get a Kasich to run the city, he or she could actually renovate our shorelines that currently looks like something from a horror movie. Do you know how many cities would kill to have any kind of shoreline??? But the dopes in Cleveland keep voting in clowns like Action Jackson and Campbell who do absolutely nothing.
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#57 Jul 2, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
There are non-union automakers. There is Walmart. Our computers are made overseas. My tomatoes are picked by illegal immigrants. Matter of fact if it wasn't for the cost of truckers these products would be even cheaper. So let's start getting government out of trucking and have our buddy XXX and other truckers hauling our goods for $8/hr just like truckers are paid low in the countries without heavy government regulation. I am all for that!!!!!! I'm sure you are too. But is xxx?
Remember, it is important to remember I am simply arguing that if I were a worker, I would take the $25/hr job over the $15/hr job. I am not pro-union.
XXX is arguing against is own interests. He isn't aware that truckers the world over don't make anything like they make in developed countries. The people that haul the products we receive from South America navigate some of the most dangerous roads in the world and are paid shjt. Do you see how xxx is arguing against his own interests? Truckers in China don't make jack shjt.
Listen. If the State of Ohio wants to end unions for teachers, police men and firemen, I would sign on for it. I am not a teacher, policeman or fireman. If I were one, I wouldn't sign on to it nor would I argue for it. Do you see where I am coming from? I am not pro union.
I don't know how you deal with employees but if you could put them on salary, wouldn't it be wiser than having to pay overtime? Making them independent contractors is even better if you can get away with it. So why would workers want us business owners to set the rules without regulation? It just baffles me to be against your own interests.
I can see where being anti-union is in your interest, but for others I just don't get it.
As long as the private sector unions keep supporting the public sector unions, the unions are only going to hurt themselves more with every word they utter.
mapleman

Bedford, OH

#58 Jul 2, 2011
Is it harder to fix a lawnmower or design one? Speaking from a computer standpoint, it is much easier to learn to fix one than it is to learn to actually write applications and create. Many more people can be taught monkey jobs compared to people that can be taught jobs that require higher intelligence. There are simply more people with average and below average intelligence than there are smart people.

For every skilled person that can create an application, there are probably 100 people that can easily be taught to lay a brick. But try to get those people to develop and application for Facebook. LOL

I agree that the medical industry is something Ohio can capitalize on. But again, the average person cannot excel in that industry. You have to attract the young and SMART to want to come to Ohio. Not grunts that pick coal out of holes.

Republicans might have the right idea on fiscal issues, but young and smart people are not going to scramble to live in a state turning into one that should be in the bible belt. They will go to a more liberal state.

As for our coastline, the problem is the dumb hicks in other parts of Ohio don't have our coastline so they don't want it developed. The hicks in Columbus and Cincy are more worried about themselves.
LostForWords

Warrensburg, MO

#59 Jul 2, 2011
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
There are non-union automakers. There is Walmart. Our computers are made overseas. My tomatoes are picked by illegal immigrants. Matter of fact if it wasn't for the cost of truckers these products would be even cheaper. So let's start getting government out of trucking and have our buddy XXX and other truckers hauling our goods for $8/hr just like truckers are paid low in the countries without heavy government regulation. I am all for that!!!!!! I'm sure you are too. But is xxx?
Remember, it is important to remember I am simply arguing that if I were a worker, I would take the $25/hr job over the $15/hr job. I am not pro-union.
XXX is arguing against is own interests. He isn't aware that truckers the world over don't make anything like they make in developed countries. The people that haul the products we receive from South America navigate some of the most dangerous roads in the world and are paid shjt. Do you see how xxx is arguing against his own interests? Truckers in China don't make jack shjt.
Listen. If the State of Ohio wants to end unions for teachers, police men and firemen, I would sign on for it. I am not a teacher, policeman or fireman. If I were one, I wouldn't sign on to it nor would I argue for it. Do you see where I am coming from? I am not pro union.
I don't know how you deal with employees but if you could put them on salary, wouldn't it be wiser than having to pay overtime? Making them independent contractors is even better if you can get away with it. So why would workers want us business owners to set the rules without regulation? It just baffles me to be against your own interests.
I can see where being anti-union is in your interest, but for others I just don't get it.
Understand.

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