Atheist group to rip Bible pages in H.B....

Sep 15, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Orange County Register

Members of a grassroots atheist group say they will tear out pages of the Bible at the Huntington Beach pier Saturday to point out what they say is immorality in the book many Christians base their faith on.

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#1831
Feb 1, 2013
 
01Justsayin wrote:
Religious beliefs cannot be analyzed under a microscope.
Literally? No, they cannot.

But they can be analyzed nevertheless. For example, the claim that there was an exodus of Hebrews from Egypt corresponding to the biblical account can be analyzed, and it has been. One of the problem for the biblical claims, for example, is that Hebrew campsites don't have pork bone in them. A crowd of several thousand nomads wandering over a large expanse of desert for forty years doesn't leave no trace of themselves.

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#1832
Feb 1, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Glad you agree and approve, 01justfailing.

Lol Dude, I bend my knee to no man. You are the master of your own imagination. But that's okay. I'm sure they like you there.:)

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#1833
Feb 1, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>You are certainly free to live in your imaginary friend delusion filled world. Just don't expect your betters to trot down Jesus' candy cane lane to superstition with you.
The fact that you have a different belief than I do in no way makes you my better. The fact remains that you can't disprove the existence of God, so your opinion on his existence is not fact. At most all you can do is provide evidence supporting your belief. That doesn't make it proven scientific fact. It's simply your opinion. Which you are entitled to. As am I. Can we move on already or shall we continue to beat this dead horse? As stated by Einstein, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

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#1834
Feb 1, 2013
 

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Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>You agree the two aren't mutually exclusive.

No. Quite the opposite. I do believe the
two are mutually exclusive. They cannot be both true at the same time. For instance, it would be inaccurate for me to assume that just because you have a dick that you are a dick. Even though that is precisely what you're acting like at the moment.

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#1835
Feb 1, 2013
 
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that you have a different belief than I do in no way makes you my better. The fact remains that you can't disprove the existence of God, so your opinion on his existence is not fact. At most all you can do is provide evidence supporting your belief. That doesn't make it proven scientific fact. It's simply your opinion. Which you are entitled to. As am I. Can we move on already or shall we continue to beat this dead horse? As stated by Einstein, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.
Since you're quoting Einstein (in an effort to sound intelligent) how about:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." Albert Einstein.

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#1836
Feb 1, 2013
 
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Quite the opposite. I do believe the
two are mutually exclusive. They cannot be both true at the same time. For instance, it would be inaccurate for me to assume that just because you have a dick that you are a dick. Even though that is precisely what you're acting like at the moment.
I must be frustrating to believe in something that is moral, yet behave so immorally.

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#1837
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text> http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

It aint necessarily so wrote, "Your bible teaches the hatred of unbelievers "



01Justsayin wrote, "I don't deny the presence of violence in the Bible."

That's good. But it is unrelated to your claim and my rebuttal

01Justsayin wrote, "Push back against what exactly? Religion? The Bible? Hate in general? "

The Christian church in America and the West. We want its influence limited to the lives of volunteers, not unbelievers.

01Justsayin wrote, "Tell me, exactly how do I or my choice to believe in God fall into that? "

Your choice to believe is yours.

But opinions that support a belief in the Christian god or praise faith, and those that support organized religion and the church, need to be rebutted in an effort to shrink and weaken the church's cultural hegemony.

The problems caused by the church need to be emphasized, especially Christian homophobia, atheophobia, and anti-scientism, which all need to be denounced strongly. And the virtues of reason, skepticism, naturalism and humanism as an alternative need to be discussed.

In a nutshell, we need humanism to grow and Christianity to shrink, especially in America.
Once again, your ability to quote me is astounding. Thou art truly a master quoter. Listen, I'm in agreement on the whole growth of humanism thing. I'm all about equality. I'm also cool with the death of the religious institution as a
whole. By all means, let's get back to the basics of our faith (those of us who have faith). No man has the right to judge or condemn the other for their beliefs...or the lack thereof. Especially when doing so behind the guise of Christianity. But that's not what the teachings of Jesus (the Savior of the christian faith) are all about. That's religion. That's man-made. It's much different from the faith itself. The virtues of reason that you speak of are valuable and pertinent to the human experience. "I think. Therefore I am" and all that. The basis of hate that you speak of is the same no matter what title it chooses to hide itself behind. Hate is bad. Perhaps you might consider focusing more on the hate, as well as the individuals performing said acts of hate, rather than the belief itself. Or not directing it toward those of us who strive to live peaceably with our fellow man. If a tree refuses to grow, you trim the branches. You don't cut down the entire tree.

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#1838
Feb 1, 2013
 
Your beliefs are shaped by warm fuzzy feelings and opinions whereas mine are shaped by fact and reason. Again you may certainly live in the chains of delusion and superstition just as the raving old man on the street screaming about demonic armies forming in the ally.

There are no differences between your delusions and his. Again feel free to live like that but don't think that us people of reason and progress will take your fantasy imagination god delusion anymore seriously than the old nutter in my example. Could you prove his demonic army wasn't forming in the ally? You would scoff at the suggestion! Why? Reason and facts would make you walk away chuckling at the old loon.

But you would make just as unfounded delusional statements about your god as he made about the demonic army.

We non believers are your betters in matters of facts and reason. We walk by chuckling at both delusional people the old man raving about the demonic army and you raving about this god.

Sorry but your or anyone's opinion does not equal actual facts.

We have facts you have opinion.
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that you have a different belief than I do in no way makes you my better. The fact remains that you can't disprove the existence of God, so your opinion on his existence is not fact. At most all you can do is provide evidence supporting your belief. That doesn't make it proven scientific fact. It's simply your opinion. Which you are entitled to. As am I. Can we move on already or shall we continue to beat this dead horse? As stated by Einstein, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity.

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#1839
Feb 1, 2013
 
You obviously have never read the bible or studied ancient Christians. Not that your ignorance surprises anyone at this point.

We don't even have historical proof ways existed.
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, your ability to quote me is astounding. Thou art truly a master quoter. Listen, I'm in agreement on the whole growth of humanism thing. I'm all about equality. I'm also cool with the death of the religious institution as a
whole. By all means, let's get back to the basics of our faith (those of us who have faith). No man has the right to judge or condemn the other for their beliefs...or the lack thereof. Especially when doing so behind the guise of Christianity. But that's not what the teachings of Jesus (the Savior of the christian faith) are all about. That's religion. That's man-made. It's much different from the faith itself. The virtues of reason that you speak of are valuable and pertinent to the human experience. "I think. Therefore I am" and all that. The basis of hate that you speak of is the same no matter what title it chooses to hide itself behind. Hate is bad. Perhaps you might consider focusing more on the hate, as well as the individuals performing said acts of hate, rather than the belief itself. Or not directing it toward those of us who strive to live peaceably with our fellow man. If a tree refuses to grow, you trim the branches. You don't cut down the entire tree.
Thinking

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#1840
Feb 1, 2013
 
You don't get logic, do you?
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Quite the opposite. I do believe the
two are mutually exclusive. They cannot be both true at the same time. For instance, it would be inaccurate for me to assume that just because you have a dick that you are a dick. Even though that is precisely what you're acting like at the moment.

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#1841
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>No. Because it is harmful and intrusive.

And our goal should not be to destroy anything except the church's unwelcome influence in the lives of unbelievers. If the Christians could keep their religion confined to their hearts,minds,homes and churches, we could get along. But they won't. They have to be pushed out of our lives. Once that is accomplished, whatever remains of the church is of no consequence except to believers, as it should be.

Do you disagree?

01Justsayin wrote, " Who's violent and hateful now?"

Do you mean me? I just want your church out of the lives of unbelievers. I want it out of government. I don't want if affecting elections or laws. And I don't want it telling Americans who to scapegoat based on values that only Christians respect.

I have no hate for anybody, and I oppose violence. My contempt is for abstractions: an ideology and the institution that spreads it called Christianity and the Christian church - not people.

Do you disagree that we have the moral right to do that?
Wow. Just...wow. Your ability to be overly literal never ceases to amaze me. I am not the entire Christian church. I am only a member thereof. My actions are my own. I am not accountable for the actions of others. Only mine. Do you have a moral right to oppose that which you don't agree with? Absolutely. Is Jihad necessary? Not really. The same is true of Christians and atheists alike. I understand the hurt you must have felt at the hands of people who grossly misrepresent the teachings of the Savior they claim to serve. I'm genuinely sorry for that. Please note that they don't just do that to unbelievers. They do that to their own as well. The religious leaders of Jesus's day did that to him too. Religion is not the basis of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Salvation is. Some people are just Aholes, and not everybody is who or what they say they are. A differentiation needs to be made, I think, between the teachings of God and that of his people. No matter if you view such teachings as myth or not.

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#1842
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
The hope is for your church to peaceably shrink as small as theirs, and become equally irrelevant.

01Justsayin wrote, " Isn't druidization a ranking in World of Warcraft? Are you confusing real life with your game again? "

I wouldn't know. If it is, it is you that is confusing life and games.
Lol Nah. I had to google it seeing as how druidization isn't even a real word.

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#1843
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>It aint necessarily so wrote, "Religious faith is not synonymous with evidence based belief. They are radically different:

[1] Religious faith is absolute certitude based on a guess or a wish. It lacks supporting evidence, and is refractory to contradictory evidence.

[2] Evidence based belief is trust or confidence based on prior experience, such as observation or experimentation. It is less than certain, the degree of assurance being commensurate with the quality and quantity of evidence supporting the belief. And unlike religious faith, it is amenable to modification if conflicting data arises. "



01Justsayin wrote, "Religious faith cannot be analyzed scientifically. "

I agree, but that is a non sequitur.

Did you want to comment on your claim or my rebuttal to it? Do you still consider faith and belief synonymous, or do you accept my argument that religious faith and evidence based belief are radically different?
So much anger and hostility toward someone for simply refusing to believe as you do. Want the number of a good therapist? I know a few. I'll be happy to comment on my claim. My claim was made out of ignorance on my part. Nothing more. Nothing less. See I didn't understand at the time exactly how overly literal atheists tend to be as I'm not used to that. I don't live in that world. Instead of readdressing my previous mistake, I'd like to rephrase the original statement of my opinion seeing as how it was terribly misunderstood. The wording I used earlier didn't accurately describe my point. I'll replace "fact" with "evidence" and "faith" with "belief". Believers cannot prove for a "fact" that God exists anymore than atheists can prove for a "fact" that he doesn't. All either side can do is offer up "evidence" to support their belief. Why this should even be a problem to either groups of people is beyond me. So long as the beliefs of the other aren't used as a weapon against each other, I really don't see what the problem is. The world could use more free thinkers. Those who challenge the status quo. Lord knows there's enough sheeple out there.

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#1844
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Thanks. I suspected that you weren't all bad.

01Justsayin wrote, "Again, religious belief cannot be analyzed under a microscope."

Again, agreed.

01Justsayin wrote, "If you are content with the knowable, then awesome. More power to you. "

I guess that I'm odd that way.

Are you trying to make nice now? You really dug yourself into a deep hole earlier. Are you looking for a do-over? I'm not averse to that.
Hahahahahahahaha Do over? Nice. No. I'm not looking for a do over. I'm not even trying to make nice. I came in here originally out of mere curiosity. What greeted me was overly aggressive anger and judgement of everything I hold sacred and holy. While I'm perfectly okay with the challenge, I'm not ever going to be okay with the misplaced anger or aggression. Of course I was going to retaliate. Engaging in intelligent conversation with people of various backgrounds and beliefs is a wonderful experience to be had. It's beneficial to everyone involved. Your anger and aggression towards a set of beliefs that are in no way violent in their origin (teachings of Jesus) baffled me and caused me to take a step back and evaluate why it made me angry in the first place. I'm secure in my beliefs and why I believe the way I do. The fact that you disagree with me doesn't really bother me. Once I was able to realize that your anger isn't really with me but rather with the misconceptions of what it truly means to be a Christian as well as the hurt that's been caused by those who misrepresent the teachings of the Savior they claim to serve, I was able to view things more objectively. Which enabled me to be able to speak from my heart rather than my head. See my belief in God is not a head thing. I can't rationalize God or seek him on a purely intellectual level. It's more of a heart thing. That same fresh perspective allows me to see past the anger, hostility, and aggression to the people whose opinions they are associated with all that negative garbage.

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#1845
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>01Justsayin wrote, "Does there have to be? "

I prefer it.

01Justsayin wrote, " You say a great many things that I believe to be pointless. "

If you can't discern it, ask me what my point was. I always have one.
Fine

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#1846
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>01Justsayin wrote, "Have you studied every manuscript known to man? Have you analyzed every slide underneath a microscope? Been to the site of every archeological dig? Personally been privy to every historical event? Are you omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent?"

No to all of those. Should I?

01Justsayin wrote, "I find it funny that you accuse others of picking at certain definitions, texts, or quotes in a manipulated attempt to prove their point. Especially given the fact that you are doing it right now. "

Do you? OK.

Do you care to substantiate any of that? I gave you a link to archeological findings that dispute some of the claims of Exodus. Until you tell us why you believe that that scholarship is invalid, its claims stand unrebutted.
In order to dispute such findings completely and entirely, one would have to have been there. Until you have read every historical manuscript known to man, you don't know everything about everything. I read your article. While it disputed some of the claims, it did not dispute all. The truth still remains that you can't factually prove your belief that God isn't real anymore than I can factually prove my belief that he is. All either side can do is provide evidence to support their own individual belief.

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#1847
Feb 1, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Literally? No, they cannot.

But they can be analyzed nevertheless. For example, the claim that there was an exodus of Hebrews from Egypt corresponding to the biblical account can be analyzed, and it has been. One of the problem for the biblical claims, for example, is that Hebrew campsites don't have pork bone in them. A crowd of several thousand nomads wandering over a large expanse of desert for forty years doesn't leave no trace of themselves.
The evidence can be analyzed. Yes. The religion itself cannot. I didn't write the Book. I just live by it. I can't personally attest to what actually happened or when it happened or how it happened or who it happened to. All I can do is study it. Just like you and everyone else.

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#1848
Feb 1, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>Since you're quoting Einstein (in an effort to sound intelligent) how about:

"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish." Albert Einstein.
And? You've done nothing but prove you can quote Einstein as well. Are you trying to appear intelligent? Cause this girl's got nothing to prove to anybody. I have no problem with his lack of faith in God. That's all him. His contributions to society are worthy of respect and more than just a second glance.

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#1849
Feb 1, 2013
 

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-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>I must be frustrating to believe in something that is moral, yet behave so immorally.
Oh yeah. Harp on my very human response to being repeatedly called a c*nt. Nevermind morals. Where are your manners? For that matter, where were his? Why should I mind my manners when you so clearly don't? Doesn't make any sense.

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#1850
Feb 1, 2013
 

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Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Your beliefs are shaped by warm fuzzy feelings and opinions whereas mine are shaped by fact and reason. Again you may certainly live in the chains of delusion and superstition just as the raving old man on the street screaming about demonic armies forming in the ally.

There are no differences between your delusions and his. Again feel free to live like that but don't think that us people of reason and progress will take your fantasy imagination god delusion anymore seriously than the old nutter in my example. Could you prove his demonic army wasn't forming in the ally? You would scoff at the suggestion! Why? Reason and facts would make you walk away chuckling at the old loon.

But you would make just as unfounded delusional statements about your god as he made about the demonic army.

We non believers are your betters in matters of facts and reason. We walk by chuckling at both delusional people the old man raving about the demonic army and you raving about this god.

Sorry but your or anyone's opinion does not equal actual facts.

We have facts you have opinion.
You cannot factually prove that God doesn't exist. All you have is evidence to support your belief. But no definitive proof. Same as Christians. Evidence but no definitive proof. Therefore you have no authority to pompously parade your beliefs around like the enlightened being you are so clearly not. Proof positive of that fact is your superiority complex and your lack of understanding about humanity. Of which you are a part. Only a fool would be arrogant enough to assume that he knows everything about everything or that believing differently from his fellow man in some way makes him better than they are. Choosing to listen to my heart doesn't mean I don't also use my head. That's just ridiculous! I find your desperate attempts to ridicule and undermine me to be laughable at best. If you are supposedly so much better than me, then why do you feel the need to argue with this "inferior" vessel?

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