Tom Powers: Vikings stadium - from inaction to chaos to mayhem to deal

From Arne Carlson to Jesse Ventura to Tim Pawlenty to Mark Dayton. From Roger Headrick and the Gang of Ten to Red McCombs to Reggie Fowler to Zygi Wilf.

[govt finally realized]

this was it - mn would NEVER gat an shot @ NFL football if they let them move. Remember the North Stars ? we had to BUILD a new tax payer funded stadium @ a much high cost than to remodel the old met.

lesson learned

[cantmakeitup]

govt finally realized wrote:

this was it - mn would NEVER gat an shot @ NFL football if they let them move. Remember the North Stars ? we had to BUILD a new tax payer funded stadium @ a much high cost than to remodel the old met.
lesson learned

Now that Zygi has gotten his massive, taxpayer funded, welfare check, I wonder if he will sell the team before or after the stadium is finished.

[Snake Dr]

cantmakeitup wrote:

<quoted text>
Now that Zygi has gotten his massive, taxpayer funded, welfare check, I wonder if he will sell the team before or after the stadium is finished.

do you seriously see it as welfare?? He is paying about half the money to build the stadium then he is renting it for 30 years. I wish someone would make that deal with me. Let some company pay me half the money to build a warehouse then pay me rent for 30 years.

[Trolls]

cantmakeitup wrote:

<quoted text>
Now that Zygi has gotten his massive, taxpayer funded, welfare check, I wonder if he will sell the team before or after the stadium is finished.

Why would he sell now? He will finally make money on this team! Or are you saying he would sell the Vikings but keep the stadium? I think it is funny how people are making him out to be this evil, rich dude. When in reality, he is doing what EVERY single other owner in the NFL would do. You can hate the idea of this corporate welfare, but don't hate Zygi for being a smart businessman.

[cantmakeitup]

Trolls wrote:

<quoted text>Why would he sell now? He will finally make money on this team! Or are you saying he would sell the Vikings but keep the stadium? I think it is funny how people are making him out to be this evil, rich dude. When in reality, he is doing what EVERY single other owner in the NFL would do. You can hate the idea of this corporate welfare, but don't hate Zygi for being a smart businessman.

Not hating Zygi. But with a new stadium in the works and all that money from the state, he can actually sell the team for a profit.

[cantmakeitup]

Snake Dr wrote:

<quoted text>
do you seriously see it as welfare?? He is paying about half the money to build the stadium then he is renting it for 30 years. I wish someone would make that deal with me. Let some company pay me half the money to build a warehouse then pay me rent for 30 years.

Yes, it is pure corporate welfare. If he had paid for it himself, he could rent it to himself or us as needed. The only reason these guys want the public to finance their stadiums is because it's the only way they can sell the team and make a profit. Riddle me this, how much are the Vikings worth now, as opposed to after they have a nwe stadium?

[JTY]

Trolls wrote:

<quoted text>Why would he sell now? He will finally make money on this team! Or are you saying he would sell the Vikings but keep the stadium? I think it is funny how people are making him out to be this evil, rich dude. When in reality, he is doing what EVERY single other owner in the NFL would do. You can hate the idea of this corporate welfare, but don't hate Zygi for being a smart businessman.

Was Wilf losing money on the Vikings, or was he just not making as much as he wanted?

Wilf and the NFL are part of a monopoly, and they used that to extort money from the state. Just because 31 other billionaire NFL owner would do it, doesn't make it right.

[Snake Dr]

cantmakeitup wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, it is pure corporate welfare. If he had paid for it himself, he could rent it to himself or us as needed. The only reason these guys want the public to finance their stadiums is because it's the only way they can sell the team and make a profit. Riddle me this, how much are the Vikings worth now, as opposed to after they have a nwe stadium?

No doubt the team is worth millions more now

[Niether of the Above]

You don't get rich spending your money, you get rich spending/using other people's money. Ziggy had the upper hand because, Ventura/Carlson and Pawlenty didn't want to face the issue. You wait until the 11th hour, with a business as powerfull as the NFL, you lose. Regardless of how good a "deal" the Legislature thinks it cut, Ziggy got the best of it and because Dayton, afraid of his legacy, spearheaded the effort, the states position was even weaker. It is corporate welfare! The Dem's scream about giving CEO's bonuses yet they just increase the value of Ziggy and Mark Wilf's Business, the Vikings, by 200-300 million dollars. How is that now welfare! If Wall Street made this request, would we have done the deal? Nope!!

[40for60]

JTY wrote:

<quoted text>
Was Wilf losing money on the Vikings, or was he just not making as much as he wanted?
Wilf and the NFL are part of a monopoly, and they used that to extort money from the state. Just because 31 other billionaire NFL owner would do it, doesn't make it right.

The financials are common knowledge, the Vikings and Mall of America Field are at the bottom concerning revenue.
I'd like to personally thank you for your contribution.

[JTY]

40for60 wrote:

<quoted text>
The financials are common knowledge, the Vikings and Mall of America Field are at the bottom concerning revenue.
I'd like to personally thank you for your contribution.

Are you leaving out that most of their revenue doesn't come from the stadium?

[40for60]

JTY wrote:

<quoted text>
Are you leaving out that most of their revenue doesn't come from the stadium?

I'm taking into consideration that the owners won't open their books for transparency, so I'm using other common knowledge financials open to the public.

'Forbes magazine estimates that there is a revenue gap exceeding $200 million between the NFL's top and bottom earners (see graph on the right). Teams like the Cowboys ($420 million), Redskins ($353 million) and Patriots ($318 million) are no match for some of the league's low revenue teams like the Raiders ($217 million), Jaguars ($220 million) or Vikings ($221 million), despite the NFL’s revenue-sharing system.'

And once again, thank you from the bottom of my Viking heart, your donation put us over the top.

[Minnesota Aryan Viking]

Master Zygi is being worshipped AWS....

On your knees to the Viking logo.

[JTY]

40for60 wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm taking into consideration that the owners won't open their books for transparency, so I'm using other common knowledge financials open to the public.
'Forbes magazine estimates that there is a revenue gap exceeding $200 million between the NFL's top and bottom earners (see graph on the right). Teams like the Cowboys ($420 million), Redskins ($353 million) and Patriots ($318 million) are no match for some of the league's low revenue teams like the Raiders ($217 million), Jaguars ($220 million) or Vikings ($221 million), despite the NFL’s revenue-sharing system.'
And once again, thank you from the bottom of my Viking heart, your donation put us over the top.

The Cowboys average ticket price is over twice as much as the Vikings. Maybe they should just double the ticket price? Also the average team revenue is $250 million, so even at #30 in revenue the Vikings are not doing that bad (especially when TV revenue is expected to increase by 60% next year).

P.S. There is a $100,000,000+ gap between #1 and #3.

[40for60]

JTY wrote:

<quoted text>
The Cowboys average ticket price is over twice as much as the Vikings. Maybe they should just double the ticket price? Also the average team revenue is $250 million, so even at #30 in revenue the Vikings are not doing that bad (especially when TV revenue is expected to increase by 60% next year).
P.S. There is a $100,000,000+ gap between #1 and #3.

The ticket prices will certainly sky rocket now, but do you really think the Vikings could have doubled their ticket prices playing at the dome?
What drives most of this, besides the fact that Zigmunt would like a nice return, is the NFL model of revenue sharing. Revenue sharing was concocted to somewhat level the financial playing field in the NFL in some ways like the Salary Cap does for paying players.
The higher revenue teams have to hand over millions to lower revenue teams, and I'll bet you know how some uber rich people like to hand over money, money their business earned.
The stadium was not only needed to keep the Vikings viable in Minnesota, but also to keep the Jerry Jones' at bay by lessening his pain.

Nobody argues the fact that the NFL is so successfull because of it's parity. Dynasties still emerge, but nothing like baseball(Yankees), basketball(Lakers).
The

[Trolls]

JTY wrote:

<quoted text>
Was Wilf losing money on the Vikings, or was he just not making as much as he wanted?
Wilf and the NFL are part of a monopoly, and they used that to extort money from the state. Just because 31 other billionaire NFL owner would do it, doesn't make it right.

I agree that it doesn't make it right, but it was the reality of the situation that MN was in. We certainly were not going to be the state that calls the NFL's bluff, and the commish said as much. Had we not paid for half this stadium, the Vikes would have been gone, and many folks would have been ok with that.

[Matt]

The taxpayers of MN just made Zygi richer. He also owns property around the new stadium that just went up in value and he will develop.

[JTY]

Trolls wrote:

<quoted text>I agree that it doesn't make it right, but it was the reality of the situation that MN was in. We certainly were not going to be the state that calls the NFL's bluff, and the commish said as much. Had we not paid for half this stadium, the Vikes would have been gone, and many folks would have been ok with that.

We are paying far more then half of the stadium. The total tax payer contribution is slated at $950 million.$600 from Hennepin County over the next 30 years and $350 million from the state. Wilf's share includes giveaways that are worth hundreds of millions of dollars. The naming rights alone are projected to be worth $210 million over 30 years. Those give away bring the cost to tax payers closer to $1.2 billion.

[jerthemessiah]

Snake Dr wrote:

<quoted text>
do you seriously see it as welfare?? He is paying about half the money to build the stadium then he is renting it for 30 years. I wish someone would make that deal with me. Let some company pay me half the money to build a warehouse then pay me rent for 30 years.

You clearly don't understand finance.