Some schools are more unruly | The Columbus Dispatch

One Columbus high school accounted for almost one-fifth of all the discipline meted out by the 16 regular district high schools in 2009-10, while another building recorded only 1 percent of the discipline, according to a Dispatch analysis of state records. Full Story
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suzie

Hilliard, OH

#1 Oct 10, 2010
I'll tell you a story. Busing ruined the schools in the city and caused "white flight". Now the city is left with once-good schools gone bad with gang problems. Years ago families moved into a neighborhood and sent their kids to school there, not half way across town. People should be able to sent their kids to a neighborhood school where they live.
The other story is that their are entirely too many administrators trying to figure out the problem with the schools.
Further, bringing back good old-fashioned discipline would stop alot of nonsense. When I was in school kids still got "whacks". No, lets wait till all the thugs get to the prison system so they can take the responsibility for the failure of the schools and parents.
xxxrayted

Cleveland, OH

#2 Oct 10, 2010
I don't thing bussing is still going on. But bussing did have negative ramifications.

What bussing did was push good people out of a city. A person who chose to live in Cleveland quickly moved to the suburbs when bussing came here. People who could afford to move to the suburbs were the working people with money. The people who couldn't afford a home in the suburbs were people forced to stay in Cleveland. So what bussing did is chase out all the people with money, and kept the people with no money. The end result is you have a city full of people with no money.

It's very similar to what's happening in Maple Heights today. Our politicians are harassing everybody with their homes. So the people who can afford to take a loss and sell their home for anything they can get do so. They have the money. The people who can't sell at a loss are the people with no money.
Former SWCS Resident

Chesapeake, VA

#3 Oct 10, 2010
PLEASE disaggregate the data! Take a look at a large sample of what (the specifics of the act) constituted the suspension or expulsion. Is there a discrepancy in the definitions used by schools? I recently was invited to attend the US Department of Justice/US Department of Education joint meeting on school discipline. Much data was presented and I have no doubt the data is accurate. However, when data is general it should only lead to more probing questions and more specific data. Do NOT react to generalizations and/or assumptions.
Wheres the hope

Watseka, IL

#4 Oct 10, 2010
I live near Independence High School & during the day there's dozens of kids walking around the neighborhood...not in school. Sad state of affairs for these kids. Most don't have both parents...no role models...no heroes except the pimps & thugs that are portrayed in the media as necessary for their survival...women as hookers & witches. With no future, as so many blue collar jobs are gone forever. I don't know the solutions as the jobs & hope are missing. More sadness as so many are grandparents at age 30! Glad I lived when times were different & if you didn't go to college, you could still make a living.
Vuvuzela Jabulani

Grove City, OH

#5 Oct 10, 2010
This data shows socioeconomic differences, just like state tests.
Circleville Reader

Cardington, OH

#6 Oct 10, 2010
"An extensive annual discipline report that Superintendent Gene Harris delivered to the Board of Education on Tuesday focused on which grades and races were being disciplined, and for what types of offenses..."
Was there anything about race in this article that I missed?
traveler

Washington Court House, OH

#7 Oct 10, 2010
suzie wrote:
I'll tell you a story. Busing ruined the schools in the city and caused "white flight". Now the city is left with once-good schools gone bad with gang problems. Years ago families moved into a neighborhood and sent their kids to school there, not half way across town. People should be able to sent their kids to a neighborhood school where they live.
The other story is that their are entirely too many administrators trying to figure out the problem with the schools.
Further, bringing back good old-fashioned discipline would stop alot of nonsense. When I was in school kids still got "whacks". No, lets wait till all the thugs get to the prison system so they can take the responsibility for the failure of the schools and parents.
I agree wholeheartedly. Way to many administrators! Clean house, adjust to the proper size.
GetReal

AOL

#8 Oct 10, 2010
Let's give Jean Harris another raise for the nice chart.
Old Timer

AOL

#9 Oct 10, 2010
traveler wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree wholeheartedly. Way to many administrators! Clean house, adjust to the proper size.
Sadly to say, the "solution" proposed actually increases the problem. You may "side" with Suzie, but corporal punishment has been banned for the past ten years, and the "rights" of students requires a prescribed course of action, which calls for, guess what...more administrators.

The kids with the "problems" might be "oppositionally defiant", which is a disability, and this calls for testing, placement, IEP, support, and guess what...more administrators.

The kids are then placed in alternative settings to help them succeed, provided week-end opportunities, intensive remediation, and more support, which calls for...more administrators.

The kids who years ago dropped out (or kicked out) are provided more chances. The teachers who face these kids every day must now remove the students for "discipline", and this call for...more administrators.

With an ever more stringent negotiated agreement which protects teachers and their career, they must be observed and evaluated to ensure they are proficient in their role, calling for...you guessed it, more administrative oversight.

The truth as to the cost of administration, is that it is very little, and if they weren't around, the teacher would be saddled with the work, keeping them from teaching, which is their prime purpose.

A lot has changed since Suzie and Travelor attended school...but this tells "the rest of the story"..........
mapleman

Cleveland, OH

#10 Oct 10, 2010
Wheres the hope wrote:
I live near Independence High School & during the day there's dozens of kids walking around the neighborhood...not in school. Sad state of affairs for these kids. Most don't have both parents...no role models...no heroes except the pimps & thugs that are portrayed in the media as necessary for their survival...women as hookers & witches. With no future, as so many blue collar jobs are gone forever. I don't know the solutions as the jobs & hope are missing. More sadness as so many are grandparents at age 30! Glad I lived when times were different & if you didn't go to college, you could still make a living.
I just looked it up. Seems like it's a city school. A bunch of students for single parent homes probably. It is what it is. They are usually products of women who make bad choices. Laying down and having children by men that aren't worth a damn.

Since schooling starts at home, these kids start out at a great disadvantage.
john

Wilmington, OH

#11 Oct 10, 2010
In my day we had to go to school all day, The only ones that left were the farm kids during harvesting time. But now they only go for a couple of hours because they have a part time job that half dont show up for
Reader

Columbus, OH

#12 Oct 10, 2010
suzie wrote:
I'll tell you a story. Busing ruined the schools in the city and caused "white flight". Now the city is left with once-good schools gone bad with gang problems. Years ago families moved into a neighborhood and sent their kids to school there, not half way across town. People should be able to sent their kids to a neighborhood school where they live.
The other story is that their are entirely too many administrators trying to figure out the problem with the schools.
Further, bringing back good old-fashioned discipline would stop alot of nonsense. When I was in school kids still got "whacks". No, lets wait till all the thugs get to the prison system so they can take the responsibility for the failure of the schools and parents.
I am sorry. Desegregation did not cause the ruination of the schools. Nor did it cause white-flight. White flight was the result of racial prejudice pure and simple. When the district was prevented from race-based school assignment patterns, many who held such prejudices chose to take shelter in the suburbs.

Further, the district returned to neighborhood assignment patterns well over a decade ago. Declining numbers of students have resulted in a need to close schools (which cuts down on the number of administrators, BTW)--which means that the "neighborhoods" keep getting bigger. And since buildings cannot be easily moved around, some of the assignment areas become awkward.

And if you think that "whacking" kids brings about good discipline, perhaps you should take a walk through some of the more enlightened suburban schools. You will observe both good order and an absence of hitting kids.
Reader

Columbus, OH

#13 Oct 10, 2010
mapleman wrote:
<quoted text>
I just looked it up. Seems like it's a city school. A bunch of students for single parent homes probably. It is what it is. They are usually products of women who make bad choices. Laying down and having children by men that aren't worth a damn.
Since schooling starts at home, these kids start out at a great disadvantage.
Take a look at the chart. The differences are too vast to be laid at the feet of parents. When we have one school experiencing ten times as many incidents of "discipline" as another we have some institutionalized problems as well. It may or may not matter what a family's income is or how many parents are at home. But it clearly matters what school the student attends. And one dirty little secret about Fort Hayes, CAHS and AIMS is that because they are hugely popular, they can easily jigger kids with problems out, simply by being uncooperative, or suggesting to a parent that perhaps their child would do better somewhere else. And since the kids at AIMS are now guaranteed a lottery-free seat at Fort Hayes, FH is getting an effectively pre-screened population.

I would lay money that the differences between schools far outweigh the differences by poverty, or family type.

But, it's more fun to accuse parents of being sexually irresponsible, isn't it.
Reader

Columbus, OH

#14 Oct 10, 2010
I just want to commend the Dispatch for the recent spate of articles on the data on CCS. Most of the data is easily available on the state website--but that doesn't mean that everyone knows it. As a parent, I have been looking this stuff up for years--when I chose my kids' schools, when there were problems, when I wanted to try to lobby for improvements.

But the reality is that many parents don't realize how different the schools are, or rely on reputation. Many would suppose that East and South have the worst discipline problems, but that is not the case. When Robyn Taylor, President of the district group of PTAs says,“Maybe there are some strategies that we can put in place at those four (high-discipline high) schools," it is clear that she doesn't realize that the district as a whole adopted a commitment to Positive Behavior Support(PBS) several years ago. The commitment, however, did not include sufficient funding for the recommended levels of staff training, nor has anyone ever measured the levels of staff "buy in" to PBS--so it's hard to really know the extent to which it has been implemented.

But these are questions that parents and the community need to be asking. Keep the data coming, Dispatch. We need to keep up the pressure. One additional source of publicly available information that tells a valuable story are the staff surveys at each school--available on the CEA website. Take a look at where the teachers really feel that they have received sufficient training in discipline, and where they feel that discipline is fair and consistent. Or where the teachers would like to keep teaching.
this is laughable

Westerville, OH

#15 Oct 10, 2010
Reader wrote:
<quoted text>
I am sorry. Desegregation did not cause the ruination of the schools. Nor did it cause white-flight. White flight was the result of racial prejudice pure and simple. When the district was prevented from race-based school assignment patterns, many who held such prejudices chose to take shelter in the suburbs.
Further, the district returned to neighborhood assignment patterns well over a decade ago. Declining numbers of students have resulted in a need to close schools (which cuts down on the number of administrators, BTW)--which means that the "neighborhoods" keep getting bigger. And since buildings cannot be easily moved around, some of the assignment areas become awkward.
And if you think that "whacking" kids brings about good discipline, perhaps you should take a walk through some of the more enlightened suburban schools. You will observe both good order and an absence of hitting kids.
thank you reader for this analysis. It's whiteyks fault. Brilliant. Now please shut your liberal mouth.
ABC

Reynoldsburg, OH

#16 Oct 10, 2010
I'm reminded of severe problems in various Third World dumps where the local out-of-control simians are held sacred and not to be interfered with or held accountable for their misbehavior and predation.
Given our new national "Urban" PC Whacko religion that permits and encourages Chimpsonatoot;driven by unqualified AA school boards,city councils and hack Racial Identity political Sick Joke "leadership"...
Is it surprising that there are so many public schools that better resemble M onk e y Island at the Zoo?
belle

Reynoldsburg, OH

#17 Oct 10, 2010
there are more guns and drugs at Independence then any other school,I've ever been inside of. If they ever did a lockdown and search without letting certain admins. know. they might have a chance of cleaning them out.
dave chappelle

Columbus, OH

#18 Oct 10, 2010
Reader wrote:
<quoted text>

And if you think that "whacking" kids brings about good discipline, perhaps you should take a walk through some of the more enlightened suburban schools. You will observe both good order and an absence of hitting kids.
Suburbs have more of one thing that makes a huge difference;
Fathers.
Concerned Citizen

Reynoldsburg, OH

#19 Oct 10, 2010
Looking at the chart, some of these schools rank exactly where you would expect them to if you look at how popular they are as alternative schools or the socioeconomic level of their neighborhoods. A few do not. I would suggest that some differences are due to the fact that some administrators actively work to see that their schools are places conducive to learning and others prefer to bury their heads in the sand and not see problems unless they are forced to do so.
F_EM

Delaware, OH

#20 Oct 10, 2010
"An extensive annual discipline report that Superintendent Gene Harris delivered to the Board of Education on Tuesday focused on which grades and races were being disciplined, and for what types of offenses, but it never said where most discipline was occurring."

So were they afraid to publish the race numbers found in the report? They looked into it but don't want to come out and say it. HMM.

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