Posted in the Frankfort Forum
#1 Apr 15, 2010
From my understanding Hillcrest is bailing drug addicts out of FCRJ. Where are they getting this money? Church members, do they know this is where their hard earned money is going? Do they know how big of a mistake they are making? Personally I think a church should save their money for people who truely need it. Not for those who are on drugs and were arrested for stealing. This NEEDS TO STOP!!!!
#2 Apr 15, 2010
I agree completely! Once someone is arrested for stealing, or someone takes drugs, they no longer deserve any help. I'm pretty sure Jesus said that somewhere in the Bible.
Plus, if those people at Hillcrest keep spending all their money trying to help people straighten out their lives, they won't be able to afford their annual pew cushion fluffing and stained glass window cleaning! Imagine having to sit on unfluffed pew cushions, looking out through dirty windows!
We need more Concerned Citizens like you, Sir or Madam! Keep up the great work and there is a golden crown awaiting!
#3 Apr 15, 2010
Stealing and doing drugs are minor compared to molestation and murder. Now here's my disclosure for all that may not understand...I do not condone either one. Maybe this church, if what is said is true, sees the potential this person may have. Perhaps this person is ready for rehabilitation. Who are we to judge someone else? A lot of people who are addicted to drugs steal to get their next fix. The offenses go hand-in-hand.
Why wouldn't someone deserve a second chance? Here in America we give murderers and child molesters second chances every day, which is very foolish in my eyes. Someone who has an illness such as drug addiction does not deserve a second chance? How foolish is that? I would rather have a drug addict rehabilitated than a murderer or molester. People amaze me with their thinking patterns. If this is the church's ministry, I applaud them. If we had more caring people in this world, it may be a better place.
On the flip side, hopefully they have done their homework. It is a proven fact that you can't rehabilitate someone that is not ready to be rehabilitated. No matter how many times they are "forced" into treatment, they will more than likely relapse. People who struggle with this addiction that are ready to make a change, generally do pretty good. I'm not saying they don't relapse.
#4 Apr 15, 2010
okie dokie in response to your statement i must say that i dont think the people of that church have any business getting people out of jail. go to the jail and minister to them there, JAIL is keeping them SOBER. In jail they are not stealing from innocent people, lying or abusing their own bodies. Are you saying that we should help the addict who has lied to get out of jail. the church should have their facts before going and posting a bond. the family refused to get them out of jail and for good reason. when they are in jail they know where their loved one is and know that they arent on the streets and are being feed. IS THIS WRONG???? The family was devasted to find out someone had posted bond and to find out it was a church. rehab has come and gone several times... ready to get clean is a joke at this point. HUGE mistake was made by this church member. and not only that the church member put the bond money in the persons name so they got the money back not the CHURCH. Help the needy and those who deserve it!!
#5 Apr 15, 2010
Who are you to judge? Do you know the reasons. My quess is no. Never be to quick to critize.....
#6 Apr 15, 2010
Concerned Citizen: Obviously you did not read my post in its entirety. I clearly stated this to be exact; " On the flip side, hopefully they have done their homework. It is a proven fact that you can't rehabilitate someone that is not ready to be rehabilitated. No matter how many times they are "forced" into treatment, they will more than likely relapse. People who struggle with this addiction that are ready to make a change, generally do pretty good. I'm not saying they don't relapse."
Who are you to decide how a church decides to do their ministry?
Clearly if you think that people can remain sober in jail, you are sadly mistaken. There are just as many, if not more drugs smuggled into jails and prisons every day.
I may be mistaken, but it seems that whoever was bailed out by the church has done something personal to you or you personally have something against this person.
As I stated before, I would hope that this church has done their homework. As for the bond money being put in the person's name, well if the church does not get it back, I hope it will be a lesson learned. Everyone makes mistakes in life, but the beauty in doing so, is also being capable of LEARNING from those mistakes. Some people are not capable of this as we know, but a lot of people CAN and DO learn from their mistakes.
#7 Apr 15, 2010
It's not your money they used for bail, so how does it hurt you? The church is supposed to help the drug addicted, thieves, abusers, alcoholics and yes, even low life child molesters. God may have laid it on the heart of the Hillcrest church member to reach out and help this troubled, jailed individual. Nobody but God knows what is in that mans heart. Maybe all it will take is for a Christian to show love when no one else was willing too. Jesus didn't preach in a church, He reached out to the afflicted, the poor and the needy. Maybe more members of the local churches should follow in His footsteps more closely and reach out to help the hopeless, like Hillcrest did, instead of worrying about hurt feelings and the offering plate.
#8 Apr 16, 2010
It is obvious that none of you have a drug addict in your family. If so some of the things you say you def. wouldnt be saying.
who am I to judge? I can judge b/c this is my family member and it directly effects me, their children and my entire family. we have been dealing with this for 20 years. and FINALLY everyone has cut this person off and they needed this. NO MORE enabling, learn a lesson. But no some church thought they were doing their part. All the poeple needing help with electric, food, clothing and hillcrest wants to help someone who doesnt appricate anything you do for them?? I know drug addiction better than I know myself sometime. I could go on and on about the horrible things that have happened to my family but i wont. Sometimes people have to have no one before they realize how much they had. being supportive sometimes doesnt help. I think it is wrong that a church gives out money like that to people like we are speaking about.
This is what the church needs to advertise:
If you are a theif, if you steal money that isnt rightfully yours, if you are a horrible parent who could give two craps about your kids (even when your sober), if you lie to get drug money and use your kids as the excuse,if you are a liar, a career criminal, if you are currently on probation for stealing, if you use good people to your benefit when it is all based on lies, if you steal thousands of dollars from your mother, father and family, if your family are good people and they wont help you b/c they think you need to help yourself bc/ they have done everyhting they could do, then come to Hillcrest Baptist and we will help you get out of jail and put the bond money in your name so when you go to court you get the money back. to buy crack, b/c you have sold everything in your home. Sound good? And BTW- you dont ever have to come to our church to recieve these favors.
Point proven. I have said what needed to be said, I started this post b/c I want the people of the church to know this is the person their church has helped. Thanks!!
#9 Apr 16, 2010
Okay, I can certainly understand your frustration. I have had plenty of drug addicts in my family, trust me. It's not the church's fault. They probably honestly believe they are doing some type of ministry here.
Why would you believe that in order to receive help from a church that you should also be a member? Lord help us all when all churches begin to think that way. There are some that do and I don't agree with it. They are supposed to be doing the Lord's work, not picking and choosing who is worthy of what. Some churches won't even visit people who are sick because they don't belong to the church.
As I said, I hoped this church had done their homework, if not it will be a lesson learned. I'm not saying that they should not help someone else in need of this type of help. One bad apple should not ruin the bunch.
I always try to talk to my family members that struggle with this disease and I also try to help them. At some point, you just have to toughen up yourself and dish out a little "tough love." As I said before, you can't help someone unless they are ready to make that change. This is a disease that has taken over every aspect of their lives. Their mind is too foggy to think of the implications of their actions. Sadly, someone does have to hit "rock bottom" before they actually decide enough is enough. Even then, some will relapse. There is not a simple fix for the problem. Putting them in jail and leaving them there because you think they will sober up is definitely not the solution. When they do get out, they will return to their old ways. You have to rehabilitate these souls, jail alone is not the answer.
You sound like you know a little bit about addiction, but not enough to understand the full scope of things. It's not as easy as you think. If it was, I guarantee you this person would not still be using.
I don't think you have proved any point here. The church is not the reason for this person's problems. They may have enabled them temporarily, and unintentionally. You should not harbor any negative feelings for the church. I'm sure they felt they were doing what they were called to do. Even churches make mistakes. It is actually humans that are in the church. We can't expect them to be perfect, although that is the perception we would like to have.
You have got to wise up and think of yourself. It's not doing you any good to constantly think about this and the ways you can "help" this person. It's not good for your mental health and eventually will take a toll on you. At this point, all you may be able to do is pray that the Lord opens up this person's eyes and allows them to see the devastation they have caused to them as well as to the family. Until that day comes, it's pretty much a lose-lose situation.
#10 Apr 16, 2010
You talk as if you know that the church did this.
You have to fill out paper work and everythings else to get help. This much be someone you know.
#11 Apr 16, 2010
I do have drug addicted family members. Yes, they have stolen from the entire family. Yes, the family has bailed them out of situations and jail several times over the years. Yes, the family has been hurt numerous times by them. Yes, the family got tired of it and refused to be used by them anymore. I DO understand where you are coming from. I DO know what you are feeling. I DO know the hurt and pain from this type of situation. But, you shouldn't be criticizing a church member for trying to be a good Christian. If Hillcrest knew about his gentleman in jail and chose not to bail him out, then someone, somewhere would be complaining that they were unchristian because of it. It is a double-edged sword. A no win situation. So, someone in that church chose to do what Jesus would do by helping the afflicted. Besides, you don't know if the church member who bailed him out was once in the same situation and a church member helped him/her out so he/she was doing what they believed was right.
Concerned Citizen, I really do understand your pain but you and your family still have the freedom to not help this drug addicted family member. If he still chooses to continue his reckless lifestyle, keeping him in jail wont stop him. He may just learn to get better at crime while doing time.
#12 Apr 16, 2010
Well, I am a member @ Hillcrest, always have been. If you have a problem with the ministry to the jail, I can give you the name of the minister that takes care of that.
My tithe money gets spent on prison ministry. I think it is great. Let me give a scripture to base how I feel about it as a church member:
New International Version (©1984)
I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
25:31-46 This is a description of the last judgment. It is as an explanation of the former parables. There is a judgment to come, in which every man shall be sentenced to a state of everlasting happiness, or misery. Christ shall come, not only in the glory of his Father, but in his own glory, as Mediator. The wicked and godly here dwell together, in the same cities, churches, families, and are not always to be known the one from the other; such are the weaknesses of saints, such the hypocrisies of sinners; and death takes both: but in that day they will be parted for ever. Jesus Christ is the great Shepherd; he will shortly distinguish between those that are his, and those that are not. All other distinctions will be done away; but the great one between saints and sinners, holy and unholy, will remain for ever. The happiness the saints shall possess is very great. It is a kingdom; the most valuable possession on earth; yet this is but a faint resemblance of the blessed state of the saints in heaven. It is a kingdom prepared. The Father provided it for them in the greatness of his wisdom and power; the Son purchased it for them; and the blessed Spirit, in preparing them for the kingdom, is preparing it for them. It is prepared for them: it is in all points adapted to the new nature of a sanctified soul. It is prepared from the foundation of the world. This happiness was for the saints, and they for it, from all eternity. They shall come and inherit it. What we inherit is not got by ourselves. It is God that makes heirs of heaven. We are not to suppose that acts of bounty will entitle to eternal happiness. Good works done for God's sake, through Jesus Christ, are here noticed as marking the character of believers made holy by the Spirit of Christ, and as the effects of grace bestowed on those who do them. The wicked in this world were often called to come to Christ for life and rest, but they turned from his calls; and justly are those bid to depart from Christ, that would not come to him. Condemned sinners will in vain offer excuses. The punishment of the wicked will be an everlasting punishment; their state cannot be altered. Thus life and death, good and evil, the blessing and the curse, are set before us, that we may choose our way, and as our way so shall our end be.
#13 Apr 19, 2010
"I agree completely! Once someone is arrested for stealing, or someone takes drugs, they no longer deserve any help. I'm pretty sure Jesus said that somewhere in the Bible."
Yeah, Amen, I'm sure if you asked Jesus, he'd tell the people who 'need help' to go fuck themselves. Are you really that stupid? Quit embarrassing yourself.
#14 Apr 20, 2010
Amusing to see someone who cannot recognize some of the most blatantly obvious sarcasm ever written asking, "Are you really that stupid?"
#15 Apr 20, 2010
I quit going to my church because they started doing stuff like this. I don't believe in big grand church buildings, the money should be used to actually help people, but the church was being taken advantage of by lowlifes who know how to talk a good game and the do-gooders were too naive to see it.
#16 Apr 20, 2010
I understand your frustration. Please know that most churches try to use the best descernment possible. Even that being said, people will take advantage.
Think of it this way, the Lord is going to look at what you did in His name after this life has passed. Not exactly who you did it unto. I will expand on the scripture I provided last week. This is taken from Matthew 25: 31-46. NKJV:
37 Then the righteous will answer Him, saying,Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You? 40 And the King will answer and say to them,Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.
In this passage Jesus is urging us to act as if every hungry mouth, every unclothed body, every deperate soul were HIS. If you love HIM you will do unto others. It ultimately is not up to us to determine the when and why. It is a faith thing. I assure you God will not judge you as unrighteous or wrong becuase you were dooped into doing good. Doing good is doing good regardless of the outcome.
You are more than welcome to come out and attend Hillcrest. We have one of the most inclusive and loving church families out there. We used to have a person that attended that wore his motorcylce doo-rag to services. He was a nice man, but ultimately took his own life. We were all very saddened by this and I can assure you he was welcomed heartily just as anyone else would be.
Blessings to you.
#17 Apr 20, 2010
Just for clarification, we as a church body have never posted bail for anyone. We simply provide a ministry to the incarcerated. If thats wrong, well then I want to be wrong. If you are truly concerened, come out and attend sometime. You can sit next to me if you would like.
#18 Apr 20, 2010
I couldn't agree with the "grandiose church buildings". What a waste. We are not here to build treasures here, but in heaven. Most of our church is housed in the original buidling which I believe was built in 1957. Our sanctuary is big enough to hold a crowd, but is not excessive. We have a gorgeous church IMHO. However, its the presence of the Holy Spirit and the love of the congregation members that make a church, not the bricks and mortar. Our church started out from humble roots in a member's garage way back in the 50's.
#19 Apr 20, 2010
its funny they my bail them out but ask them if they can stay with them and i bet they change their tune real quick.
#20 Apr 20, 2010
and i also worked construction for a while and you should have heard the words that came out of some of these so called ministers and preachers. while they were being asked to cut construction costs.
they are more worried about how their churches are going to look than what goes on inside them.
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