Alamo's ministry, 2 parents sue state

There are 207 comments on the Herald-Leader story from Apr 16, 2009, titled Alamo's ministry, 2 parents sue state. In it, Herald-Leader reports that:

The Tony Alamo Christian Ministries and two of its members sued the Arkansas Department of Human Services in federal court Thursday, saying the department has "engaged in a systematic, persistent and continuous campaign of harassment and intimidation against the church." The suit in U.S. District Court in Texarkana cites the removal of 36 children ...

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Justice

Fullerton, CA

#1 Apr 18, 2009
It came back.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#2 Apr 18, 2009
Aren't these the same cult parents that got the courts to pay for their attorneys w/ tax dollars in the custody hearings cuz they stated they are indigent? How can they afford to hire this big shot expensive lawyer for a civil suit?
Modesto

United States

#3 Apr 18, 2009
My impression is that they are represented by an organization of legal professionals sort of on the line of the A.C.L.U.,not the same aims and probably not affiliated with them though.I guess the parents could say they aren't paying for their lawyers, who are working for their stated goal of making sure courts don't abuse their power by improperly removing kids from churches and as the article described "disbanding churches".

I hope that lawyers who are so morally sensitive that they provide their services without compensation to attempt to protect religious liberty and parental rights will also use wisdom and look deeply into what and who they help.I doubt any Court could "disband" the United Methodist Church for instance.This is because they are in fact a Church and operate within the law of the land.The Alamo outfit stopped being a church decades ago and now only exists to provide money and other decadent and at times, illegal luxuries for Tony at other people's expense.I really hope these two nonprofit groups stop allowing their valuable time and effort to be used and abused in this fashion.They are protecting nothing but Alamo and supporting him in his abuse of people.
MMMMM

Slidell, LA

#4 Apr 18, 2009
Modesto wrote:
My impression is that they are represented by an organization of legal professionals sort of on the line of the A.C.L.U.,not the same aims and probably not affiliated with them though.I guess the parents could say they aren't paying for their lawyers, who are working for their stated goal of making sure courts don't abuse their power by improperly removing kids from churches and as the article described "disbanding churches".
I hope that lawyers who are so morally sensitive that they provide their services without compensation to attempt to protect religious liberty and parental rights will also use wisdom and look deeply into what and who they help.I doubt any Court could "disband" the United Methodist Church for instance.This is because they are in fact a Church and operate within the law of the land.The Alamo outfit stopped being a church decades ago and now only exists to provide money and other decadent and at times, illegal luxuries for Tony at other people's expense.I really hope these two nonprofit groups stop allowing their valuable time and effort to be used and abused in this fashion.They are protecting nothing but Alamo and supporting him in his abuse of people.
You are a wise man.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#5 Apr 18, 2009
Thank you Modesto. I wasn't aware this famous attorney was providing his service for free. Excellent points, they should investigate character and legal history of just who is taking advantage of their services.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#6 Apr 18, 2009
Even w/o attorney fees, it still costs alot to file, prepare and try a civil case. Someone has to pay for that. Why not direct that time, effort and expense into current custody hearings. Unless they just don't care about their kids being in State care and other concerns and motive are more important to them.

I always thoroughly investigate the history of actions regarding any non profit organization w/ a cause that solicits funds from me. High media profile cases makes discovery quite prominent.
PACA in the Tropics

Davenport, FL

#7 Apr 18, 2009
E-mail them

desere@cpswatchlegalteam.com
cheryl@cpswatchlegalteam.com

They are listed on the CPS website in reference to this case.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#8 Apr 18, 2009
Excellent idea Trop. All of us and anyone w/ knowledge should email them.

“WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?”

Since: Mar 08

Any town

#9 Apr 18, 2009
My advice is for the parents to move out of the foundation and seperate themselves from the organization. After they do this, they will probably get the children back. I think they could just do it temporarily until tony's court situation is completed. After that the parents can step back and take a good look at the entire picture and make a decision to join back up with the foundation or join a different church.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#10 Apr 18, 2009
The recovery orders where granted by the courts due to the fact those children were endangered. Why would you want to put them back in an environment who's religious doctrine dictates that children are beaten bloody?

Those parents can't protect those kids. When alamo decrees they should be beat, they can do nothing but agree, obediently participate and watch.

alamo told Hall that he has 60 year old men hit w/ boards over 50 times in there. I seriously doubt that the Courts, Child Protective Services or any decent, caring normal person would agree w/ you on your proposal of taking the kids back into the cult.
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#11 Apr 18, 2009
If your under aged daughter was transported across state lines and sexually abused, would you join back up w/ your "foundation"?
Justice

Fullerton, CA

#12 Apr 18, 2009
Not really good advice there Jack. Just leave the cult till they give ya the kids back, and when the court case ends join back up. DHS has put too much effort into protecting these children to allow that.

These people claim they quit their "employment" w/ the cult to hide their children from proper service and due process. The legal arena is not stupid enuff to fall for the tricks you are proposing.
mac is back

Grand Rapids, MI

#13 Apr 19, 2009
Absolutely wrong Jack. Alamo dictates every move of every person in that joint, 24/7/365. Both children and adults beaten at his order. They follow every little dictate of Alamo's orders.

He's got those kids starting to work at 10 years old now. That's his new rule.

What chance at any kind of childhood do these kids have? They are afraid to bat their eyelashes the wrong way. When asked in a DHS interview what they do for fun, do you know what they said? We go out and put gospel tracts on windshields, work in the kitchen peeling and washing dishes, work in the mailroom stuffing envelopes. This has been drilled into them from the time they can talk and walk.

These kids should be out playing like all normal boys and girls, yes and with each other too, to develop normal childhood/people relationships. Alamo segregates boys from girls. Where in the Bible does it say to do that?

And then meanwhile, he is performing his deviant, raping pedophile perversions behind the scenes right under their noses. Some of them are aware of that too because they groom them and then send their young virgin daughters over to his bedroom to sacrifice to him considering it an honor. They know very well what's going on.

He doesn't run a ministry, he runs a slave labor farm/camp. Crank out workers, money makers and young virgins for him to rape. Also behind the scenes, he IS beating, he IS physically, mentally and verbally abusing and having people beaten. I know because I witnessed many times his screaming, tyrannical tirades.

I also witnessed the screaming, crying and pleading at the Spec house back in the 80s when a child was being beaten with that huge "board of education" as Alamo called it, with the holes in it. I was in the next room and I could hear the tremendous whacks of the board and that child screaming, "Please stop, please stop, you're hurting me." I heard it vividly. So I know that this goes on in there despite their denials. They lie and are taught to lie by Alamo because he has them convinced that it's ok to lie to the devil. Alamo considers anyone not there under his jurisdiction and control, a devil.

The children are not safe in there and under no circumstances should they ever return once they are out of there!!!
Modesto

United States

#14 Apr 19, 2009
I don't want to be presumtuos and speak for Jack,sorry if that is what it seems like.I thought Jack was advocating the parents seperate,then,after having left the organization and theoretically having a clearer perspective resulting from being then out from under Tony's and the other member's influence they would be in a position and frame of mind to make the right decision which would be not to return to the cult.I think this idea is good hearted and comes from a desire to help members get out from under Alamo's spell.I have to agree with Mac and Justice that it wouldn't work though. I feel they'd just seperate then return either secretly or after a time when they felt
the coast was clear".It is a good hearted but naive idea from Jack and the Courts.

The Alamite children should remain in custody/protection of the Court/DHS/foster care as the investigation and trial continue, for their safety and general well being.
mac is back

Grand Rapids, MI

#15 Apr 19, 2009
Yes, indeed Jack is good-hearted. I hope I didn't insinuate otherwise. Good points J.

“"Just get across the street!"”

Since: Dec 08

Pleasant View, TN

#16 Apr 19, 2009
mac is back wrote:
.....What chance at any kind of childhood do these kids have? They are afraid to bat their eyelashes the wrong way. When asked in a DHS interview what they do for fun, do you know what they said? We go out and put gospel tracts on windshields, work in the kitchen peeling and washing dishes, work in the mailroom stuffing envelopes. This has been drilled into them from the time they can talk and walk.
These kids should be out playing like all normal boys and girls, yes and with each other too, to develop normal childhood/people relationships.....
Mac.....
Loved your post #13.....
This is the strength and ideal personified that the Man said He would build his Church on. We all certainly hope that you are one of those people who can make the trial in Texarkana.....To meet you in person would be an honor and inspiration to all of us who will see justice done.....Participant, PACA in Tennessee
mac is back

Grand Rapids, MI

#17 Apr 19, 2009
Correction: Just wanted to be accurate reporting here. Not necesarily a new rule about the kids working at age 10. They've been having kids start working at a young age since the 80s. When Susie was alive she had the kids going to the Candy Bldg. on Saturday to work even as young as ages 8 and 9.
mac is back

Grand Rapids, MI

#18 Apr 19, 2009
The Participant wrote:
<quoted text>
Mac.....
Loved your post #13.....
This is the strength and ideal personified that the Man said He would build his Church on. We all certainly hope that you are one of those people who can make the trial in Texarkana.....To meet you in person would be an honor and inspiration to all of us who will see justice done.....Participant, PACA in Tennessee
Very nice of you to say Particpant, thank you. I would love to be there if just to see all my old friends and to meet you and some of the other fine Fouke residents. I feel that you are already a friend just from my association with you here on topix.

“"Just get across the street!"”

Since: Dec 08

Pleasant View, TN

#19 Apr 19, 2009
To those of us who grew up on a farm, that knowledge came early. Nothing wrong with child labor when it puts food in the mouth of family, besides learning the rule of life: "No work, No eat." The rest of your post teaches that lesson.....Participant
mac is back

Grand Rapids, MI

#20 Apr 19, 2009
You are so right Participant. Nothing wrong with children having to do chores and duties around the home, farm or wherever they lived. However, the foundation children worked to enhance the lives of Tony & Sue, to line their coffers. Their immediate families were not benefited by their labors. And then the children still had to go home and do their duties at their house.

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