Martin Luther King Jr. Day good time to reflect and commit to the dream

Jan 27, 2013 Full story: The News-Press 22

This column is adapted from remarks to The Landings community during its third annual Martin Luther King Day celebration on Jan.

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“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#1 Feb 8, 2013
Perhaps in our time it is most needful that we commit to his dream of economic justice.

Maybe we need to revisit the idea and aims of the Poor Peoples Campaign that King had planned....and the idea of an Economic Bill of Rights.
Johnny

Oak Creek, WI

#2 Feb 25, 2013
Savant wrote:
Perhaps in our time it is most needful that we commit to his dream of economic justice.
Maybe we need to revisit the idea and aims of the Poor Peoples Campaign that King had planned....and the idea of an Economic Bill of Rights.
__________

Dr. Savant, how's it going? It's been quite awhile since we blogged with a discussion & debate. Back in mid July, 2008, you mentioned to me that your ex. wife came from the Dominican Republic (DR). My mothers family also comes from the Dominican Republic (DR). A different city though than from where your ex. wife came from.

I'll address your points above.--- An attempt at organizing a "Poor Peoples Campaign" &/or an "Economic Bill of Rights" would not succeed. Especially not in 2013.

Even in the leadup to Dr. King Jr.s neutralization back in early April, 1968.--- Dr. King Jr., Dr. King Jr.s organization, Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) & allied groups had the Poor Peoples Campaign organized. But, MANY within the "Movement" had very grave doubts about the Poor Peoples Campaign succeeding. Especially Ralph Abernathy.

Even after Dr. King Jr.s assassination.-- All of Dr. King Jr.s friends in the "Movement" went forward with the Poor Peoples Campaign. When all of the organizations of the "Alliance" in the Poor Peoples Campaign made it to Washington D.C.. To undertake sit ins & civil disobedience protests.---

They all totally failed. In their attempt to achieve any of the stated goals or objectives of the Poor Peoples Campaign.

They also all totally failed in their attempt to achieve any of the stated goals or objectives of their calling for an Economic Bill of Rights.

Savant, you have to realize this.--- White-America & the United States (US) federal government will only grant CERTAIN concessions. That's it.

The goals & objectives of the Poor Peoples campaign & the calling for an Economic Bill of Rights was way too RADICAL.

Again, White-America & the US federal government will only grant CERTAIN concessions. That's it.

This is especially the deal with the US federal government.
Johnny

Oak Creek, WI

#3 Feb 25, 2013
Savant wrote:
Perhaps in our time it is most needful that we commit to his dream of economic justice.
Maybe we need to revisit the idea and aims of the Poor Peoples Campaign that King had planned....and the idea of an Economic Bill of Rights.
__________

Other reasons as to why an attempt at a "movement" for a Poor Peoples Campaign & an Economic Bill of Rights won't work. Why it will fail.

In the United States (US), "race" CANNOT be transcended.

In this nation, each & every one of Americas respective "racial" groups has their own goals, objectives & intersts. Most of all, their own interests.

Again, in the US, race CANNOT be transcended.

Back in early, 1968.--- When Dr. King Jr., Dr. King Jr.s Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) organization & some other allied groups were proposing a Poor Peoples Campaign & an Economic Bill of Rights.--- African Americans wouldn't have been the main beneficiaries.

The prime beneficiaries of the Poor Peoples Campaign & an Economic Bill of Rights would have been these.--- 1. Non-Hispanic White male union leaders. Non-Hispanic White male union members. Especially the non-Hispanic White male union leaders.

2. Non-Hispanic White women.


Even had the Poor Peoples Campaign had succeeded & an Economic Bill of Rights had passed.--- African Americans would have only somewhat benefited. Just short term. NOT long term.

Back in 1968, African Americans were Americas numerically dominant "minority" group. But, not anyone. Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are Americas numerically dominant minority group. Legals & illegals. Illegals HAVE to be counted in with legals. Since Americas Hispanic lobbying organizations represent legals & illegals.

Hispanics (Afro-Latinos included) are being given "Honorary White Status" in this nation.

Way, way back, what the Jamaican born Marcus Garvey proposed was the correct path.

From the summer, 1963 till early, 1965.--- What Malcolm X proposed was the correct path.

African Americans ONLY hope for survival in this nation lies with themselves. NO one else. To become economically self sufficient. To achieve economic solvency. To take care of each other. To have each others backs.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#4 Feb 26, 2013
Johnny wrote:
<quoted text>
__________
Dr. Savant, how's it going? It's been quite awhile since we blogged with a discussion & debate. Back in mid July, 2008, you mentioned to me that your ex. wife came from the Dominican Republic (DR). My mothers family also comes from the Dominican Republic (DR). A different city though than from where your ex. wife came from.
I'll address your points above.--- An attempt at organizing a "Poor Peoples Campaign" &/or an "Economic Bill of Rights" would not succeed. Especially not in 2013.
Even in the leadup to Dr. King Jr.s neutralization back in early April, 1968.--- Dr. King Jr., Dr. King Jr.s organization, Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) & allied groups had the Poor Peoples Campaign organized. But, MANY within the "Movement" had very grave doubts about the Poor Peoples Campaign succeeding. Especially Ralph Abernathy.
Even after Dr. King Jr.s assassination.-- All of Dr. King Jr.s friends in the "Movement" went forward with the Poor Peoples Campaign. When all of the organizations of the "Alliance" in the Poor Peoples Campaign made it to Washington D.C.. To undertake sit ins & civil disobedience protests.---
They all totally failed. In their attempt to achieve any of the stated goals or objectives of the Poor Peoples Campaign.
They also all totally failed in their attempt to achieve any of the stated goals or objectives of their calling for an Economic Bill of Rights.
Savant, you have to realize this.--- White-America & the United States (US) federal government will only grant CERTAIN concessions. That's it.
The goals & objectives of the Poor Peoples campaign & the calling for an Economic Bill of Rights was way too RADICAL.
Again, White-America & the US federal government will only grant CERTAIN concessions. That's it.
This is especially the deal with the US federal government.
Interesting argument. I will think it through and try to address it at some length a bit later.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#6 Sep 12, 2013
Savant --- Quite awhile back, on a thread on the African American forum you mentioned Frantz Fanon.

Frantzs writings, there are a lot of good points.

But, Frantzs theories. His goals & objectives.---- Are idealistic.

Frantzs goals & objectives have never been implemented by any government throughout the world.

The United States has "Identity Politics".

This nation has group dynamics, racial dynamics & racial politics.

In the United States, race CANNOT be transcended.

Each & every one of the United States respective racial groups has their own goals, objectives & interests. Most of all their own interests.

This will remain the case into the future.

It is what it is.

“Yes WE Can! Yes we Will!”

Since: Jul 07

Baltimore, Md.

#7 Sep 13, 2013
Johnny wrote:
Savant --- Quite awhile back, on a thread on the African American forum you mentioned Frantz Fanon.
Frantzs writings, there are a lot of good points.
But, Frantzs theories. His goals & objectives.---- Are idealistic.
Frantzs goals & objectives have never been implemented by any government throughout the world.
The United States has "Identity Politics".
This nation has group dynamics, racial dynamics & racial politics.
In the United States, race CANNOT be transcended.
Each & every one of the United States respective racial groups has their own goals, objectives & interests. Most of all their own interests.
This will remain the case into the future.
It is what it is.
I am simply much too busy, and never got back to you on the last post. Some speaking engagement, largely consequent to my recent book on Dr.King. And a new seminar which I must plan on the philosophical thought of Dr. King.
I think race can be transcended in its present form. And I think that Fanon "idealistic" vision of a new society without racial oppressions and class or gendered oppression is possible. It remains for us to commit ourselves to it. That no goverment has committed itself to this may be somewhat aside from the point. The question is whether the PEOPLE commit themselves? Do WE commit ourselves. Whenever any great new vision of a more just relation between human beings have been raised, immediately cautious or conservative voices counsel us to be more "realistic." And history often shows that it was precisely those "idealists" who were the most "realistic" agents in history, agents of change.
What was less "realistic" in 1776 (from the standpoint of the voices of caution and conservatism", than that idea that people could live without kings or noble, and that "we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, and endowed with certain UNALIENABLE rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"? What was less "realistic" than the idea that civilization can thrive--better indeed--without slavery than with the curse of human bondage. Haden't even Aristotle argued for the naturalness and inevitability of slavery? Had he and others (including the Bible) not argued for the eternal subjection of women? And it was members of Black entrepreneurial elite that met Dr. King him that Birmingham was too tough, that it was unrealistic to think he could prevail against Bull Connor.
Both Dr. King and Fanon, despite their disagreements on other matters, were convinced--rightly--that racism and economic oppression were inseparable, and that there must be a better, more democratic distribution of wealth if a just and humane society is to be possible. The government, even under an Obama, will do only what it must. Better then rely on the insurgent spirit and courageous struggles of the common people than on the generosity of the state or of corporate power. The people can make it happen. Power to the people!

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#8 Sep 13, 2013
Though since 1950 subverted and since Reagan nearly destroyed, the Union movement was idealistic and unrealistic, yet it succeeded.

If we waited for a "realistic" context in which to make social progress, we'd do nothing. In 1962 who'd have expected a Civil Rights Bill?

"Realism" can't hold us back. Things take time, but progress can be made.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#9 Sep 13, 2013
Sinajuavi ---- How's it going Ish Tov?

Before I respond back to your previous post. A couple of questions.----

1. Do you miss Guatemala?

2. Is La Mano Blanca still in operation?

3. Is Ojo por Ojo still in operation?

4. Is the National Liberacion Movimento still in operation?
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#10 Sep 13, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
Though since 1950 subverted and since Reagan nearly destroyed, the Union movement was idealistic and unrealistic, yet it succeeded.
__________

Well, the Reagan administration did destroy the Professional Air Traffic Controller Organization (PATCO) union.

From 1964 till now.---- The United States unions have been in decline.

Quite awhile back, I saw many of your previous posts on other threads. I saw your points. I'm in agreement. Except for one of your views.

It was in regards to some of the unions.

Not to be confrontational, but, I'd say that some of the union leaders of the United Auto Workers (UAW) have overdone it with some of their demands.

That some of the leaders of public sector unions have overdone it with some of their demands.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#11 Sep 13, 2013
Sinajuavi wrote:
If we waited for a "realistic" context in which to make social progress, we'd do nothing. In 1962 who'd have expected a Civil Rights Bill?
__________

I see your point above. I'm in agreement.

But, 1962.---- Back in 1962, the United States political, labor & social issues were totally different.

Compared to what the United States has faced from mid 1968 till now.

Barros, awhile back on a thread you typed up ---- "Robert Kennedys funeral, was the very last time that Americans of different races were standing together".---

What you stated, is very much right on the mark.

Even when many Americans of different races were standing together, it still didn't change the United States "Identity Politics".

It still didn't change the United States group dynamics, racial dynamics & racials politics.

It still didn't change the United States racial caste system.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#12 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>I am simply much too busy, and never got back to you on the last post. Some speaking engagement, largely consequent to my recent book on Dr.King. And a new seminar which I must plan on the philosophical thought of Dr. King.
__________

Hey, everything is totally cool. There was not any rush or deadline for any response back.

I myself, with my schedule have had very little time to even glance over Topix African American forum.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#14 Sep 13, 2013
Savant ---- You said "I think race can be transcended in its present form. And I think that Fanon "idealistic" vision of a new society without racial oppressions and class or gendered oppression is possible".----

Savant (With all due respect), I don't see this.

This is why I state this. Examples which show this.----

Early 1900s in the United States.---- There were unions. Which had Whites & African Americans.

At the same time, in these unions, the Whites were in a more dominant position. Over the African Americans.

Also, the United States still had the system of Jim Crow in the South. Other forms of legal segregation throughout the United States.

The United States still had a racial caste system.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#15 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>It remains for us to commit ourselves to it. That no goverment has committed itself to this may be somewhat aside from the point. The question is whether the PEOPLE commit themselves? Do WE commit ourselves.
__________

Even if people commit, the Identity Politics remain. The group dynamics, racial dynamics & racial politics remain.

The racial caste system remains.

The social strata ladder, pecking order & food chain remains.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#16 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Whenever any great new vision of a more just relation between human beings have been raised, immediately cautious or conservative voices counsel us to be more "realistic." And history often shows that it was precisely those "idealists" who were the most "realistic" agents in history, agents of change.
__________

Your 2 points above.---- I see them. I'm in agreement.

But, one must look at the time frame.

Your 2 points above.---- Are right on the mark to the left wing political, labor & social movements from 1903 till 1964.

The left wing political, labor & social movements from 1964 till now.----

This hasn't been the case.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#17 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>What was less "realistic" in 1776 (from the standpoint of the voices of caution and conservatism", than that idea that people could live without kings or noble, and that "we hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, and endowed with certain UNALIENABLE rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"?
__________

I see your points above.---- I'm in agreement.

But, the time frame.---- That was back in 1776.

The early 13 colonies political left wing cause, goals & objectives back in 1776 was very just & noble.

The cause, goals & objectives of the political left wing back in 1776 was very realistic.

Totally different compared to what the cause, goals & objectives of the United States political left wing has been from 1964 till now.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#18 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>What was less "realistic" than the idea that civilization can thrive--better indeed--without slavery than with the curse of human bondage.
__________

You are absolutely correct.

But, the time frame.----

Way, way back in the United States, primarily from 1840 till 1865.---- The United States political left wing championing the ending of legal slavery was very just & noble.

A very righteous cause.

The political, social & labor issues which were present in the United States from 1840 till 1865 were totally different.

Compared to the political, social & labor issues which have been on the table in the United States from 1964 till now.
ernie

Houston, TX

#19 Sep 13, 2013
his real name was Michael king he stole that from martin luther the protestant. Archibald wrote the dream speech, his degree was going to be revoked after he died for plagerism. he had an insatiable appetite for black women and held sex parties with church contributions
ernie

Houston, TX

#20 Sep 13, 2013
I meant an insatiable appetite for white women.
Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#21 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>And it was members of Black entrepreneurial elite that met Dr. King him that Birmingham was too tough, that it was unrealistic to think he could prevail against Bull Connor.
__________

You are absolutely correct.

The time frame.---- When Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was in that Birmingham, Alabama jail was back in mid April, 1963.

What the United States political left wing (Especially the African American political left wing) was fighting, was very just & noble.

Very righteous.

From 1954 till 1964.---- The United States political left wing (Especially the African American political left wing) was fighting against legal discrimination in housing & in job hiring. Fighting to get laws enacted which dealt with the discriminatory practices in not being able to eat at segregated lunch counters, restaurants & in hotels.

The cause of the United States political left wing (Especially for the African American political left wing) from 1954 till 1964 was totally different.

Compared to the political, labor & social issues from 1964 till now.

Johnny

Milwaukee, WI

#22 Sep 13, 2013
Savant wrote:
<quoted text>Both Dr. King and Fanon, despite their disagreements on other matters, were convinced--rightly--that racism and economic oppression were inseparable.
__________

Correct.

But, regarding this dynamic, there are also many, many other factors & variables involved.

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