HYDE: When picking all-time team, don...

HYDE: When picking all-time team, don't let modern and popular ...

There are 43 comments on the South Florida Sun-Sentinel story from Aug 18, 2007, titled HYDE: When picking all-time team, don't let modern and popular .... In it, South Florida Sun-Sentinel reports that:

Who am I? I'm small, slow, went undrafted by every NFL team and still made the Hall of Fame, thank you very much.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at South Florida Sun-Sentinel.

Johnd

Miami, FL

#22 Aug 20, 2007
Jim Mandich is a great personality and a wonderful ambassador for the Miami Dolphins. But even he admits taht someone else should have been named the all-time TE.
Sean P

United States

#23 Aug 20, 2007
My memory might be failing me and I have no way of actually measuring this but it seems that opposing teams seem to roll up a whole lot more rushing yards against Zach (and his OLBs) than they ever did against Buonoconti. Maybe Swift and Captain Krunch had something to do with that.
Jbond

Orange, CA

#24 Aug 28, 2007
I hear ya....but how well do you think "the slugger" would fare in today's "modern" baseball? How well do you think many of the older "Greats" that helped define the very sports they played...would fare against today's competitors...training, competition, strength, size, speed, how much more complex the systems are, mental grasp etc.? I don't think anyone meant any disrespect...but I'd venture to put up the top team of any recent year against a top team from 30 years ago.....I think it'd be a slaughter on the scoreboard...no disrespect to the guys that did so much for the sport. Times change...athletes change....it's a much tougher league now then it was 30 years ago.
Sean P

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#25 Aug 28, 2007
Jbond wrote:
it's a much tougher league now then it was 30 years ago.
Maybe, maybe not. Look at the number of pro teams there are now compared with the late '60s. Both eras shared the same pool of players and, like baseball, there are current players who would not have made the minor leagues 40 years ago.
JSR

Wilmington, NC

#26 Aug 28, 2007
Man oh man. Imagine having that team now.

I love Zach, but Bounticonti was just plain nasty.

I have always said if Marino had a running tandem and several of the no-names, they'd have smeared San Francisco, and quite possibly would have been the only three-peat to date.
jbond

United States

#27 Aug 28, 2007
Sean P wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe, maybe not. Look at the number of pro teams there are now compared with the late '60s. Both eras shared the same pool of players and, like baseball, there are current players who would not have made the minor leagues 40 years ago.
I respectfully beg to differ...the "pool" of players is a lot greater then it was 30 years ago. The population itself within the U.S. has increased by tens of millions of players, the number of high schools and colleges with athletic programs and football programs has increased dramatically, along with the recruiting process and visibility of athletes nationwide. "Sports" in and of itself has taken on a new meaning, a whole other level. Stars are almost idolized, worshipped by kids and adults are jealous of the insane amount of money they make, the lifestyles they lead. "Sports" and the "sports industry" is on a whole other level then it was 30 years ago. I think the players you're referencing were all the pick's Wanny made over all the years.

Another thing to point out about the article...the author writes this big diatribe about how the "newer generation" is forgetting about the "older generation"....uhmmm...I completely disagree unless his all-time team is everyone from pre-1980. Go back and check how many players were from before ZT, or JT's time...how many players picked on the "all-time" list are 15, 20, 30 years out of playing....it's close to 1/2 of the total players picked. That's not forgetting what they did....that's showing them much respect.
Woodstrock

New Orleans, LA

#28 Aug 28, 2007
John wrote:
I think George Wilson should have been named the all-time coach.
My vote would go to Joe Dokes!(an old joke)
Vazman

San Diego, CA

#29 Aug 28, 2007
I've been a Dolphin fan since 1970, so I lived through the Super Bowl years and I've seen every Dolphin Hall of Famer play. Nick Buoniconti was a great player and deserves to be in the Hall. I still chose Zach Thomas over him. That doesn't mean Buoniconti is any less great. It simply means that in my view (and many others) Thomas is even better. David Hyde states that Thomas hasn't been the dominant MLB of his era and that he isn't even the best defensive player on the team. Granted...but did Buoniconti meet those guidelines? No he didn't - there were several MLBs during the early 70's more dominant than Nick (Tommy Nobis and Jack Lambert to name a couple). Despite his status as the Dolphins only defensive Hall of Famer, it can even be argued that Nick wasn't the best player on defense (many players and writers would pick Jake Scott or Dick Anderson or Manny Fernandez). Whether or not Thomas eventually gets into the Hall is irrelevant.
Rob H

Rancho Cucamonga, CA

#30 Aug 28, 2007
I am sorry I missed the voting on the poll, but I would have stuffed the ballot box with votes for Bob Griese, my childhood hero, who continues to be my old man hero. He had a better arm than he is given credit for, and he was the leader of the great Dolphin teams. Nobody questioned his judgment as he called 98% of the plays. 6 touchdowns thrown in three quarters against the St Louis Cardinals in 1977, three touchdown passes in a row against the New England Patriots in 1971, and three straight Super Bowl appearances. All with an eye that was legally blind.

Bob Griese was and is the epitome of the classy player.

Since: Jan 07

United States

#31 Aug 29, 2007
I don't see why we can't have both Nick and Zach named to the all time Phin team. Afterall, Shula was named our all time coach, and he was the inventor of the 3-4 defense. This automatically places Bob Baumhower as the all time Phin NT...neither Timbo or Manny played NT, and while both were outstanding players, BB was better than both of them at NT. The all time Phin RB should be Del Williams...both Ricky and Merc were druggies and don't deserve the honors on that score. Stoyo was the best kicker we had. He was MUCH more consistent than Mare. Don't even talk about Garo...he played the first few years of his carreer with the goal posts on the goal line...they weren't moved to the end line until 1974. I also like Geisler and Moore over Webb...Webb was a great pass blocker, but mediocre at best as a run blocker. I like Mandich, but he was not anywhere near as good a pass catcher as Rose, Hardy, or McMike. The best TE we ever had by far, was Keith Jackson. AJ Duhe was an OLB who moved around a lot. I also think the best OLB we ever had was Hugh Green...he just had the misfortune of playing on some really bad Olivehead coached Phin efenses. Finally, Don McNeil, pre achilles injury, was better than Madison. And what about assistants??? Best DC was Arny, best OC was Stevens.

Scott

I root for Miami and anybody that plays the Jets or the Crimson Tide!
Woodstrock

New Orleans, LA

#32 Aug 29, 2007
Jhary wrote:
I don't see why we can't have both Nick and Zach named to the all time Phin team. Afterall, Shula was named our all time coach, and he was the inventor of the 3-4 defense. This automatically places Bob Baumhower as the all time Phin NT...neither Timbo or Manny played NT, and while both were outstanding players, BB was better than both of them at NT. The all time Phin RB should be Del Williams...both Ricky and Merc were druggies and don't deserve the honors on that score. Stoyo was the best kicker we had. He was MUCH more consistent than Mare. Don't even talk about Garo...he played the first few years of his carreer with the goal posts on the goal line...they weren't moved to the end line until 1974. I also like Geisler and Moore over Webb...Webb was a great pass blocker, but mediocre at best as a run blocker. I like Mandich, but he was not anywhere near as good a pass catcher as Rose, Hardy, or McMike. The best TE we ever had by far, was Keith Jackson. AJ Duhe was an OLB who moved around a lot. I also think the best OLB we ever had was Hugh Green...he just had the misfortune of playing on some really bad Olivehead coached Phin efenses. Finally, Don McNeil, pre achilles injury, was better than Madison. And what about assistants??? Best DC was Arny, best OC was Stevens.
Scott
I root for Miami and anybody that plays the Jets or the Crimson Tide!
I love a lot of your comments! Nothing like debating over the all-time list because you really can't go wrong with any of the selections.

My only somewhat different point of view come to Hugh Green. Hugh was a favorite of mine when he came over to the Fins and was supposed to be the 'Dan Marino' of the defense. But when he tore up his knee in early '86, he never regained his Pro Bowl form that he had in Tampa. As a matter of fact, he was off on a tear that year in '86 and had 4 sacks in just the first three games before he shredded his knee. Too bad too, because it looked like he might have been that impact player they were looking for back then.

Since: Jan 07

United States

#33 Aug 29, 2007
Woodstrock wrote:
<quoted text> I love a lot of your comments! Nothing like debating over the all-time list because you really can't go wrong with any of the selections.
My only somewhat different point of view come to Hugh Green. Hugh was a favorite of mine when he came over to the Fins and was supposed to be the 'Dan Marino' of the defense. But when he tore up his knee in early '86, he never regained his Pro Bowl form that he had in Tampa. As a matter of fact, he was off on a tear that year in '86 and had 4 sacks in just the first three games before he shredded his knee. Too bad too, because it looked like he might have been that impact player they were looking for back then.
Well, when you look at our selections for all time OLB's, BB was a run stuffer, but not much of a threat rushing the passer, and he couldn't cover worth crap. Cox was a great pass rusher, but very average against the run, and downright awful in pass coverage...he just didn't have the discipline you need to be considered an all time great...he was more likely to get a PF call than he was to make a big play for you. But Hugh...he trashed BOTH his knees, one year apart, but still was the best OLB we ever had...he could do it all, even after his injuries: rush the passer, cover, and play the run. He'd have made the pro bowl for us a number of times if we had just had a good defense around him. But Marino and our great offense were burning up records and getting all the press.

Another guy that never gets mentioned who was another standout OLB for us, was EJ Junior. He could do it all too.

Scott

I root for Miami and anybody that plays the Jets or the Crimson Tide!
Sean P

Schuylkill Haven, PA

#34 Aug 29, 2007
Woodstrock wrote:
<quoted text>My vote would go to Joe Dokes!(an old joke)
Joe Dokes against Plastic Man... a classic matchup!
Woodstrock

New Orleans, LA

#35 Aug 29, 2007
Sean P wrote:
<quoted text>
Joe Dokes against Plastic Man... a classic matchup!
Great post!!! LOL!!!
Dallas Dolphin Fan

Denton, TX

#36 Sep 1, 2007
When this article first appeared, I posted a comment critical of Mr. Hyde's chiding of Dolphin fans opinions.
I saw that my comments were actually posted.
Funny that I return to read the comments 10 days later, and the critical comments have been taken off of the message thread.
My point that Mr. Hyde and his shoddy newspaper don't care about reader opinions is VALIDATED!!!
Bravo....
A-holes.
david from canada

Ottawa, Canada

#38 Sep 1, 2007
If you could draft one Dolphin all time CB... given longevity and productivity... how could you not go with Troy Vincent?
Dolfan from SF

San Rafael, CA

#39 Sep 3, 2007
I remember the Dolphins all the way back to 1966. Many Dolfans were still in the walls of humanity & just don't relate well to the guys who played in those early days. It's too hard to say who was better between Jim Langer & Dwight Stephenson. Tim Ruddy ain't close. At guards, Little & Kuech dominate w/Ed Newman & Keith Sims a distant second. At tackles, Richmond Webb is definitely in. Wayne Moore deserves to be in just as much as Norm Evans. As WR, Clayton & Duper have the WR numbers. But Paul Warfield dominates. Clayton is next. My honorable mention would be Nat Moore. You can't measure it by fantasy numbers but by the way he consistently made plays.

My RB's are Csonk and the 2-headed combo of Merc's breakaway ability & Kiick's ability to make the plays that the team needed to play whether it be first downs or touchdowns. Ricky Williams had more talent, but I don't vote for guys who quit and consistently how lack of character.

On defense I could go with either Zack or Buoniconti as my MLB. It was hard for me to pick standouts at the other LB positions. Kolen, Swift, & Matheson 53 were solid championship linebackers. My two favorites were AJ Duhe & John Offerdahl. Duhe was a killer bee standout & Offerdahl made plays despite the adversity he faced with injuries & a mediocre defense in that era. Standouts at DE are JT and Stanfill. Den Herder & Jeff Cross are players as well. At DT or NT, I can't forget the way Manny consistently made plays or the consistent toughness of Tim Bowens. But I can't leave out Bob Baumhower for his longevity, toughness & play making abilities.

My first choices in the secondary are definitely Madison, Surtain, Jake Scott, & Dick Anderson. Nobody played at the level that these studs played at.

I respect Reggie Roby's ability to boom punts, but I can't forget the fake punts & verstility that helped Larry Seiple make crucial special team plays. We had fine kickers like Garo, Stoyanovich, & Mare. Mare lasted the longest until his ability declined over the last 3 years. Crash Jensen stands out on special teams for his overall versatility along with toughness. But I have high respect for Lloyd Mumphord, Bernie Parmalee & Larry Izzo.

My standouts around KR turn out to be Mercury Morris & Jake Scott. I had a hard time w/this position.
Dan

Las Vegas, NV

#40 Sep 3, 2007
The argument that Nick was better than Zach becuase he is in the Hall of Fame is like saying that Mark Rypkin is better than Dan Marino because he has a Super Bowl win. One has accomplishment has nothing to do with the other. Zach is the man, quit your whining. You contend that recent players receive prefferential treatment because of being popular today. I think that alternatley, a yearning for the "good old days" can make you think these guys were better than they were. I am not trying to take anything away from Nick, but for the life of me I cannot see how he is in anyway better than Mr. Thomas.
dave hyde sux

AOL

#42 Sep 7, 2007
david from canada wrote:
If you could draft one Dolphin all time CB... given longevity and productivity... how could you not go with Troy Vincent?
madison and surtain were both here longer and were both more productive than vincent were.
Mike 17-0

Youngstown, OH

#43 Sep 15, 2007
Your argument isn't even reasonable. One position on a Super Bowl winning team vs one who is in the HOF. I also believe Nick was a better LB than Zach. What has Thomas done to warrant anyone saying that he was better than Nick? Get real.
Dan wrote:
The argument that Nick was better than Zach becuase he is in the Hall of Fame is like saying that Mark Rypkin is better than Dan Marino because he has a Super Bowl win. One has accomplishment has nothing to do with the other. Zach is the man, quit your whining. You contend that recent players receive prefferential treatment because of being popular today. I think that alternatley, a yearning for the "good old days" can make you think these guys were better than they were. I am not trying to take anything away from Nick, but for the life of me I cannot see how he is in anyway better than Mr. Thomas.

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