Watchdog group says cross, religious motto should be removed fr...

Full story: 5News KFSM 14
A religious watchdog group says a cross and religious motto on the emblem of an Army hospital in Colorado violate the constitutional requirement for separation of church and state and should be removed. Read more
Junky

Van Buren, AR

#1 Apr 29, 2010
What's next, turning the Red Cross into the Red Triangle?

Decades long fight to get rid of religion in government, well, I hope you can see where that's gotten us. Perhaps the ones that put those symbols into government had the right idea all along.

I don't go to church but agree with a lot of the ideas taught in church. The same ideas being removed from government. The ideas that helped us be great for over 150 years. Now, in the last few decades, how our country has fallen.

50 years ago we could visit most countries and get a welcome, now we're lucky if we aren't shot and robbed.

Started with "political correctness" which is the same thing as censorship. Americans used to be all against censorship but now that they call it PC, it's okay to censor what people say.
just me

Saint Louis, MO

#3 May 5, 2010
Why are the Anti-Christians so afraid of God and his symbol ?? The Devil is indeed at work in America. Symbols or not - we, the Christians will win in the end. And I agree w/ Rev. Graham - Obama is definitly Anti-Christian, but I said that all along, BEFORE he was elected.
Big Guy

Colorado Springs, CO

#4 May 7, 2010
PART 1-

Supreme Court supports cross in national park by Joan Biskupic - Apr. 28, 2010 10:36 AM

USA Today

WASHINGTON - A deeply divided Supreme Court revived congressional efforts Wednesday to permit a wooden cross erected in the Mojave National Preserve 70 years ago to remain on the park grounds.

By a 5-4 vote, the justices reversed a lower court decision that had invalidated a federal law designed to let the cross remain, in the face of a challenge that it constituted a government endorsement of religion.

The decision does not reinstate the law, but returns the case to the lower court and strengthens the government's hand to allow crosses and other religious symbols on public grounds.

"Although certainly a Christian symbol, the cross was not emplaced on Sunrise Rock to promote a Christian message," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote of the cross that was put up in 1934 by the Veterans of Foreign Wars to commemorate U.S. soldiers who died in World War I. "Rather, those who erected the cross intended simply to honor
our nation's fallen soldiers."

Kennedy was joined in the vote - requiring a new hearing and enhancing federal arguments to keep the cross - by the four more conservative justices. Yet they splintered on their legal reasoning, and only Chief Justice John Roberts signed Kennedy's opinion in full.

Dissenting were the court's four liberal justices. "I certainly agree that the nation should memorialize the service of those who fought and died in World War I," Justice John Paul Stevens, who served in World War II, wrote in his dissent, "but it cannot lawfully do so by continued endorsement of a starkly sectarian message."

The case began in 2001 when Frank Buono, a retired park service worker, sued the federal government, objecting to the Park Service's allowing the cross but no other religious symbols at the California site. Park officials had rejected a request for a Buddhist shrine near the cross.

The cross structure at the Sunrise Rock outcropping has been replaced several times since 1934, and the current cross, erected in 1998, is about five feet tall and made of white-painted pipe.

Lower federal courts ruled that the cross at the national preserve violated the required constitutional separation of church and state under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. A judge ordered the cross taken down, and the government appealed.
The cross has since been covered with a plywood box.

The question before the justices Wednesday was not the validity of the lower court decisions finding a constitutional violation, but rather whether Congress' law attempting to save the cross was permissible. Congress designated the cross a national memorial
and, in 2004, passed a law calling for the transfer of the property on which the cross at Sunrise Rock sits. Congress ordered the land given to the VFW in exchange for a parcel elsewhere in the preserve.

The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit rejected the effect of the 2004 law, saying it ran "afoul" of a district court judge's order forbidding display of the cross.

Kennedy said the lower court judge was wrong to concentrate on the religious aspects of the cross.
Big Guy

Colorado Springs, CO

#5 May 7, 2010
PART 2

"A Latin Cross is not merely a reaffirmation of Christian beliefs," he wrote. "It is a symbol
often used to honor and respect those whose heroic acts, noble contributions, and patient striving help secure an honored place in history for this nation and its people."

Kennedy said a district court judge was wrong to then dismiss Congress' motives in the 2004 law "as illicit" and should have more fully considered the context in which the land-transfer statute was passed before concluding that observers would think the cross an endorsement of religion.

"The goal of avoiding governmental endorsement does not require eradication of all religious symbols in the public realm," Kennedy wrote. "A cross by the side of a public highway marking, for instance, the place where a state trooper perished need not be taken as a statement of governmental support for sectarian beliefs. The Constitution does not oblige government to avoid any public acknowledgement of religion's role in society."

Joining Kennedy in reviving the government's case in Salazar v. Buono, along with Roberts, were Justices Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas and Samuel Alito.

Dissenting along with Stevens were Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Stephen Breyer and Sonia Sotomayor.
Filled with God

Brattleboro, VT

#6 May 7, 2010
To truly know Him, you need to be FILLED with the spirit of Jesus! Bring the Lord truly INTO you!

http://www.divine-interventions.com/jackhamme...

Glory!
juggalo

Fort Smith, AR

#7 May 7, 2010
ok people who has no clue.
1.The symbol of the cross is not the symbol of god.jesus was the one who was hung on the cross,not god so therefore the symbol of the cross is jesus.
2.The Lord is not jesus,jesus is the son of god,the lord is God.
You know all you so called christians are again and I will say it,are hypercrites,you do not know the right symbol to the right person and do not celebrate the right person at the right time.Also you all talk about not hating cause that is a sin,but yet from what I read you show hate.
Christians are not suppose to hate but you do,you judge when you are not allowed to.
Just cause you go to church will not give you the pass top heaven.
As for the anti-christ,that to me is the entire poltician people,anyonme who is a politician is the anti-christ,not just one person.
I am not a god person at all cause I have always said that just cause you created this does not make you a god.
Also I feel it should be removed cause not everyone is a so called christian,so therefore you should NEVER try to force anyone elses religion onto others.PERIOD.
I know that you will not agree with me on this cause most of you are to closed minded and brainwashed with the so called preachers who basically is begging for your money than speaking the word,we have allot of that going on in Fort Smith.
So you can say this and that,but the fact is that we need that one other commandment
"THOU SHALL KEEP THOU RELIGION TO THOU SELF"
EddieBair

Fayetteville, AR

#8 May 7, 2010
The difference between a Republican Conservative and a Liberal Democrat...

A Conservative sees a symbol of _____ and decides to not look at it any more.

A Liberal demands that everyone not be able to see it, even though it is only he who is offended.

Get over it dude! Don't look at it!
Filled with God

Brattleboro, VT

#9 May 7, 2010
No NO - Face HIM, be FILLED with the Lord! OH the Glory of feeling him INSIDE me! Praise Be!

http://www.divine-interventions.com/jackhamme ...

Glory!
Junky

Van Buren, AR

#10 May 7, 2010
The cross should stay. Otherwise all the other crosses in the military (and this cross was put up to the memory of military vets) will have to go to.

# Distinguished Service Cross
# Navy Cross
# Air Force Cross
# Distinguished Flying Cross

Words and symbols can have more than one meaning. The cross in this instance was not put up as a religious symbol but as a military one.
Heaven

Brattleboro, VT

#11 May 7, 2010
Hey Junky boy. A symmetrical cross like + yes, a Roman Torture Cross --- longer in the vertical, shorter in the horizontal, and that bar placed in the top 1/3? Thats a primarily Christian symbol, and you know it.

Have the courage to fight for your superstitions boy!
Amused

Greenfield, MA

#12 May 8, 2010
Filled with God wrote:
To truly know Him, you need to be FILLED with the spirit of Jesus! Bring the Lord truly INTO you!
http://www.divine-interventions.com/jackhamme...
Glory!
Heh! That site is funny, it has Buddha, Allah and other superstition based sex toys too!
Junky

Van Buren, AR

#14 Jun 21, 2010
Heaven wrote:
Hey Junky boy. A symmetrical cross like + yes, a Roman Torture Cross --- longer in the vertical, shorter in the horizontal, and that bar placed in the top 1/3? Thats a primarily Christian symbol, and you know it.
Have the courage to fight for your superstitions boy!
Missed the point of my post; Antireligious people will see the word "cross" and immediately be against it because the cross can be used as a religious symbol.

.. and I'm not religious, haven't been to church in almost 30 years (since I became an adult and could choose for myself).
Carlin

Brattleboro, VT

#15 Jun 21, 2010
George Carlin pointed out that if the story of Jesus was set in modern times, Catholic children would be wearing little electric chair symbols around their neck.
Muddy

Wise, VA

#16 Jul 1, 2010
just me wrote:
Why are the Anti-Christians so afraid of God and his symbol ?? The Devil is indeed at work in America. Symbols or not - we, the Christians will win in the end. And I agree w/ Rev. Graham - Obama is definitly Anti-Christian, but I said that all along, BEFORE he was elected.
They are not "afraid" of it..but often, Christians want only their symbols and are intolerant of others.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Fort Carson Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Pueblo DA and Chief of Police abuse the law and... (Dec '11) 9 hr victor freeman 11
corrupt colorado courts 9 hr victor freeman 5
Contact FBI on PUEBLO COURT CORRUPTION /andST... (Sep '11) Mon victor freeman 25
News Worship Anthems Inspired By TV Event, "A.D. The... Mar 28 Baby 2
looking for some one (Jul '09) Mar 28 Bookgirl49 3
annette marion owes the estate to yv ette handf... Mar 27 ANNETTEMENACE 1
News Fort Carson soldiers train to stay healthy whil... Nov '14 Scorned 8

Fire Warning for El Paso County was issued at March 31 at 1:00PM MDT

Fort Carson Dating
Find my Match
More from around the web

Fort Carson People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]