Paul Carpenter - Clarify the assisted suicide debate

T here is a good way to resolve a large part of the debate over legalizing physician-assisted suicide. Full Story
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ANN

Reading, PA

#1 Aug 9, 2009
Does anyone believe that parents want their children to become doctors to help people? Hardly. Does anyone believe that doctors go into medicine to help people? Hardly. Does anyone believe that politicians go into politics to serve people? Hardly. It's all about the money.
LVF

Reading, PA

#2 Aug 9, 2009
This decision shouldn't be made when a person is suffering nor should it be made by family ever.

The decision should be made and written in a living will that clearly spells out what the person wants 'in the end' when the person is still healthy and of sound mind.

The question is whether or not guidelines can be written into law. Quite a challenge.
tom

Laurys Station, PA

#3 Aug 9, 2009
LVF wrote:
This decision shouldn't be made when a person is suffering nor should it be made by family ever.
The decision should be made and written in a living will that clearly spells out what the person wants 'in the end' when the person is still healthy and of sound mind.
The question is whether or not guidelines can be written into law. Quite a challenge.
Many people are of sound mind, but are suffering more than they can bear or tolerate. You can't make a decision on what you would want until you're there experiencing living the pain.
Disturbed

Bethlehem, PA

#4 Aug 9, 2009
ANN wrote:
Does anyone believe that parents want their children to become doctors to help people? Hardly. Does anyone believe that doctors go into medicine to help people? Hardly. Does anyone believe that politicians go into politics to serve people? Hardly. It's all about the money.
Well said, Ann! It's one more group who thinks only THEY know what is best for us as individuals. The state attempts to control how we live our lives so it follows that they feel only they can control how we end our lives. The truth is always found by following the money.
Try sobriety

Allentown, PA

#5 Aug 9, 2009
tom wrote:
<quoted text>
Many people are of sound mind, but are suffering more than they can bear or tolerate. You can't make a decision on what you would want until you're there experiencing living the pain.
That's true. One should have the right to choose. Soundness of mind does not leave one as soon as pain starts. I suggest being able to write into one's will what one wants for the end of life and having the right to change one's mind.
Forks Gal

Whitehall, PA

#6 Aug 9, 2009
Paul,
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the Hippocratic Oath forbids abortion and dispensing deadly drugs.

However, just because we are killing 1 million (give or take) a year, doesn't justify adding to that.

As for putting down a suffering dog, my vet told me I had to put my dog down 6 years ago. I took my dog home to decide, hoping she would improve. She did. The vet had the wrong diagnosis because she wouldn't listen to me. I would agree that my dog is not the same as my children or parents, however, I would give so much to have had another 6 years with my sister, who died of cancer. Doctors are wrong, and families would be motivated by money (or frustration) to dispatch of their family members.

One wrong doesn't justify a second wrong. Your logic is faulty, as usual, Paul.

And I stand by what I've said again and again and again ... if the problem is lack of pain treatment, why isn't anyone calling for a "war on pain?" Medical researchers and drug discovery chemists, if given the call (or grant money) to focus on this problem, will.

But no ... let's just kill 'em, and save us all a lot of headache. After all, it works for unwanted fetuses!
Forks Gal

Whitehall, PA

#7 Aug 9, 2009
Try sobriety wrote:
<quoted text>
That's true. One should have the right to choose. Soundness of mind does not leave one as soon as pain starts. I suggest being able to write into one's will what one wants for the end of life and having the right to change one's mind.
Actually, the ability to make decisions is extremely limited with the initial onset of pain. In short, people revert back to the thinking and problem solving of someone younger than 12 (give or take). They may seem fully sound, but their decision making capabilities, particulary if you add any stressors to it is greatly diminished.

If the problem is pain management ... focus on fixing that problem, not dispatching of the unwanted.
Cornelia in S Whitehall

Fairport, NY

#8 Aug 9, 2009
Hey, Paul, reread your Hippocratic oath! It forbids abortion with a pessary, whatever that is. No mention of any other method. By and large, your impulses are correct, but I strongly doubt the profit motive is what is really driving this. I suspect it is more a fear of murky waters and nasty lawsuits.
Bethlehem

Bethlehem, PA

#9 Aug 9, 2009
Guess the MC didn't like my comments they deleated it, Oh well what do you expect from a from a RAG Paper.
Sam

Emmaus, PA

#10 Aug 9, 2009
Paul, what is this? Irratainment? You can do better.

<<tyrannical clerics>>

I think ONLY people who have watched a loved on beg for relief should comment on the subject.

And, if you really think that G*d will take care of the pain, you've never witnessed the reality.
logical thinker

Camp Hill, PA

#11 Aug 9, 2009
Disturbed wrote:
<quoted text>
Well said, Ann! It's one more group who thinks only THEY know what is best for us as individuals. The state attempts to control how we live our lives so it follows that they feel only they can control how we end our lives. The truth is always found by following the money.
I hate to break it to you, but politicians do not make much money. It's public record: look it up. I'm sure you'll be surprised to see that Sen. Leach makes less money than my brother-in-law, who is a first grade teacher.

Secondly, this bill only provides OPTIONS for people who are suffering. It does not "control how we end our lives." We'll see how you feel when you reach your end - I bet if you're suffering from the untreatable, horribly painful, misery that is cancer, I bet you'd sing a different tune.
John

AOL

#12 Aug 9, 2009
This may be the first week in history that Bill White has written a more significant article than Paul Carpenter.

Thats not saying much...

But it's saying something.
Jimmy Placebo

Blakeslee, PA

#13 Aug 9, 2009
I was at a town hall meeting and I heard that Obama's health plan will have all white heterosexual men euthanized after age fifty because they're only racist, sexist pigs anyway.
Ems worker

Arlington, VA

#14 Aug 9, 2009
It would put less drain on the health care system. This should def be an option for people. These doctors like to send old people out for all these expensive medical test and load them up with meds just to keep them alive for a couple more years as a vegtable. Meanwhile these people are laying in nursing homes who are just out for money and the do nothing but lay in their own piss and shit.
WilleyLoman

Barnesville, PA

#15 Aug 9, 2009
Take Two Aspirin And Call Me When Your Cancer is Stage 4
ObamaCare Cares for you !
WilleyLoman

Barnesville, PA

#16 Aug 9, 2009
Question :: How does a clown and a polititian differ?
Amswer :: By the clothes they wear to work .

“Carbon Neutral”

Since: May 07

Berks and Lehigh Counties

#17 Aug 9, 2009
The good Republican - or any person with commpassion - should back those who believe that the state should have no say in the way someone chooses to die. If they had wanted to take a contrarian view earlier, it would today be impossible to make an enforcable "living will" and impossible to write an advance directive filed with the medical provider stating when extraordinary measures should end.

To bring this concept in conformity with the concept of living wills and advance directives, a person should be able to receive whatever extraordinary measures necessary to relieve pain (emotional as well as physical) up to and including death, as long as two physicians independently sign off on the living will/advance directive.

Perhaps ending palliative care is a bit unrealistic once a person would elect to begin the process of the end of life. This is the time when a person can come to closure with family and friends; he or she shouldn't be required, after signing on the dotted line, to carry out the plans as written. I recently heard a hospice nurse say that if she had to choose a way to die, it would not be sudden - it would be cancer. Her rationale was that she would have the time to achieve closure.

Imagine saying something nasty to a loved one in the morning, then receiving a phone call from a hospital telling you that the person had died. The last moments you'd remember would be harsh ones. People deserve respect and time at the end of their lives so that they can make things right.
wow

Hellertown, PA

#18 Aug 9, 2009
logical thinker wrote:
<quoted text>
I hate to break it to you, but politicians do not make much money. It's public record: look it up. I'm sure you'll be surprised to see that Sen. Leach makes less money than my brother-in-law, who is a first grade teacher.
Secondly, this bill only provides OPTIONS for people who are suffering. It does not "control how we end our lives." We'll see how you feel when you reach your end - I bet if you're suffering from the untreatable, horribly painful, misery that is cancer, I bet you'd sing a different tune.
yes but don't congress and senetors get paid for life after they leave office? and they get medical for life also ?
wow

Hellertown, PA

#19 Aug 9, 2009
Jimmy Placebo wrote:
I was at a town hall meeting and I heard that Obama's health plan will have all white heterosexual men euthanized after age fifty because they're only racist, sexist pigs anyway.
LOL what do you expect from a half breed POS
The truth

United States

#20 Aug 9, 2009
Forks Gal wrote:
Paul,
I wholeheartedly agree with you that the Hippocratic Oath forbids abortion and dispensing deadly drugs.
However, just because we are killing 1 million (give or take) a year, doesn't justify adding to that.
As for putting down a suffering dog, my vet told me I had to put my dog down 6 years ago. I took my dog home to decide, hoping she would improve. She did. The vet had the wrong diagnosis because she wouldn't listen to me. I would agree that my dog is not the same as my children or parents, however, I would give so much to have had another 6 years with my sister, who died of cancer. Doctors are wrong, and families would be motivated by money (or frustration) to dispatch of their family members.
One wrong doesn't justify a second wrong. Your logic is faulty, as usual, Paul.
And I stand by what I've said again and again and again ... if the problem is lack of pain treatment, why isn't anyone calling for a "war on pain?" Medical researchers and drug discovery chemists, if given the call (or grant money) to focus on this problem, will.
But no ... let's just kill 'em, and save us all a lot of headache. After all, it works for unwanted fetuses!
Since you used a dog as your example to justify your point, I am going to guess that you have never had a close loved one go through the dying process. Pleae fon't take that as a shot to you. I wish I could say that i haven't had that experience. unfortunately, I have. I watched both my parents suffwer long and very painful deaths to cancer, and have worked as a Hospice social worker.(that's the palliative care Paul refers to). I know about this subject well, and can tell you that I have worked with a lot of familes, many very religious, and more of them than you would ever beleive have asked how they can end it. There is no way to know what it is like to see a loved one that you know is going to die, suffer until you actualy are there. Aside from any cost argument, keeping people alive when they are ready to go, and they are in agony is cruel. I believe in God and Jesus, and my god would never want anyone to suffer that way. I ahve seen it, and it is awful.

Your comments at the end of your post is insensitive, cruel, and igorant. I have seen amny desperate families, but never one that came close to wanting to end the life of their loved on for their own needs, or to end a "headache". It is not about gettign rid of a problem. It'ts about having some control over your life at the very end.

What you fail to understand is in the end, the brain begins to decompensate. As that happens people often say things they don't mean, reveal "secrets" they never wanted to reveal, and become someone that they never were before. This is damaging and painful, and can harm the legacy they built over the course of theor lifetime.

Please don't be so flip about a subject you obviously know nothing about.

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