occpancy, no.of people allowed in a three bedroom house

Posted in the Florissant Forum

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1 - 16 of 16 Comments Last updated Feb 18, 2013
larry

Florissant, MO

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#1
Aug 8, 2012
 
how many so called people are allowed tolive in a three bedroom house if they have a permit
Opinion and Perspective

Florissant, MO

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#2
Aug 8, 2012
 
larry wrote:
how many so called people are allowed tolive in a three bedroom house if they have a permit
Larry - call City Hall - they should be able to tell you.
ordinance uneforceable

AOL

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#3
Aug 8, 2012
 
regardless of what city hall tells you, the ordinance isn't enforced in Florissant. They will tell you they will check into it, but, they never enforce the ordinance.
Florissant has weak law enforcement.
Granny 80 and counting

Florissant, MO

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#4
Aug 9, 2012
 
larry wrote:
how many so called people are allowed tolive in a three bedroom house if they have a permit
It isn't that the city doesn't want to enforce housing codes, it's that it is extremely difficult to do. It used to be in Florissant that anyone living in a private residence regardless of it's size had to be "blood related".

Quite a few years ago the ACLU and HUD sued the city for discrimination and won the lawsuit. Now for the city to enforce the occupancy laws they have to prove where the person(S) actually live by showing whoever it is uses the residence as a mailing address. That was one of the stipulations by the court after the city lost the lawsuit.

So, all a person has to do is not list the place as his or her mailing address and claim they are just "visiting". The problem seems to be getting worse and was discussed rather loudly at a city council meeting a few months back.

There doesn't seem to be a solution except for another lawsuit and believe me they are very, very expensive to pursue.
guess what

Florissant, MO

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#5
Aug 9, 2012
 
Public works said only 5 people should be there. The items above are right, they don't follow through.
Thomas

Florissant, MO

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#6
Aug 9, 2012
 

Judged:

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ordinance uneforceable wrote:
regardless of what city hall tells you, the ordinance isn't enforced in Florissant. They will tell you they will check into it, but, they never enforce the ordinance.
Florissant has weak law enforcement.
Like "Granny" said in her post, the city lost a lot of rights to occupancy numbers and other issues like subsidizing in the ACLU/HUD suit. Hazelwood and just about every other community has had the same thing happen or will have eventually.

There's no way to prove someone has a permanent residence somewhere unless they have a mailing address on file at the post office for that house. All the people living there who are not on the occupancy permit have to do is say they are just visiting for a couple of days and then leave for a day or so, or even an hour.

We have the same problem in our neighborhood, it's been going on for years. The house is a three bedroom like all the ones on the block but at any given time there are 8 or more people living there. It is so bad that some of us think they are renting rooms. Our neighborhood association president has met with Florissant's housing manager and the mayor (including Lowrey when he was mayor) and there's nothing they can do. If there is trouble, like a fight or something then they can take some action but it would be temporary.

That's what happens when hard working, law abiding, good people have their rights stomped on. Sorry to sound harsh, but the issue is a really touchy one for me. And before anyone starts...the people who live there aren't black nor are their "visitors".

I long for the good ol' days when Eagan didn't put up with that kind of BS!
Hunter

Florissant, MO

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#7
Aug 9, 2012
 

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Thomas, thanks for the insight. You said they aren't black...that's fine. But for those of us who are curious what are they...White, Hispanic, Muslims, Asians, Native Americans? Thanks.
Thomas

Florissant, MO

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#8
Aug 9, 2012
 
Hunter wrote:
Thomas, thanks for the insight. You said they aren't black...that's fine. But for those of us who are curious what are they...White, Hispanic, Muslims, Asians, Native Americans? Thanks.
They're white. They've lived there like myself since the subdivison was built. The house originally belonged to the parents but the dad passed away and the mother just 'disappeared'. For all I know the way things are there she's buried in the basement.

The second oldest son owns the house now and he lives there with his two daughters who dropped out of school as soon as they could. One of them was arrested a couple of times for solicitation the other one has a couple of kids by ?. The dad was in and out of jail when he was younger for dealing in stolen goods, marijuana sales, assault with intent and who knows what else. What happened to his two brothers is anyone's guess but they weren't exactly the cream of the crop.

The whole situation has been weird for years and years. It used to be the cops were there on a daily basis for just about anything you can name. Pit bulls running loose. Garbage stacked up to the windows in a van they parked in the drive. One of the males living there poured gasoline on his lady friend and tried to set her on fire. Some whack job friend/relative parked a trailer in the side yard and hooked up a electric cord to the outside outlet, used the yard for their personal toilet. They hang their clothes on the fence to dry or on their cars the ones they change the plates back and forth on.(Yeah they got ticketed for that over and over but they still do it). Had more cars impounded and towed then I have even owned. I could go on and on but it would take up this space and ten times more.

What's so confusing to me and others is their parents were a big deal in the parish. Their dad coached all kinds of sports teams and owned a pretty profitable business. The kids though, nothing but trouble from the get go, trashing peoples property, beating up younger kids, shooting dogs with their pellet guns, you name it they did it or will do it.

It's not that the cops and the city attorney didn't try, it just that the people don't give a tinker's damn. They do their time or pay their fine and back to the same old same old.

Oh yeah, and the father/owner liked to pee off the front porch just at the time the kids were standing on the corner to catch the school bus. He got caught because people called the cops and they put a plain clothes officer in a car to watch for him. He got out a couple weeks ago from the county lockup but so far hasn't to my knowledge resumed his performance. But then school is just starting up again, so...?

Sounds like I am spouting a lot of BS but it's unfortunately true, every single word and more.
Hunter

Florissant, MO

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#9
Aug 9, 2012
 
Wow...makes my neighbor that I don't like look like a saint. Thanks for the perspective.
been there

Ballwin, MO

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#10
Aug 9, 2012
 

Judged:

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Occupancy is based on the square footage of the bedrooms. A three bedroom house normally allows 5 to 6 people.
The police can check with the school district to find out how many children are enrolled, the election board to find out how many are registered to vote and the DMV to find out how many had driver's licensess. The last resort is to put up a camera and count heads every morning and night.
The problem is they don't send kids to school, don't vote, don't have drivers licenses and don't have a daily routine like going to work.
Don't quit complaining. It takes time but worth it in the end.
In the neighborhood

Saint Louis, MO

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#11
Aug 22, 2012
 
I see the same thing on corner of Waterford and Derhake. I dont know how many actually live there but they are not children. Usually 6 + cars and 2 in car port has no license on them. I know its a rental. Has been for a while.
Thomas

Florissant, MO

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#12
Aug 22, 2012
 
In the neighborhood wrote:
I see the same thing on corner of Waterford and Derhake. I dont know how many actually live there but they are not children. Usually 6 + cars and 2 in car port has no license on them. I know its a rental. Has been for a while.
I think it's a serious problem in some neighborhoods and I am not referring to any particular race. We've had the problem in our neighborhood for years and years and that kind of thing really does hurt property values.

I realize times are tough for some and sometimes the younger generation needs to move back home for awhile. That's not what I am ticked off about. I am upset that the house on my street is a total mess, the structure and the people who stay there. The city and police do the best they can but the people who live there learned to work the system ten ways to Sunday way back when.

Like someone on here said, you are either a decent person living a decent life or your_______(fill in the blank). If you're not a good neighbor and a good citizen I don't think anything or anyone is going to change that.

To coin an overly used but applicable adage..."you can't fix stupid".
Hunter

Florissant, MO

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#13
Aug 22, 2012
 
Thomas wrote:
<quoted text>
Like someone on here said, you are either a decent person living a decent life or your_______(fill in the blank). If you're not a good neighbor and a good citizen I don't think anything or anyone is going to change that.
Agreed...you're either a decent upstanding citizen or you're basically a dirtbag. There doesn't seem to be much in between.
gapeach

Springfield, MO

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#14
Feb 17, 2013
 
Check with fire codes...2 people per bedroom in Missouri. If you are not in compliance with fire codes and there is an insurance claim, you can bet the insurance company will not be obligated to pay and you can be held liable.
no enforcement

Vienna, MO

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#15
Feb 18, 2013
 
Florissant and most municipalities and the county just don't enforce these laws.
hardhead

Saint Louis, MO

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#16
Feb 18, 2013
 
same thing around me, junk car parts piled up on side of house, firewood stackedup on ground creating rodent problems. house around corner gutter and fascia falling off. start writing tickets and when they don't comply arrest them and send them done to clayton,you know they will be wanted for something. cars all over the place with expired plates, whats the deal with this? that's one of the reasons the city is going down the tubes.START ENFORCING THE ORDINANCES!

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