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1 - 19 of 19 Comments Last updated Nov 11, 2012
Guest

Saint Peters, MO

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#1
Nov 3, 2012
 
Is it true Mr Rice had purchased the property at the end of Florissant Rd?
low income housing

Florissant, MO

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#3
Nov 4, 2012
 
It is not Larry Rice, but could be just as bad. Low Income housing is trying to build there.
guess what

Florissant, MO

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#4
Nov 4, 2012
 
Heard that Steven Jackson has bought houses in Florissant for people to live in.
guess what

Florissant, MO

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#6
Nov 5, 2012
 
Ram's football.
Wrong Info

Florissant, MO

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#7
Nov 5, 2012
 
low income housing wrote:
It is not Larry Rice, but could be just as bad. Low Income housing is trying to build there.
The property is not for "low income" persons. The complex will be for persons 55+ and the amount of rent they pay will depend upon their total income.

In other words, it is not going to be a complex for Section 8 families. Please get your facts straight before making assumptions and creating rumors.

The complex will be similar to St.Patrick's Apartments in that the persons living there will be seniors on fixed income. A retirement community for persons who cannot afford the costs of private facilities such as St.Catherine.

I can understand why no one would want "public housing projects" , but why would you object to seniors having an affordable, safe place to live.
Nikki McMillan

Florissant, MO

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#8
Nov 5, 2012
 
Wrong Info wrote:
<quoted text>
The property is not for "low income" persons. The complex will be for persons 55+ and the amount of rent they pay will depend upon their total income.
In other words, it is not going to be a complex for Section 8 families. Please get your facts straight before making assumptions and creating rumors.
The complex will be similar to St.Patrick's Apartments in that the persons living there will be seniors on fixed income. A retirement community for persons who cannot afford the costs of private facilities such as St.Catherine.
I can understand why no one would want "public housing projects" , but why would you object to seniors having an affordable, safe place to live.
The same subject is on another thread with the same misinformation. I cannot understand why people don't get all the facts or at least the true facts before they begin complaining. The project is NOT certified as Section 8. It will NOT have single mothers with kids (as some have claimed) but it probably will have some nonwhite residents. Which seems to be the real objection for some posters.

It is fine to have an opinion about minorities, subsidized housing, how your taxes are spent and what have you. If there is housing/residents in your area that are creating problems you definitely should bring it to the attention of other citizens and the authorities But please be responsible enough to post factual information and not prejudicial assumptions.
Wrong Info

Florissant, MO

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#10
Nov 6, 2012
 
hardhead wrote:
do you realize how many nonwhite grandparents are raising future little hoodlums.sec. 8 breeds this.
Once again, there are not going to be any children living in the complex if it does get built.It is strictly for seniors who cannot afford places like Delmar Gardens which happens to be $3,000 and up a month. Private housing for seniors is extremely expensive, even the "lower end' if it can be called that is $1200 or more a month. I know one elderly woman who only gets $829 monthly SS benefits.

Why do some people always want to start criticizing something before it has even come into existence? Maybe negativity is something they thrive on, it sure is a mystery to me. The problem is not the developments, the problem is the city's (any city) lack of controlling such places. And then, like someone said, the minute they try the law suit card discrimination card gets played.
jeffreydennis

Saint Louis, MO

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#11
Nov 6, 2012
 
Nikki McMillan wrote:
<quoted text>
The same subject is on another thread with the same misinformation. I cannot understand why people don't get all the facts or at least the true facts before they begin complaining....
Really? You can't understand it? Then let me help. Most people are idiots and wouldn't know a fact if it bit them squarely in the posterior.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

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#12
Nov 7, 2012
 
Wrong Info, Nikki McMillan, let me post factual information with true facts you may also verify. www.mhdc.com . The project of discussion is (#13-013) with application request under category
of financing -(9% LIHTC / MHDC Permanent Financing). Low Income Housing Tax Credits. The public hearing was October 31 at 6:00 PM for Round 1 funding request for 2013. You may review the NOFA which states availability of funds $13.4 million Federal money matched with $13.4 million of state money.

www.huduser.org ,(LIHTC) definition; “A tax incentive intended to increase the availability of low-income housing. Program provides an income tax credit to owners of newly constructed our substantially rehabilitated low income Rental Housing projects”. Quote

(Federal Register October 5 2012), schedule B, Fair Market Rents 2013, St. Louis, 2 bedroom housing
Is $830 per month. According to the application request submitted by the owner his rents are established at $465 to $495 per month identified as new construction for elderly.

MHDC (Elderly or Senior Housing) definition; “housing where (1), all units in the property are restricted for occupancy by persons 62 years of age or older or (2), at least 80% of the units in each building are restricted for occupancy by Households where at least one Household member is 55 years of age or older. The owner has selected to use option (2).

MHDC (Low Income) definition; “Persons or Household with gross Household income below 60% of Area Medium Income adjusted for Household size.

MHDC (2013 Qualified Allocation Plan) 26 pages, A MUST READ, C. Underwriting standards page 8 #9, Subsidy Layering Review; have placed limitations on combining the credits with certain HUD programs. Limitations currently apply to programs under jurisdiction of HUD Office of Housing including but not limited to, Mortgage Insurance, Flexible Subsidy, and project-based Section 8 rental assistance program. As part of the Memorandum of Understanding (MOU), between HUD and MHDC , developments using the Federal LIHTC with these programs are subject to a subsidy layering review by MHDC.

MHDC (exhibit A –Owners Certificate’s of Continuing Program Compliance) official document, item 12;
“an extended low-income housing commitment as described in section 42(h)(6) was in effect, including the requirements under section 42(H)(6)(B)(iv) that an owner cannot refuse to lease a unit in the project to an applicant because the applicant holds a voucher or certificates of eligibility under Section 8 of the United States Housing act of 1937,. Owner has not refused to lease a unit to an applicant based solely on their status as a holder of a Section 8 voucher and the project otherwise meets the provisions, including any special provisions, as outlined in the extended low income housing commitment.
Under MHDC communication documents (rental rates continued)“Section 8 rentals should be underwritten at the current contract rents; otherwise provide an explanation on the 2013 attachment”.

Continued in next section;
Mark B

Florissant, MO

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#13
Nov 7, 2012
 

Judged:

2

1


Continued part two

I understand as individuals we have our own opinions of how we interpret certain words. In this particular case “when applying for subsidy funding (LIHTC) from MHDC or HUD it is REQUIRED to follow their documented provided DEFINITIONS”. Others’ opinions DO NOT MATTER. This property is for low income people. Potential tenants must not exceed a specific SET low income threshold. Rents are fixed at that registered qualified income threshold. Every individual tenet is documented and reported to MHDC. This development is privately owned/managed and is not like St Patrick’s Apartments. Because this project will be using Federal and state funding it automatically is certified to accept Section 8 voucher holders. Because of the nature of this project (MHDC) this development becomes automatically enrolled with all St. Louis Housing Agencies who already have a waiting list to place low-income 55 year old tenants. You may find a list of these agencies on MHDC website, although you must search for IT.

I am on record since 1995 an have OPPOSED any and all additional New Low Income Housing developments wanting to enter in to North St. Louis County on behalf of Property Owners for very good reasons. North St. Louis County has a disproportionate amount of low-income housing in comparison to the rest of St. Louis County. Property owners who have lived here for decades, DO NOT WANT ANY MORE. Mark Behlmann
mjbcinc@aol.com
So You

Florissant, MO

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#14
Nov 7, 2012
 
Mark B wrote:
Continued part two
I understand as individuals we have our own opinions of how we interpret certain words. In this particular case “when applying for subsidy funding (LIHTC) from MHDC or HUD it is REQUIRED to follow their documented provided DEFINITIONS”. Others’ opinions DO NOT MATTER. This property is for low income people. Potential tenants must not exceed a specific SET low income threshold. Rents are fixed at that registered qualified income threshold. Every individual tenet is documented and reported to MHDC. This development is privately owned/managed and is not like St Patrick’s Apartments. Because this project will be using Federal and state funding it automatically is certified to accept Section 8 voucher holders. Because of the nature of this project (MHDC) this development becomes automatically enrolled with all St. Louis Housing Agencies who already have a waiting list to place low-income 55 year old tenants. You may find a list of these agencies on MHDC website, although you must search for IT.
I am on record since 1995 an have OPPOSED any and all additional New Low Income Housing developments wanting to enter in to North St. Louis County on behalf of Property Owners for very good reasons. North St. Louis County has a disproportionate amount of low-income housing in comparison to the rest of St. Louis County. Property owners who have lived here for decades, DO NOT WANT ANY MORE. Mark Behlmann
mjbcinc@aol.com
don't have a problem with seniors not being able to have decent living quarters. You prefer to see older persons who cannot afford private senior living facilities to live in substandard conditions.

I've been a "property owner" for 40+ years and you don't speak for me. And if I were to take a poll of the seniors in my over 65 club I bet they would say you don't speak for them either.
Agree

Florissant, MO

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#15
Nov 7, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Mark B wrote:
Continued part two
I understand as individuals we have our own opinions of how we interpret certain words. In this particular case “when applying for subsidy funding (LIHTC) from MHDC or HUD it is REQUIRED to follow their documented provided DEFINITIONS”. Others’ opinions DO NOT MATTER. This property is for low income people. Potential tenants must not exceed a specific SET low income threshold. Rents are fixed at that registered qualified income threshold. Every individual tenet is documented and reported to MHDC. This development is privately owned/managed and is not like St Patrick’s Apartments. Because this project will be using Federal and state funding it automatically is certified to accept Section 8 voucher holders. Because of the nature of this project (MHDC) this development becomes automatically enrolled with all St. Louis Housing Agencies who already have a waiting list to place low-income 55 year old tenants. You may find a list of these agencies on MHDC website, although you must search for IT.
I am on record since 1995 an have OPPOSED any and all additional New Low Income Housing developments wanting to enter in to North St. Louis County on behalf of Property Owners for very good reasons. North St. Louis County has a disproportionate amount of low-income housing in comparison to the rest of St. Louis County. Property owners who have lived here for decades, DO NOT WANT ANY MORE. Mark Behlmann
mjbcinc@aol.com
Right on! Why does North County need to be the section 8 hub? West and South County stand up!
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

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#17
Nov 8, 2012
 
They have built some of these complexes out here in O'Fallon and they seem to be largely quiet. But it appears that everyone or almost everyone there seems to have at least one car, many of them relatively new nice cars. If you want to see a typical complex, go to Parker and Old Jamestown in Black Jack across from Meyers.

I understand that the government looks at INCOME, but should they not also look at NET WORTH when setting requirements for who gets this goody?

I know that they are the greatest generation and all that and we are to sacrifice our children on their altar, but with the government so bloody broke, how can they justify continued spending like this?$26 million in fed and state subsidies for at most a few dozen seniors?????
Mark B

Florissant, MO

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#18
Nov 8, 2012
 
TTU, yes they look at net worth. There is a published formula that the owner must follow. Each and every tenet must become certified prior to moving in. Each and every tenet must be RE certified each year that they live there, the owner must comply with these regulations. Go to www.mhdc.com and review the Missouri Housing Development Commission Low-Income Housing Tax Credit Program Compliance Monitoring Manual. This Manual is the project owner’s bible. It also discusses in several locations the Section 8 voucher/certificate tenants requirements. This is not simply an affordable housing development for all to participate in. This development is strictly for low-income tenants whose total calculated and registered income does not exceed a set threshold.
TTU

Saint Louis, MO

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#19
Nov 8, 2012
 
Mark B wrote:
TTU, yes they look at net worth. There is a published formula that the owner must follow. Each and every tenet must become certified prior to moving in. Each and every tenet must be RE certified each year that they live there, the owner must comply with these regulations. Go to www.mhdc.com and review the Missouri Housing Development Commission Low-Income Housing Tax Credit Program Compliance Monitoring Manual. This Manual is the project owner’s bible. It also discusses in several locations the Section 8 voucher/certificate tenants requirements. This is not simply an affordable housing development for all to participate in. This development is strictly for low-income tenants whose total calculated and registered income does not exceed a set threshold.
Thanks Mark. Am I to understand that this proposal is for your former development has been been withdrawn due to opposition (yours and another person) voiced at a public forum on that proposal?

Policy-wise, can't low income seniors get regular apartments? Hazelcrest, Kensington, etc., maybe preference on first floor units, without these massive guarantees to developers for new complexes. I understand that Claire McCaskill's hubby has gotten quite wealthy building these developments and certainly McCormick Barron likes them. But does our gov't really have this kind of cash laying around anymore? Along with chopping Big Bird maybe this is an area where we could save some $$$$.

Thanks again.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

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#20
Nov 9, 2012
 
TTU, this location is my former develop. I hold no grudge to whomever the new owner is. They purchased the property at 10¢ on the dollar from Reliance Bank. Reliance Bank had their own severe financial problems starting in 2009 and 2010. R/B according to the Texas Ratio Report (like our personal credit rating system) for banking industry showed them in default. Federal Reserve threat to foreclose on them due to being un-capitalized. R/B strategy was to call their top 24 commercial borrowers (who had prime credit ratings) commercial loans due in 30 days. R/B was forced by the Federal Reserve at the beginning of the economical crisis to generate CASH immediately. Even though my company had a high standing credit rating, in 2010, no St. Louis lending institution was releasing money for commercial loans or retail loans. Subsequently I went down fighting but ultimately had no choice but to turn my project over to Reliance Bank. They actually became the owner of the property early in 2011.

Yes any person can get a apartment depending on their actual income. When looking to use the Federal Gov't. for assistance or subsidy, there are regulations and parameters. There are defined categories that the Federal gov't has established when talking about housing. Two categories in particular, Very Low-Income, and Low-Income when trying to categorize the tenant. There are also several types of categories that property owners can select for a (funding stream) to be used in order to generate housing for those two type of caliber tenants. It is a complex and cumbersome system but has huge financial incentives for the property owner landlord. Personally I believe these type of financial incentives should be limited to nonprofit organizations, NOT for the “for profit businesses”. As a side note -- you do not see the City of Flor. willing to give a TIF (tax increment financing) incentive to Wal-Mart to come into our community to provide cheaper goods for ALL. The city controls the TIF request but MHDC controls this developer's financial incentive request.

This property owner made the decision to withdraw his financial incentive request only (AT THIS TIME). I suspect he will reapply in Round 2 which will be in June of this year. I know MANY people contacted MHDC and the Mayor's office expressing their (opposition) to the developer's request of Low-Income Housing Funding. There is a rumor from the Mayor's office as to why this funding request was pulled.
I take no personal individual credit for anything, I do believe many people spoke and they were heard this time. I believe the Mayor wishes to do a video, with the building that I built at that location, while it is being demolished. In his mind this video would become a testament to his progressive thinking for the good of the city. In reality he is very VINDICTIVE and believes demolishing the building I built, would be a slap in my face. My question to the city resident owners, is why would he (SELL OUT) the city residents SUPPORTING a New Low-Income Housing Apartment Development? He SUPPORTED this in writing. Thank you Mark Behlmann
Question

Florissant, MO

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#21
Nov 9, 2012
 
Just curious. Would this be the property on New Florissant past Steak n Shake and Woodridge Apartments? It says Golden Management run by Steve Goldberg of Ladue.
Mark B

Florissant, MO

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#22
Nov 9, 2012
 
Question wrote:
Just curious. Would this be the property on New Florissant past Steak n Shake and Woodridge Apartments? It says Golden Management run by Steve Goldberg of Ladue.
YES
Fac ts

Saint Charles, MO

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#23
Nov 11, 2012
 
People in North County were not racist 50 years ago. South St.Louis and West County were not as kind as we have been. There was little to no objection to minorities moving North while they were still burning cross's in South St. Louis. I worked with guys from South St.Louis and was told this in 1964.
We allowed section 8 housing in Black Jact first, with a little objection. It wasn't until the late 90's that community leaders realized that we were getting a very large percentage of section 8 while South and West were not.
North County Inc, Chamber of Commerce and some Community leaders, including Mark, got it fixed.
It was to late. If the low income houseing would have been distributed evenly across the entire metropoliton area.
There would have been a much better chance for the entire area to be a healthy, diverse community.

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