Failure to Obtain Trash

Posted in the Florissant Forum

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Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#1 Feb 9, 2011
We used to have several options for trash service, now the corporation of Florissant MO in regulating commerce, has decided it best for the corporation to allow only one company to pick up trash. So what, no big deal...STOP..., now my service sucks, they pick up when they want or not, so I told them to go away. Now I get threating letters from the trash company and have received some tickets requesting me to come to court. I was told by a prosecuting attorney of another municipality that Florissant has a warrant for my arrest for Failure to Obtain Trash. This is stupid and a waste of time. Floirssant hasn't really harmed me yet, when they do, we will battle, although I have noticed them, they don't know I'm not a person, they think my name is spelled in capital letters. LMAO most of you reading this have no clue of what that last sentance means and the power it yeilds!
Alice

Florissant, MO

#2 Feb 9, 2011
Fathercb wrote:
We used to have several options for trash service, now the corporation of Florissant MO in regulating commerce, has decided it best for the corporation to allow only one company to pick up trash. So what, no big deal...STOP..., now my service sucks, they pick up when they want or not, so I told them to go away. Now I get threating letters from the trash company and have received some tickets requesting me to come to court. I was told by a prosecuting attorney of another municipality that Florissant has a warrant for my arrest for Failure to Obtain Trash. This is stupid and a waste of time. Floirssant hasn't really harmed me yet, when they do, we will battle, although I have noticed them, they don't know I'm not a person, they think my name is spelled in capital letters. LMAO most of you reading this have no clue of what that last sentance means and the power it yeilds!
So where exactly are you dumping your garbage? I'm not sold on meridian either, but it's currently the law.
I had a friend of mine who was complaining recently that he should be able to only have a monthly pickup due to his small amount of garbage.
Now you might say that's great, why should you have to pay for more than you need? what about the jenky neighbors with the 3 kids in diapers who want to pay less too? When we have rats and diseased animals and birds all about and neighbors with a mound of last weeks stinky garbage in the middle of August what then?

Going with a single company allows the city to better monitor who doesn't have trash service. Pay through the nose for a commercial dumpster, only to find it completely full of somebody's trash all the time and see how that goes. Drive down Mo Bottom or just about any country road and look at the bags and bags of peoples trash illegally dumped because they won't pay for trash pick up.
I know people who live out in the sticks who burn everything that's burnable, recycle the glass and metal. It's an age old solution but whats that doing to the environment?

Pay your frickin trash bill already!

Or at least leave your name and address under that pile of garbage you illegally dumped. And remember one big pile is better than two small piles...Kid, whatcha in for ? Littering he replied. And everybody moved away from him on the bench, sorry couldn't resist
Conrad Spiracy

Pevely, MO

#3 Feb 10, 2011
Fathercb wrote:
We used to have several options for trash service, now the corporation of Florissant MO in regulating commerce, has decided it best for the corporation to allow only one company to pick up trash. So what, no big deal...STOP..., now my service sucks, they pick up when they want or not, so I told them to go away. Now I get threating letters from the trash company and have received some tickets requesting me to come to court. I was told by a prosecuting attorney of another municipality that Florissant has a warrant for my arrest for Failure to Obtain Trash. This is stupid and a waste of time. Floirssant hasn't really harmed me yet, when they do, we will battle, although I have noticed them, they don't know I'm not a person, they think my name is spelled in capital letters. LMAO most of you reading this have no clue of what that last sentance means and the power it yeilds!
As the population grows larger and taxes the resources of the planet the need to recycle and conserve resources will grow with the population. It's some fairly simple science and math.

It just makes more sense economically to do some things with a coordinated effort rather than have everyone doing their own thing.
You don't have a choice in which sewer company you use.
You utility choices are limited.
You pay for police and fire protection without any choice in the matter.
You pay for roads.

Sure, there are fewer choices and less freedom in a shrinking world. When you are in a space by yourself the rules are pretty lax but after one person enters the picture the rules change drastically and as more and more people enter the picture more rules become needed.
It's just that simple.
The wild west didn't last forever either. You can't just "homestead" a piece of land anymore.
The rules changed.

No one is out to get YOU.
Everyone is just like you, they are completely absorbed by their own existence. When pressures arise, some of us eventually see past our own egocentric world and recognize the need to make some rules to protect the good of all or create a more viable "society".

It's not "creeping socialism".
There is no conspiracy by shadowy figures in "the government".
It is just the response of people and their society to the changing world.
Get use to it.
Fathercb

Saint Louis, MO

#4 Feb 10, 2011
So Conrad, who is going to make these rules, you. Actually, I don't care who makes the rules, as long as the rules abide by the "Rules of Law".

I don't know about any conspiracy, but I do know when my rights are being violated. Some people allow it and don't care, but when you allow your rights to be violated, it does make it harder for me. Its harder for me because when you let your rights get trampled on by someone, they tend to believe they can do it to me. So what do we do?

Well, I believe that what we do is come out of our shells, don't be absorbed in your own existence, I'm not. Know your rights, don't let them be trampled on. We have legislators that make our laws, we have a judicial system to rule on them. We don't need corporations such as Florissant telling us what we can and cannot do.

There is a thing called "Due Process", I would encourage you to check this out. I would also encourage you to understand all of your rights, and not to give them up to anyone, but rather take a stand and help keep us this land free.
Conrad Spiracy

Pevely, MO

#5 Feb 10, 2011
Fathercb wrote:
So Conrad, who is going to make these rules, you. Actually, I don't care who makes the rules, as long as the rules abide by the "Rules of Law".
I don't know about any conspiracy, but I do know when my rights are being violated. Some people allow it and don't care, but when you allow your rights to be violated, it does make it harder for me. Its harder for me because when you let your rights get trampled on by someone, they tend to believe they can do it to me. So what do we do?
Well, I believe that what we do is come out of our shells, don't be absorbed in your own existence, I'm not. Know your rights, don't let them be trampled on. We have legislators that make our laws, we have a judicial system to rule on them. We don't need corporations such as Florissant telling us what we can and cannot do.
There is a thing called "Due Process", I would encourage you to check this out. I would also encourage you to understand all of your rights, and not to give them up to anyone, but rather take a stand and help keep us this land free.
Fathercb wrote:
So Conrad, who is going to make these rules, you. Actually, I don't care who makes the rules, as long as the rules abide by the "Rules of Law".
First you are concerned about if "I" am making the rules and then you say you don't care who makes the rules. But you want to be sure that "rules abide by the "Rules of Law"".

That is a pretty strange thought process.

The rules of law are man made and so are rights. They change constantly. Slavery went away despite the fact that the Bible (God) approves of it. So it was a man made rule. It seems then that there is no "higher authority" and that humans create rules or laws to manage problems within a social structure.

The real issue seems to be whether a rule is as fair as possible to all or if it strongly favors one over another. That is the real issue, having laws written with special interests in mind.

One could argue that the single hauler rule provides unfair benefit to a "special interest", namely the trash hauler.
If things were done right, the trash hauling contract should have been awarded to the best bid.

I know my trash service did not change much other than I pay a lot less now and I don't see near as many trash trucks on my street. Plus I now have curbside recycling which is a huge benefit for me since I care about recycling due to my understanding of natural resources and consumption.

I know the constitution quite well.
The difference between you and me is I can see beyond the few facts lying under my nose at any given point and grasp the greater context of the information and tie to to the realities of society and the world.

No one is trampling your right by deciding a single hauler system is better than individual contracts. It is a social convention to resolve a broader problem. Just like building roads,or having an army, or having police and fire protection, or having a sewage system. There is that "common good" that keeps coming up and if you can't get your head around the concept I can see why you might freak out over any sort of change.
Fathercb

United States

#6 Feb 10, 2011
Wow Conrad, you almost leave me speechless. Think about what you say. First, let me say I believe in God, don't know if you do, but I don't really want to get into that debate. Secondly, if you believe your rights are given to you by man, then man can take them away, go for it. You may know the constitution but your thought process convinces me that you do not understand it. Lastly, I said I don't care who makes the rules as long as those rules conform to the rule of law, seems like a pretty simple thought process.

You go on though, do what you are told for the benefit of whomever you believe needs it. I myself believe that our rights come from our Creator, enumerated in the Constitution. I believe in due process and the rule of law. My forefathers died and gave up their lives so that I may be free. Good luck out there!
Fathercb

United States

#7 Feb 10, 2011
Alice, I think you missed the point entirely. First of all, its no ones business what I do with my trash. The only time it would become your business or some others business is if I was creating harm to them.
You seem to suppose that because I don't give up any of my rights allowing the Government to tell me what I have to do or who I contract with that I am dumping trash illegally. Not a logical conclusion and a dangerous one. I could care less if the corporation of Florissant wants to know if I have trash service. To many of our rights people give away because they are scared.

Yes Alice, I believe that anyone should be able to negotiate commerce and contract with anyone they want. Your friend should be able to pay less for his service if he/she is able to and can work out a deal with the trash service, and how is that possibly your business or mine.

You are incorrect that this is law. Laws go through the house and the senate, there is a process for law making, the process is enumerated in the Constitution. If we didn't have this process then any corporation, such as Florissant, could pass any rule or ordinance telling human beings what they can or can not do. An ordinance is not law, it is only evidence that a law exist.

In this paragraph I am going to give you some information that you most likely will not understand, but here it is anyway. You only have to obey an ordinance if it applies to you. I am sure that this ordinance applies to only a "person" under statute. A "Person" under this statute is in fact a legal entity (a business, corporation and the like), not a human being". So it only applies to me if I believe it does. If you read statute a "person" is defined several ways, applicable to this, "person" is defined as such: Person, includes corporations. What this doesn't mean Alice is that any thing else is included. What this does mean is that Hardees cannot tell you what to do either.

Alice, did you know that in reality when the grass police come around and tell you that your grass is to high, and threaten harm to you, they just committed a crime, its called an illegal search. So maybe your grass needs cut, cut it, but if I haven't harmed you, you have no claim to remedy.

So a body of people come together and start making rules for us to live by, do we naturally obey? There was a time in Germany when they tried this, it didn't really work out. Our rights come from our Creator and they are enumerated in the Constitution. Many people have given up much for you and I to enjoy our liberties.

I'm not scared Alice, and if you find my trash in an alley or a ditch and I have harmed you, take me to court because you deserve remedy and I should pay. Otherwise, leave me alone and to my liberties.
the devil made me do it

Saint Charles, MO

#8 Feb 10, 2011
the city should not tell you who you have to use for trash or any other service for that matter as long as the job gets done.if i can get it done cheaper then i should have that right. maybe somebody is getting kickbacks i wonder
Simple Solution

Saint Louis, MO

#9 Feb 10, 2011
the devil made me do it wrote:
the city should not tell you who you have to use for trash or any other service for that matter as long as the job gets done.if i can get it done cheaper then i should have that right. maybe somebody is getting kickbacks i wonder
I think you are right.
The solution is simple.
Put toll booths and a weigh station at the ends of all streets.
Then charge the vehicles that enter by the pound to drive on the street.
That way the trash trucks would have to tack the cots onto the trash service.
Let every street be paid for by the people that drive on it.
The more traffic you get, the nicer the street you have.
It's perfect!
It is a free market solution!
Any one see any problem with the idea?
the devil made me do it

Saint Charles, MO

#10 Feb 10, 2011
isnt that what they do now, the more tax you pay the more the city wastes
Alice

Florissant, MO

#11 Feb 10, 2011
father,

First off you are a pompous blowhard. Who are you to assume what I can or cannot 'understand'?
Pardon, I misspoke yes it's an 'ordinance'.

In a civil society, people do not pick and choose the laws and ordinances they wish to obey.
So we all go with your 'thinking' and do as we please. Junk cars in the front yard, just grow your grass so tall you can't see them. Bass thumping ghetto music blaring out of every idiots car all hours of the day, dilapidated homes, vermin eating those diapers, because hey I'm not going to pay to have my garbage picked up from my curb? They're just ordinances right?
You say, for example, that you not cutting your grass isn't harming your neighbors. So when your knee high mosquito infested yard contributes to lower property values that isn't harmful.

I've spoke to some local business owners with dumpsters who prior to the ordinance just took their garbage from home to work every day.
Now this is a logical cause for exemption and I've encouraged them to argue their qualification for such from the city.
That garbage of yours is going somewhere. In all your conspiracy laden nonsense you never have offered your great solution to allow you an exemption from this ordinance, you simply say it's no ones business what happens to my garbage and you won't pay..

Maybe instead of pretending to be a lawyer try and contribute a solution to this 'evil' ordinance causing us so much harm.

Maybe exercise some of those liberties and consider leaving Florissant, nobody has imprisoned you here.
You choose to live here and with that choice you are expected to obey the 'rules' like everyone else. Anything less is anarchy.
You teabaggers are always saying you're going to take this country in a new direction. Would you prefer the old west,third world,or just revolution?

We as citizens have an option to change the things we disagree with as a majority, it's called a voting booth! You'll have plenty of time to consider your ballot choices when you are in the clink serving your time. Be sure to ask that they put your name on your orange jumpsuit in lowercase letters. Oh that's right, they'll just put a lien on your home instead.
Might I suggest a shack somewhere deep in Montana, sounds perfect for you. You can do as you wish with your garbage, let your grass grow as tall as you want, and spare anyone else the agony of being your neighbor.

Personally I'm mostly pleased with the current system. Pro's outweigh the cons.
Less noise, pollution and damage to our streets from multiple trucks every day, single stream recycle. I'm getting better service than my last carrier, and paying less too.
Oh, and the fact that it just drives you teabaggers insane is just another added bonus.
Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#12 Feb 11, 2011
Alice, first of all Im glad I got your dander up! Now that your pumped maybe you"ll settle down a bit while I review.

In a civil society we have a Constitution, bill of rights and legislators that make laws. I would refer you to the Missouri Constitution Article III Section 21 under Legislative Proceedings it clearly defines our process for enacting laws. We should obey laws.

Now that you have read the Section 21 and you understand legislative proceedings it should be clear to you that ordinances are not laws.

I would refer you to RSMo 71.010 Concerning Ordinances, "Municipal corporations of this state (Alice, notice the word corporation)
whether under general or special charter, and having authority (Alice, notice it says having authority) to pass ordinances regulating subjects, matters and things upon which there is a general law of the state, unless otherwise prescribed or authorized by some special provision of its charter, shall confine and restrict its jurisdiction and the passage of its ordinances to and in conformity with the state law upon the same subject."

Alice there is a lot to chew on in the above paragraph. I could explain this to you in detail but you wouldn't read it anyway. Lets just take the easy part...Florissant is a corporation, no different than Hardees, the short of that, I don't do what Hardess tells me to do either. Another point you mentioned, you declared yourself a citizen (I'm supposing of Florissant), if thats the case maybe you do have to obey ordinances. I don't think you truly understand the law, and the consequences of the rights you so easily surrender.

You keep referring to harm created by another to another. Alice, I agree, I do not disagree. If I harm you, seek remedy that dear is what real law is all about. If I harm you, you should be able to seek and receive remedy. Like I said and you have not explained, where ever my garbage is going it truly is none of your business, just because your scared about what I might do with it... well Im sorry your scared, but you can't go around making people do things just because your scared, when others have a right to liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Personally, I don't vote, thats neither here nor there, but I can tell you this, there is an over abundance Law, Case Law and Rulings that support the fact that just because a bunch of people get together and declare this or that, doesn't make it law, and I do not have to obey.

As far as moving, I think all the people that believe they can go around telling me what I can and cannot do, their the ones that ought to move and hopefully to another country. For myself Alice, I choose to stay and protect the rights and liberties of my family, my friends and Alice!
Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#13 Feb 11, 2011
Alice, I forgot to explain my exemption to the ordinance. Truly I did, you just did not catch it. All of what I am going to say is in accordance with Law.

I am not a person, I am a sovereign a human being! I have God given rights enumerated in the Constitution. I do not contract with the Corporation of Florissant, I am not a citizen of Florissant, I am not a resident of Florissant, nor do I wish to be any of those things. I am free a man of the land. I live by the Rule of Law.

Alice, according to Missouri Statutes and pertaining to our discussion you have no Idea what a "Person" is. If you did you would not declare yourself to be one either!
CSM1

Saint Louis, MO

#14 Feb 11, 2011
Alice,Alice,Alice,do you not see that you are dealing with an immature child like mentality here? This Father person is probably in their first hour or two toward becoming a Paralegal at some half baked college. This person probably has a pin head professor with a whole bag of progressive ideas. This person is reading,as they type, from their brand new text book, and feels they have power in their possession,a whole new compilation of words,not unlike the proverbial jail house lawyer. Your missive was point on, and done in a very concise and rational manner,please don't allow this person to cause you angst. Some things I take issue with you though. I'm a so called Teabagger and I'm certainly nothing like this Father person,I feel I'm much more aligned with you and like persons. Second. I've been to the beautiful state of Montana and wouldn't wish this type on those people and their great state. Better served had you asked this person to take up residence in Booger Holler down in the Ozarks,would certainly fit in with that Genre.
Alice wrote:
father,
First off you are a pompous blowhard. Who are you to assume what I can or cannot 'understand'?
Pardon, I misspoke yes it's an 'ordinance'.
In a civil society, people do not pick and choose the laws and ordinances they wish to obey.
So we all go with your 'thinking' and do as we please. Junk cars in the front yard, just grow your grass so tall you can't see them. Bass thumping ghetto music blaring out of every idiots car all hours of the day, dilapidated homes, vermin eating those diapers, because hey I'm not going to pay to have my garbage picked up from my curb? They're just ordinances right?
You say, for example, that you not cutting your grass isn't harming your neighbors. So when your knee high mosquito infested yard contributes to lower property values that isn't harmful.
I've spoke to some local business owners with dumpsters who prior to the ordinance just took their garbage from home to work every day.
Now this is a logical cause for exemption and I've encouraged them to argue their qualification for such from the city.
That garbage of yours is going somewhere. In all your conspiracy laden nonsense you never have offered your great solution to allow you an exemption from this ordinance, you simply say it's no ones business what happens to my garbage and you won't pay..
Maybe instead of pretending to be a lawyer try and contribute a solution to this 'evil' ordinance causing us so much harm.
Maybe exercise some of those liberties and consider leaving Florissant, nobody has imprisoned you here.
You choose to live here and with that choice you are expected to obey the 'rules' like everyone else. Anything less is anarchy.
You teabaggers are always saying you're going to take this country in a new direction. Would you prefer the old west,third world,or just revolution?
We as citizens have an option to change the things we disagree with as a majority, it's called a voting booth! You'll have plenty of time to consider your ballot choices when you are in the clink serving your time. Be sure to ask that they put your name on your orange jumpsuit in lowercase letters. Oh that's right, they'll just put a lien on your home instead.
Might I suggest a shack somewhere deep in Montana, sounds perfect for you. You can do as you wish with your garbage, let your grass grow as tall as you want, and spare anyone else the agony of being your neighbor.
Personally I'm mostly pleased with the current system. Pro's outweigh the cons.
Less noise, pollution and damage to our streets from multiple trucks every day, single stream recycle. I'm getting better service than my last carrier, and paying less too.
Oh, and the fact that it just drives you teabaggers insane is just another added bonus.
Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#15 Feb 11, 2011
CSM1, I'll defend your rights too!

Actually, I'm old, out of school for many years. My school books are: Constitution for the United States, Uniform Commercial Code, Revised Missouri Statutes, Code of Civil Procedure, Code of Criminal Procedure, Rules of Court, Case Law and other similar legal publications. Most of these are on-line and available for your review.

I just happen to know we are a Republic and not a Democracy!

Thanks for your input and I wish you well!
Father FM

Saint Louis, MO

#16 Feb 11, 2011
Fathercb wrote:
Alice, I forgot to explain my exemption to the ordinance. Truly I did, you just did not catch it. All of what I am going to say is in accordance with Law.
I am not a person, I am a sovereign a human being! I have God given rights enumerated in the Constitution. I do not contract with the Corporation of Florissant, I am not a citizen of Florissant, I am not a resident of Florissant, nor do I wish to be any of those things. I am free a man of the land. I live by the Rule of Law.
Alice, according to Missouri Statutes and pertaining to our discussion you have no Idea what a "Person" is. If you did you would not declare yourself to be one either!
You are not a person?
You are a sovereign a human being?

I think you should be aware that God gives you breath and talents and intelligence (in whatever proportion he sees fit of course) but your rights are given to you by the laws of man.
To think otherwise is pure ignorance of the realities of the world.
If rights were God given, all people would have the same rights everywhere on the good Earth created by God.

You have obviously developed some sort of fixation on the definition of the word "person" due to something you read somewhere.

The fact that you are willing to throw all rational logic aside in favor of your rants based on your fixation would seem to indicate "you don't have both oars in the water" to coin an old phrase.

Try a different radio band, CB doesn't take in the range of the FM or AM bands or even a HAM Radio. Maybe with a greater range you can get past your own small world.
Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#17 Feb 11, 2011
Father FM,

Nope, I am not a "Person" as defined by Statute. A "Person", as defined by Statute, and pertaining to our discussion, is a legal entity, a corporation, business and the like. An individual by Statute, again pertaining to our discussion is a part of a business, corporation and the like. The only way a corporation such as Florissant gains authority over human being, is through a person or an individual under Statute.

You may not understand, you may not agree, but never the less, it doesn't change the fact that Sovereigns created this Country and Sovereigns exist. All of this is supported not by my belief, but by law.

To be truthful, I do understand the emotions, feelings and thoughts of the others on here. I didn't discover who I really was until I started studying our countries history, our foundations and most of all our laws. Laws put into place by our founders to protect our rights!
Fathercb

Florissant, MO

#18 Feb 11, 2011
Father FM,

Oh and btw, Your just outright wrong about God, about Rights! Not even going to discuss that with you!
Pale Dago

Saint Louis, MO

#19 Feb 11, 2011
Well I'll be damn. Seems we have a potential here to have an insightful,intelligent discourse for a change,that has been sorely lacking on Topix for a very long time. Let the good times roll.
Father FM

Saint Louis, MO

#20 Feb 11, 2011
Fathercb wrote:
Father FM,
Oh and btw, Your just outright wrong about God, about Rights! Not even going to discuss that with you!
You won't discuss it because you know you have no real support for your position other than "faith".

Go read the Bible. Mine is sitting next to my desk and I also have a digital copy on my computer.

The only "rights" you might be able to "interpret" are possibly the right to kill or the right to conquer or maybe to "smite".
If God granted "rights" like those provided by U.S. constitution and laws, it would have been good evidence if God provided some srot of "real time" punishment for violating those "given" rights.

I know you are fixated on this concept of a corporation being a "person" and that YOU are not a "person". That has nothing to do with God. That is the law of men. The rights you claim are being violated are not "rights' provided by God.

The only unalienable right God promises to us in scripture is "free will." Other unalienable rights we usually mention can be taken away by men. They can be taken against one's will and can even be taken from a person serving God. There are numerous examples of men of God losing their rights we consider unalienable such as life, liberty, pursuit of happiness as well as property.

You can make the case that "Thou shalt not steal" is a "right" in that it allows you to possess property. But that would be an interpretation of a "commandment". There are numerous other passages in scripture that deal with "possession of property" in many different ways.

The only thing that protects you is yourself and the laws and protections provided by the society in which you live. Any "rights" are social norms written by people to protect people.

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