Florence teacher not guilty

Mar 7, 2008 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Daily News

“He said at the beginning of the year, don't be afraid to ask, I didn't do anything wrong, I just asked a question.”

FLORENCE, Wis. - Jurors in the trial of Florence teacher Nick Baumgart found him not guilty of felony child abuse after a second day of testimony and 90 minutes of deliberation late Thursday afternoon. via The Daily News

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bear

United States

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#1
Mar 8, 2008
 
brings back memorys of my time in school 30 years ago. I did everything not to go because I was terified of the teachers. I enlisted in the marines so I could get away from school. Now what happens when students know they can be asulted by teachers without consequences? Retaliation!! Wait and see.

Since: Jan 08

Green Bay, WI

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#2
Mar 8, 2008
 
To have been "privy" to the facts of this case, with no regard for my own time as a student.....I would say to you that you should be careful not to judge that from which you know little or nothing about.

I attended the trial, saw the evidence and the conclusion is just....Not Guilty.

Would you rather a school whereby the students were in control? Much like it is currently here at the school where this took place? Did you know that this "kid" made a comment prior to this incident to the affect, "You cannot tell me to be quiet, I don't have to listen to you..."

Are you aware that this kid begged for many of the detentions he received, did not appear for these detentions, then would tear up the slips right in front of the teacher issuing them? This kid has a disciplinary record that renders the teachers the victims in this case.

Are you aware that the marks on this kid's neck were not consistent with his version of events and that jury members when deliberating did a actual "stage" of the events from both versions, concluding that the Teacher in this case had not done anything injurous to this student?

This "mind-set" like yours is what is creating classrooms where the kids who wish to learn cannot because of some very disturbed child lashing out.

The parent is to blame for this and she should be ashamed that a discipline situation that was created by her son ended up in a Court Room. This case will set a precedence for any case to follow....so, careful not to send your unruly child to school and expect everyone there to learn to "put up with it".

Shame....shame......
bear

United States

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#3
Mar 13, 2008
 
to shame shame you miss the point if a student after this case feels thy have no protection in the class room, why should they not feel they have the right to self defense. It takes two to tangle, if a teacher can not controll his class he has no buisness in yhe class room. What happens now if a problem student comes back and shoots the place up. will you aplaud like you did in the courtroom. Consider that teachers are charged with looking for evidence of child abuse. How can a teacher do this if they cant control themselves and dont see a proplem with there own actions. Blaiming the parent is a cop out since no one bothered to keep her infornmed. As the prosecuter stated any other courtromm he would have got a conviction, the people of Florence county are differant. Just look at your comment.
Forest Park

Escanaba, MI

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#4
Mar 14, 2008
 
Hey Bear--learn how to spell. Did you go to school at Florence?

The student in question is a know-it-all punk who deserved everything he received. Students like him should get a good kick in the ass out the door. You cannot teach in an environment where the student thinks they can do whatever they please!! Hopefully, someday, you will grow-up and realize the importance of a quality education. Is this fair to the students who actually want to do something with their life?
bear

United States

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#5
Mar 14, 2008
 
So when you lose an argument you belittle the messanger, I guess when you grow up you get to be supperior to a tax paying Florence county resident. I agree with you the student should be expeled, but so should the teacher. you will not get a quality education by using fear and humiliation all you will get is, more problems for society outside the school. Respect must be earned. Since you also question my spelling I guess this makes you a know-it- all punk, and you know what to do.

Since: Jan 08

Green Bay, WI

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#6
Mar 17, 2008
 
Bear.....Firstly, the applaus was actually for the jury as they left the court-room. See, these are the details which are important when making a educated decision....much like I spoke of in my previous post.

I don't know if you've ever visited Florence County or know it's citizens....I do know, from your post, that you believe all that you read in the paper. If you are a adult, I am surprised that given years of experience regarding the media you would not have some pause to question.

There were misquotes representing both sides. I attended the trial and I also read the papers to follow. This is not uncommon for the newspapers in this area who are more concerned with GETTING THE STORY IN THE PAPER than it's accuracy. These Editors and/or reporters have merely a yearning for media and yet many have no higher education....this sets the stage for disasterous news reporting in not only this case but others as well.

The Prosecutor in this case, as is every Prosecutor trying a case, unwilling to expose that the individual is overcharged or should have not been charged to begin with. Afterall, you should know that the Prosecutor works for the State and it is his sole job.....Prosecute cases.

This particular prosecutor did a menial job in trying this case. His arguments were repetative, irrelevant, and conjecture. To blame the jury for his lack of good prosecution is typical behavior as well from one who has LOST a case.

He can make all the excuses he wishes, blame the Florence citizens for their views and beliefs....but in doing this he fails to remember he WAS IN FLORENCE trying a FLORENCE CASE....I could care less of what his county would have done with this.....it's apples and oranges.

Again, unless you were present to hear both sides of the case and see how it was concluded...NOT GUILTY....your opinions are pointless, irrelevant, and quite frankly rather insulting to the citizens of this county. My advice to you is that if you do not like a place, it's people....by all means...don't come to visit....you will not be missed!
tattoomama

Iron Mountain, MI

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#7
Mar 17, 2008
 
Hello is this working, whats goin on?

-youwhat?
YOUWHAT

Iron Mountain, MI

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#8
Mar 17, 2008
 
lets make it fare!!!!

How can you say it was fare in FLORENCE cty. You had two of NICK'S classmates on the JURY, a TEACHERS dad as the FOREMAN of the jury and one lady one the jury who wrote letters in support of NICK. Is this fare? I think not! The students in that classroom did not ask for this. They came to school to get an education. People need to quit looking at doubts created or the person. THey need to look at what this PERSON DID.......actions speak louder than words. He says his actions on that day were taking this kid by the back of the shirt and lifting him out of his seat........what about the kids in the classroom who did not ask to be exposed to this? Now they have to keep dealing with this day after day.

WTH is going on in FLORENCE CTY where a JURY thinks this is acceptable and the TAXES payers in that POOR town should keep goin threw this? They want referenedums, they want this and they want that. You can want in one hand and shit in another. Time to step up and say ENOUGH is ENOUGH. In the past when they wanted us to 'VOTE YES' it was all about the KIDS..........well this time around its all about the KIDS and we want to take the teachers side instead of the innocent kids that were affected that day and that have to keep re-living this UNFORUNATE DAY.

PS Maybe the teacher needs to worry about taking control of himself, before he can worry about a 'so called disruptive class'. Which by the way I heard was all honor roll students!!

THANK-YOU
CONCERNED IN IRON MOUNTAIN

Since: Jan 08

Green Bay, WI

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#9
Mar 18, 2008
 
Dear "Concerned in Iron Mountain",
You have MUCH information regarding the jury that is incorrect. Need I say that I was also present during Jury Selection and since this is a small town, people know one another, etc., the dismissal of jury members for ANYTHING which might "sway" the case was overseen by a Judge from another county.
There were no people on this jury that you speak of. I wonder when I hear what others think, having been present during this, just where this misinformation comes from.
What you heard about the Honor Roll students was incorrect as well. These kids, in this class were some of the worst "discipline issues" in the school. They took this class as a "easy class, easy A" type class. The credible witness for the Prosecutor's side, a High Schooler, made mention of the other classmates as being problems in ALL their classes.
This isn't about one incident mind you. This "victim" on this day has a seriously thick file showing detention, removal, detention, detention, removal, suspension, etc., just in one year!! This student also did what is known as a "sit down strike" (the maneuver young kids use when you try to move them and they go limp), hence the dragging. The actions of this student on this day as well as on day preceding this were consistently DEFIANT. A few student witness' themselves stated that he was purposefully causing disruption and they were having difficulty hearing the important instructions for a field trip the following day. This particular student, due to grades and behaviors was not going to be going on this field trip......he became disruptive, asking questions that didn't pertain to this class and/or school in general.
Having gone to Florence's schools myself....and some time ago.....I recall a paddle with holes in it...."Cherry paddle" as it was known....hung right next to the blackboard. It served as a reminder of good behavior. This paddle, as I recall, was never used....but the fact that it was there, waiting.....was enough back "in the day".
Children today are "coddled" by parents and the outside world. Discipline is non-existent and it is not uncommon to see teens on the streets, when confronted by a adult for bad behaviors, etc., come back with expletives that I wouldn't think of using myself at my age now!
Being a teacher is the hardest job in today's world that can ever be done. Many of these children come to school with issues that far exceed "having a bad day". Alcoholism, drug abuse, child abuse, poverty, lack of guidance due to parents working and/or one parent absent from the home, peer pressure which is greater now than ever before, etc., are daily challenges for teachers in classrooms. These issues are not reserved solely for Florence County Schools...these issues are world-wide.
Kids today are also far more violent when confronted. I am uncertain the cause of this and I won't even begin to discuss whether it's TV, lack of parental control, etc.,
Take into consideration this student with a discipline record that far exceeds "having a bad year".....his complete lack of respect for authority, "You cannot make me do ANYTHING, I don't have to be quiet.", his disruptions while other students were getting information for a trip the following day, one he would not be going on, his "sit down strike" when the back of his shirt was first grabbed.....the answer was quite simple and he's lucky this teacher didn't have a "hair trigger temper" or it would have been much worse.
The marks on this boys neck were NOT consistent,(the jury did a actual "scene" playout whereby they drug one jury member across the floor, etc.,) with the redness that appeared on this student's neck.....It is the paramount reason that this teacher was found NOT GUILTY. The witness' for the Prosectuion were all non-credible since their statements written, Preliminary Hearing statements on the stand, and testimony at the trial were all inconsistent.
FOSHIZLYDIZZYLIZ ZY

Iron Mountain, MI

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#10
Mar 18, 2008
 
You sound like a old school teacher!
Where did you get all that information on those kids? Isnt that private information? uumm I find it funny we are listening to a teacher.........why not the 2 teachers kids that were in the class that day. Where they troubled? Are there parents not doing there job? UUMM seems to me there are facts and excuses being mixed up here.
Maybe the kids should start a "SIT-DOWN" protest like the teachers taught them to do a few years ago when another teacher was in the spotlight..........WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. The teachers asked afew years ago for the kids to have there voice/opinion heard...now its happening and we will strike them for it? Red marks are considered abuse...LOOK IT UP! I hope your not a TEACHER, if you are your bias. I think this school can only take so many black marks before everyone wants to leave. What do you think?
SPECIAL NEEDS HELP

Iron Mountain, MI

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#11
Mar 18, 2008
 
AS FAR AS YOUR CHERRY PADDLE WELCOME TO THE 20TH CENTURY........MAYBE BACK IN YOUR DAY YOU MAY HAVE GOTTEN THE PADDLE BUT NOW DAYS IT IS CHILD ABUSE! IF THE CHILD WAS ASKED TO GO TO THE OFFICE ON ONE DAY AND DOES, THEN ON DAY 2 HE WAS FORCEFULLY REMOVED BY THE TEACHER INSTEAD OF CONTACTING THE OFFICE TO TAKE CARE OF THE MATTER. IF YOU READ THE TEACHERS CONTRACT HE FAILED TO NOTIFY ANYONE OF THE REMOVAL OF THIS STUDENT THERE FOR HE BROKE THE CONTRACT AND SHOULD NOT BE REINSTATED.WHAT ARE WE TEACHING OUR CHILDREN THAT ABUSE AND LYING IS OK. THIS MUST BE NEW CIRCULUM FOR A NEW CLASS FOR KIDS TO TAKE CLASS 101 HOW TO LIE AND ABUSE EACH OTHER. AFTER WITNESSING WHAT THOSE STUDENTS SAW THAT DAY IM SURE EVERYONE OF THEM WOULD PASS WITH FLYING COLORS. YOU SAID THAT THERE IS SO MUCH TO BLAME ON EVERYTHING ELSE BUT WHO IS THE ADULT IN THIS SITUATION. PLUS WHO WOULD RISK 19 YEARS OF TEACHING/LIVELYHOOD ON THE LINE FOR A KID THAT YOU CLAIM IS DISRUPTIVE.
WHERES JERRY GERALD WHEN WE NEED HIM THE MOST?
HOPEFULLY AT THE MEETING ON MAY 15TH. WOULD'NT YOU BE SUPRISED TO SEE HIS FACE. MISS YOU GER
RATPACKRULES

Iron Mountain, MI

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#12
Mar 18, 2008
 
ENOUGH IS ENOUGH

HEY TEACHERS LEAVE THOSE KIDS ALONE

ROCK ON
TrUeCoLoRs

Milwaukee, WI

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#13
Mar 19, 2008
 
Hello!

Since: Jan 08

Marion, WI

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#14
Mar 19, 2008
 
I can assure you I am no Teacher, not present nor retired.

I am having problems relating to your posts, Foshizl and Special Needs as your posts contain embellishment of circumstances and to me that means there isn't much to your original argument.

You have taken things that I have stated out of context and then added embellishment to these facts so it will be difficult to not repeat what I already stated that you are having difficulty understanding.

It is the opinion of many, teachers included, that the people suffering "abuse" these days are the parents and teachers. When the "government" decided to wade into the personal lives of parents as they raise their children they "micro-managed" this as they do most things.

I believe child abuse is a problem in this country.....I believe, however, that the children who are really in need of help, the one's locked down the basement and starved, etc., are overlooked in this sea of nonsense to investigate a parent who "spanked" their child.

The cherry paddle, which if you used it now...would be considered "abuse"....but, I don't appear to be "scarred" from the experience nor do my siblings or classmates at the time. To the contrary.....we recall, many times with laughter, it's represented meaning. "Spare the rod, spoil the child"......

Do you see those of us....from the "old school" where Hickory sticks, switches of various kinds, paddles, etc., were used to keep us in-line, saturating the news with violent acts committed by these generations? No, but what you do see is children killing their parents, killing one another, killing innocent pedestrians......and why do you suppose this is occurring? What element is missing from the child-hoods of yesteryear to the children of the late 80's, 90's, and today??

The red mark on this student's neck, as I stated, when the jury performed a "scene reinactment"....were not the result of the shirt...the shirt would have not landed on this part of the neck.....The Defense Attorney proved this, and the jury confirmed this with a reinactment.

I will continue on another post as we are limited in number of characters.....to further respond and educate those of you who "seem" to know yet were not present when the evidence and/or testimony was presented.

Since: Jan 08

Marion, WI

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#15
Mar 19, 2008
 
Continued.....

The testimony by those students in this class at the time of this incident that are proven "discipline issues".....had differing testimony each time they told their version. And, like your posts, they embellished the severity of this incident and it's affects.

Applying the law....the statute....and the Collective Bargaining Contract of the Union, this teacher used a type of force which is acceptable. There was no ill-intent by this teacher....if there had been, trust the red mark would have been a "burn" type injury. The standard of the law and the school's own policy were not overstepped by this teacher therefore making it "criminal".

Thankfully, we've a court of law which can resolve issues that lie on the "cusp" of "having gone too far". The fact that this jury given the evidence of this case concluded that he was innocent should serve as a reminder to all of you responding in here that one day you too could be held in question....and you will want the evidence and facts of the case to show your intent.....you would welcome it then but not in this case for some strange reason.

This "over protection" of today's youth....the coddling, giving them all they want and/or desire, not teaching them about consequences and taking responsibility, accountability....is what has the papers and news stations chalk full of stories of violent children.

A lesson can be learned here about many attributes children should but don't possess, it's not that these children do not wish to possess these redeeming qualities....it is that the parents are not applying a standard that will teach them these qualities.

If I had a child and that child ended up in a Court Room regarding a situation of discipline....I would have to be thinking..."Where did I fail that this came to be?" Apparently that is not even a consideration for the posters in here and it's disturbing from the stand-point that NONE of YOU were at the trial to hear the evidence and testimony.

If you have all the facts you can make better choices regarding your opinion...but the willingness, if this case REALLY concerns you as you imply, you would have gone and "gotten a education" yourself by being present at the trial. Hearsay, gossip, innuendo are not FACTS of the case and I suggest you in the future, if you are so passionate about something....you show up.
TrUeCoLoRs

Milwaukee, WI

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#16
Mar 19, 2008
 
I can assure you I am no Teacher, not present nor retired.

HI DRMBOTEANNIE.........What is all this about? I can tell your not a teacher but you seem troubled about this. Share with me sista!

Since: Jan 08

Marion, WI

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#17
Mar 19, 2008
 
This is a case, whereby a teacher is alleged,(found innocent) to have used excessive force in removing a continuously disruptive student from the classroom. He was charged with a Felony...child abuse/recklessly causing harm (to this affect).....despite Wisconsin Statute and the School's own policy; he was well within the standard of forceful removal.

Apparently, there are people out there, some posters in here...who have opinion regarding this case and yet never stepped foot in any of the proceedings to include the trial. Much of the information/accusations they have made in their posts are absolutely false and I challenge them from the standpoint that I attended ALL proceedings for this case.

Quite frankly, this is more about what the REAL FACTS of the case are and in-turn the current "issues" regarding what denotes "abuse" in it's truest sense.

I posted on here following a post...it was my response to the first post regarding this article....and it has snowballed from there. I stand in defense of this case because he was found "NOT GUILTY" and because I know the facts of this case and/or the evidence from appearing.

I won't be continuing the dialog for much longer by responding as I have stated all that I need to state....what these posters choose to do with the information is up to them and I can tell from their "news source" of hearsay, gossip, and cluelessness that my words will be lost.

But, thanks for askin'!
Carebear

Iron Mountain, MI

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#18
Mar 19, 2008
 

Judged:

1

I am concerned about all these issues, example
mental and physical abuse. Lesbians and gays, they
need so much help it isn't even funny.

I am praying for them all.... God save us!!!
Tori

Iron Mountain, MI

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#19
Mar 19, 2008
 
I am so glad Judge Kennedy is running for office
again, I have never seen a better judge. We had
a murder trail in our county and he was wonderful.

Hotheads should not take the law into there own
hands:-)
PEACEONEARTH

Iron Mountain, MI

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#20
Mar 19, 2008
 
This POOR PPOOOORRR school!

What SHOCK and devistation. I pray for all the incident souls involved.

PEACE ON THIS GREAT GREEN EARTH AND MUCH MUCH LOVE FROM ME TO YOU.

HHOOLLAARR BACKKKKK SISTA'S IN THE HOUSE.

ROCK OUT WITH YOUR MOUTH OUT.

LICK

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