Deadly Sweat Lodge Didn't Have Permits

Deadly Sweat Lodge Didn't Have Permits

There are 75 comments on the CBS News story from Oct 13, 2009, titled Deadly Sweat Lodge Didn't Have Permits. In it, CBS News reports that:

Photo: "Sweatbox" structure at Angel Valley resort in Sedona, Ariz. FLAGSTAFF, Ariz.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBS News.

First Prev
of 4
Next Last
Linda

New Baltimore, MI

#66 Oct 30, 2009
Cid wrote:
<quoted text>I don't agree with any racial slur towards Native americans. however it appears some race baiters are also stirring the pot of a subject that really has nothing to do with racism at all. I am part cherokee as many Americans are. AND I love saunas. This does appear to be negligence on the part of this man holding the seminars
The sweat lodge isn't a sauna & Cherokees do not hold sweat lodges it is not in their ways. This is extreme negligence, He targets the American baby boomer dream mentality by appealing to their GREED & aspirations of assumption of lifelong prosperity and entitlement from the 1950's white privileged middle class suburban baby boomer desire to continually aspire to be the first kid on the block with the very latest and greatest,, these same baby boomers who rejected their very own elders traditional values regarding them as ignorantly old fashioned in favor of always adopting the newest fad, which now is to emulate Native American Spirituality and healing. Indians weren't privy to the latest and greatest we didn't grow up with brand new Ked's on our feet, Wonderbread on our tables, or two cars in garage, we ate government commodity food, WE lived on reservations hidden away from view in tar paper shacks then in the 1950's when we tried to move to the cities for assimilation and jobs & a better life the doors were seldom opened to us. We didn't get our freedom of religion until the 1970's How ironic it is to have these same people attempt to reap our way of healing ourselves, but Indians such as myself are the ELDERS now that pass our ways on for our youth that is still affected though our onslaughts of these atrocities which is no different than those type of people who never fought for our country that hang around the VFW collecting other people's war stories then claiming the honor & glory as their own. If you haven't been through the work and the war you can't claim the glory! Our 'boundaries' been disregarded

In James Arthur's website he states the following:
"This is the defining factor of real wealth... And, after all, isn't true Harmonic Wealth what you really want and deserve?...blending the latest and greatest findings....yet you've been brainwashed to think that only sweat and hard work will get you where you want to be. Here's a better way...Let the journey be your roadmap to an abundant, wealthy and fulfilled life.Yesterday's biggest nerd is today's richest man in the world (and he doesn't even have a college degree). You'll define and enforce your own boundaries—without someone else telling you what they should be...There is no sacrifice—only greater and more magnificent results, wealth, adventure and fulfillment."

In humanistic, relationship-based schools of therapy there are 'BOUNDARIES' in the therapeutic relationship, this however is not only being crossed by this organization but it is being EXPECTED of participants to be completely and grossly disregarded OF THE VERY PEOPLE OF WHOM IT HAS BEEN FALSELY APPROPRIATED!

realist I commend you!
Those of us who were somewhat successful were only successful because we had to be much brighter than the average American in order to succeed, we did not have the luxury of be being grandfathered into wealth with little intelligence or no education as James Arthur Ray peddles his wares on his site.
realist

Tallahassee, FL

#67 Nov 1, 2009
Jason Lee wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to even mention the fact that a heck of a lot of cultures from all around the globe have traditionally done variations of this.
Yes, I know that. I am Native American but am aware that the practice occurs around the world.

The only sad part about this thread is the vitriolic racial tension that erupted. The guy with the OU symbol said something that offended whites, then a few bigots said something racist in return. And it got out of control with online castigation.

Not all tribes practice sweatbaths like they used to. In the 1800s, it was much more common. Some retain certain elements of the culture while lose others. Overall, the culture is dying. Indigenous languages are rapidly dying off.

I am Native American. The racial tension I saw on this thread reminded me of Arizona in the 1970s. The racial tension was extremely bad between whites and Indians in Eastern Arizona. It reminds me of that movie "Billy Jack." In this scene, a group of white men throw flour on a Native American child, a girl, to make her look "white." Then Billy Jack, a half-white "Rez Indian" arrives. Billy is a Vietnam Veteran and martial arts expert trained by Green Berets. He battles the bigots by himself. The police arrive but don't arrest the white men who abused the Native American child. But they arrest Billy Jack at the end. Such was racism in Arizona in the 1970s. Modern Arizona has gotten much better, but it's still not perfect.
Daly

Jacksonville, FL

#68 Nov 1, 2009
realist wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I know that. I am Native American but am aware that the practice occurs around the world.
The only sad part about this thread is the vitriolic racial tension that erupted. The guy with the OU symbol said something that offended whites, then a few bigots said something racist in return. And it got out of control with online castigation.
Not all tribes practice sweatbaths like they used to. In the 1800s, it was much more common. Some retain certain elements of the culture while lose others. Overall, the culture is dying. Indigenous languages are rapidly dying off.
I am Native American. The racial tension I saw on this thread reminded me of Arizona in the 1970s. The racial tension was extremely bad between whites and Indians in Eastern Arizona. It reminds me of that movie "Billy Jack." In this scene, a group of white men throw flour on a Native American child, a girl, to make her look "white." Then Billy Jack, a half-white "Rez Indian" arrives. Billy is a Vietnam Veteran and martial arts expert trained by Green Berets. He battles the bigots by himself. The police arrive but don't arrest the white men who abused the Native American child. But they arrest Billy Jack at the end. Such was racism in Arizona in the 1970s. Modern Arizona has gotten much better, but it's still not perfect.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =v325wdgoFH4XX
Now they just blame Mexican for all the evils of the world. Mexicans have alot of Native blood in them so maybe it's the same.
Linda

New Baltimore, MI

#69 Nov 1, 2009
Race is not the issue here, the article is the failure to have a permit or not, but what Practicing Native Americans are saying is simply stating that it was done in the wrong way for the wrong purposes and constructed improperly by persons who were not knowledgeable. Race is not the issue here, believe it or not there are still full blooded Indians who don't know their culture, one of my aunts for sure and she's full blooded, you see there are still some Indians today of substantial Indian blood who don't care to know, regardless of the fact that a large majority of Native Americans in America have returned to their particular practices or are learning their languages by other who retained it, there are Native American language classes offered at Colleges & Universities all over the US. I'm sorry to say this to 'realist' but the statement that we are a dying culture is not entirely true, sure we no longer live in the same manner as our ancestors did, but who in the today world does? If that is the case then anyone would also have to say that very human being on the planet's culture has also died. Scotsmen no longer wear tartans and sleep out in the open in the heathers but that doesn't mean they aren't still Scotsmen with a lot of their traditions still intact, In Canada the aboriginal population is enough to swing an election by one third, one third of Canada is North American Indian and I don't see them dying off anytime soon either. It is true that there is still a lot of race issues in America but this incident is not about race it about the fact that sheer disregard "at any cost" has resulted in death. There are Indians that don't know and there are probably Non Indians that do know,, a very good example would be of an English man named Archie Belaney who in the 1930's became an Ojibwe Indian named Grey Owl. He was more Indian than a lot of real Indians at the time and did not have one single drop of Indian blood. He took the time to learn the culture and ended up giving a lecture in full Native dress at Buckingham Palace before King George VI and Queen Elizabeth and ended up saving the beaver from extinction! Then of course on the other hand there were those full blooded Indians such as one of my aunts who tried to pass herself off as white by bleaching her hair and staying out of the sun & refusing to speak Ojibwe as did quite a few others of her time, partly in shame and partly to have a better life in a time when few doors were opened for those of Native blood, and as a result these people have children who today with a substantial amount of Native blood and don't know a thing about their culture. So in conclusion, just because a person is Indian doesn't mean they know their culture and just because a person is non Indian doesn't mean there can't be any that haven't taken the time to learn it, if that is what they truly wanted, if this organization had done the same then maybe those people would not have died.
realist

Tallahassee, FL

#70 Nov 2, 2009
Sweat lodges wrote:
Used by North American Indian tribes & Whites etc
to cleanse the body and prepare for hunts, ceremonies and other events —
are a common practice.
Most are held in forests on private property and hold no more than a dozen people
This clip reminds me of rural Arizona in the 1970s - especially Show Low, AZ. It is the scene where racist white men throw flour on Native American girls and beat up one of the guys from the reservation with them. Then Billy Jack arrives, the half-breed Green Beret karate expert. I usually don't have problems with racism in Florida though. But Arizona of the 1970s had some turmoil with racial tension. Modern Phoenix is much better now though. I think young people are more open-minded and tolerant about diversity.

http://billyjackdvd.com/video/bj_clip.html
Alex

United States

#71 Nov 2, 2009
From what i understand Arizona still has racial tension
Smar Tass

Brook, IN

#72 Nov 2, 2009
realist wrote:
<quoted text>
This clip reminds me of rural Arizona in the 1970s
The very poorly doctored football schedule (apparently customized for the movie with a black marker) behind Billy indicates 1969.
Alexa

United States

#73 Nov 2, 2009
I loved that song One tin soldier

“TheseDays”

Since: Apr 07

Location hidden

#74 Nov 2, 2009
And a 'permit' would've made a difference?
REALLY

Sedona, AZ

#75 Jul 31, 2010
lv2bn8v wrote:
white people sure know how to mess things up!! a sweat lodge is sacred to native americans and no one other then natives should be practicing this ceremony
That is racist comment, common sense required, not race!
REALLY

Sedona, AZ

#76 Jul 31, 2010
Jason Lee wrote:
Why would "Deadly Sweat Lodge Permits" even be available?
Seems to me giving out that kind of permit would just be asking for trouble.
hello, they are helpful and cleanse the body of impurities, not to mention the spritual benefits, more people shold sweat it out!
alena

Edmonton, Canada

#77 Apr 6, 2011
dumb fking injuns wrote:
<quoted text>
"white people"?....caucasians/eu ropeans... have created everything you see around you...have walked on the moon....so what havethe primitive brown people done besides drink beer and sit on their asses in sweat lodges payed for by the taxpaying "white people".
You know, I'm white and I'm ashamed what my race has done to earth. We should have learned from native people a lot of wisdom, such as a respect to th nature and maybe we would see how ignorant we are. Native people all over the world are and always have been closer to be human then we are, they have been closer to true in everything. Just look at what our science brought us. Good luck to all of us in next few years!!!!!!!!!!
alena

Edmonton, Canada

#78 Apr 6, 2011
Linda, world needs more people like you!
Thank you!
NATIVE

London, KY

#79 Jun 26, 2011
FU** ALL MEXICANS. THEY SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED IN THIS COUNTRY!!! I SAY SEND THEM ALL BACK WHERE THEY BELONG!!! BUY AMERICAN!!!!!!!
No Name

Sedona, AZ

#80 Aug 13, 2012
Stupid is as stupid does...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 4
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Flagstaff Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Looking for a naughty girl. 18 min Suck It Up People 1
Being naked around adults is not a Federal Crime. 1 hr Suck It Up People 1
FBI, US Marshals cracking down on nudity, inclu... (Sep '15) 1 hr Suck It Up People 5
Don't use Coyote express dope head drivers Nov 28 Fuckyou 1
Review: University Of Sedona (Mar '10) Nov 23 Guest1674 22
living in lake havasu city (Apr '07) Nov 21 ExLHCResident 179
Considering relocating to Sedona..what's it lik... (Dec '08) Oct '16 Nottrue 258

Flagstaff Jobs

More from around the web

Personal Finance

Flagstaff Mortgages