Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio

There are 2047 comments on the EMS1 story from Feb 1, 2013, titled Ambulance, fire levy sparks debate in Ohio. In it, EMS1 reports that:

CLEARCREEK TWP., Ohio - Trustees in Clearcreek Twp. - third among 11 Warren County townships in net property taxes - disagree about asking voters for an additional 4.5-mill levy to fund fire protection and ambulance services.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EMS1.

unionman

Englewood, OH

#502 Apr 2, 2013
focus wrote:
<quoted text>
Call Lamb and ask him yourself and why is it crap when anyone else disagrees with you...but when you spout your propaganda, we are to believe it like it came from THE burning bush. Can't have it both ways, AKA public record. Get your head out of your ***.
I did! Confirmed....debunked. This myth is BUSTED!

Vote Yes on 3!
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#503 Apr 2, 2013
unionman wrote:
<quoted text>
What a load of bullcrap, made up lies. Got anything concrete to back those up? Didn't think so. Not surprised...
not surprised that unionman has nothing but ridicule to back up false accusations that everything is "made up lies" ... IF they don't agree with cries of unionman for New Money, Please!
That $11 million of homeowners money already owned by the township fire department is "concrete" enough to back up Voting NO to increased taxes on May 7.
Your all misdirected

Youngstown, OH

#504 Apr 2, 2013
Please take the time to visit www.Yesto3.com to get information on this levy topic. I know this is a touchy issue for many, and feel free to flame on...

However we need to point out that ALL services cost money. Our township stays a very safe and desirable area because we work together as a community to provide excellent services. Not excessive, excellent. I find it amusing when people who have no clue what they are talking about decide to step in and say how this or that is wasteful or excessive. I assure you that most local officials, in most areas including ours, want the absolute best for their community at the best price. Certainly there is corruption around the world, and if you feel a leader is corrupt, deal with them. Do you research, hell bring about charges! But if you just "feel" something with no actual facts or evidence why don't you redirect your time to something more constructive?

As for the number of firefighters. The FD has been cutting staffing for quite a while, there is a lot of talk of new positions, etc etc that just plain isn't true. The department has been cutting, they work hard to extend the life of their expensive equipment and obtain federal grants whenever possible to keep their equipment up to current safety standards without passing that cost on locally to our citizens. The business of fire/ems is an expensive business and the costs are well beyond the ridiculous suggestions of having bake sales or begging with a boot. A single fire engine costs nearly 1/2 a million dollars, we have four. A ladder truck easily tops a million. An ambulance, every bit of 250,000. These things also require maintenance, service and repairs frequently as they are run very hard, its the nature of the business.

The staffing is also essential to pay for. First off Volunteers have been decreasing nationwide and is no longer a way to expect to protect a community of our size. If you don't believe me look into whats going on north of us in Washington Twp. They are having to hire parttime because the pool of volunteers is drying up. And most people who do volunteer are just students looking to milk a community for free schooling then they leave for a fulltime job elsewhere as soon as possible. Second, there is an obvious difference between having people who dedicate their lives to protecting yours, or people who work normal jobs and fill in as lifesavers in their spare time. Now, dont get me wrong, volunteers do amazing, thankless work. But if I have the choice between a professional who trains daily and has dedicated their life to EMS and fire, or a pipefitter who volunteers in his spare time to take care of me when I have a heartattack, a car accident or worse my home is on fire...I will happily pay for the pro!

So anyways, thanks for reading. Please understand that services do cost money. This isn't about taking taking taking, it is simply that costs increase over time and so will taxes. If they don't services will suffer. The mentality of absolutely no new taxes, no matter what is foolish and shortsighted. By no means do I suggest that every tax should be approved or that you should blindly vote yes, but what I do suggest is that you take the time to learn the facts on this and ANY issue, and then exercise your god given, fought-and-died for right to VOTE.

www.YesTo3.com

Vote Yes on Issue 3 to Protect Springboro and Clearcreek Township.
focus

Dayton, OH

#505 Apr 2, 2013
unionman wrote:
<quoted text>
I did! Confirmed....debunked. This myth is BUSTED!
Vote Yes on 3!
Well, either you or Lamb are lying...so it's one thing for sure, Lamb nor the levy will be getting my vote.
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#506 Apr 2, 2013
Public Record wrote:
<quoted text>
The record shows that our local government has cut spending significantly. The governor has already cut the local share funds by 40% in his term. They've made up for 3 years of that with no new local money. Where, specifically, do you suggest they cut?
The "Record" also shows that the township government leaders could reform their budget, living within our means, and learn to do their jobs for the public with the $11 million of taxpayers money already available. Not a politician nor financial expert; and will not tell the government how to do their jobs. My job on May 7 is to tell the government NO NEW TAXES.
We cannot afford increased taxes on our homes just because the government is tired of spending this "old money" and want an easy fix of "New Money."
Vote No to increased taxes; don't be taken in by unionman's blaming the governor, all politics are local; and our local government must learn to live within our means, without depending on state/federal stimulus funds scattered here and there.
NO NEW TAXES IS AN EASY FIX FOR HOMEOWNERS TO KEEP MORE OF OUR SALARIES FOR OUR FAMILY FIRST.
borodad

Englewood, OH

#507 Apr 2, 2013
Your all misdirected wrote:
Please take the time to visit www.Yesto3.com to get information on this levy topic. I know this is a touchy issue for many, and feel free to flame on...
However we need to point out that ALL services cost money. Our township stays a very safe and desirable area because we work together as a community to provide excellent services. Not excessive, excellent. I find it amusing when people who have no clue what they are talking about decide to step in and say how this or that is wasteful or excessive. I assure you that most local officials, in most areas including ours, want the absolute best for their community at the best price. Certainly there is corruption around the world, and if you feel a leader is corrupt, deal with them. Do you research, hell bring about charges! But if you just "feel" something with no actual facts or evidence why don't you redirect your time to something more constructive?
As for the number of firefighters. The FD has been cutting staffing for quite a while, there is a lot of talk of new positions, etc etc that just plain isn't true. The department has been cutting, they work hard to extend the life of their expensive equipment and obtain federal grants whenever possible to keep their equipment up to current safety standards without passing that cost on locally to our citizens. The business of fire/ems is an expensive business and the costs are well beyond the ridiculous suggestions of having bake sales or begging with a boot. A single fire engine costs nearly 1/2 a million dollars, we have four. A ladder truck easily tops a million. An ambulance, every bit of 250,000. These things also require maintenance, service and repairs frequently as they are run very hard, its the nature of the business.
The staffing is also essential to pay for. First off Volunteers have been decreasing nationwide and is no longer a way to expect to protect a community of our size. If you don't believe me look into whats going on north of us in Washington Twp. They are having to hire parttime because the pool of volunteers is drying up. And most people who do volunteer are just students looking to milk a community for free schooling then they leave for a fulltime job elsewhere as soon as possible. Second, there is an obvious difference between having people who dedicate their lives to protecting yours, or people who work normal jobs and fill in as lifesavers in their spare time. Now, dont get me wrong, volunteers do amazing, thankless work. But if I have the choice between a professional who trains daily and has dedicated their life to EMS and fire, or a pipefitter who volunteers in his spare time to take care of me when I have a heartattack, a car accident or worse my home is on fire...I will happily pay for the pro!
So anyways, thanks for reading. Please understand that services do cost money. This isn't about taking taking taking, it is simply that costs increase over time and so will taxes. If they don't services will suffer. The mentality of absolutely no new taxes, no matter what is foolish and shortsighted. By no means do I suggest that every tax should be approved or that you should blindly vote yes, but what I do suggest is that you take the time to learn the facts on this and ANY issue, and then exercise your god given, fought-and-died for right to VOTE.
www.YesTo3.com
Vote Yes on Issue 3 to Protect Springboro and Clearcreek Township.
Awesome point. Glad to see that some do their homework and report good, well thought out information. They have my vote for sure.
Get Real

Piqua, OH

#508 Apr 2, 2013
Get Real Your all misdirected...

Who Are You To Arrogantly post That All Who Oppose Tax Increases Are "misdirected..."
and No, it is not time-worthy to read the government "website" indoctrination, promoting severely misguided "facts".... slanted in favor of the government demanding New Money.
Smart voters are going in the right direction urging support for NO NEW TAXES, heading to the polls on May 7 to JUST SAY NO.
borodad

Englewood, OH

#509 Apr 2, 2013
Get Real wrote:
No, it is not time-worthy to read the government "website" indoctrination, promoting severely misguided "facts".... slanted in favor of the government demanding New Money.
Okay, then read it for yourself in the Dayton Daily News:

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...

Quote - "Local tax rates vary dramatically by community, so much so that a family owning a $100,000 home and making $60,000 per year in Oakwood or Trotwood will pay $2,000 more each year in local taxes than if they lived and worked in Beavercreek or Clearcreek Twp."

The FACT is, voters in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest effective tax rates in the region. Make sure to look at the table.
regional taxes

Springboro, OH

#510 Apr 3, 2013
borodad wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, then read it for yourself in the Dayton Daily News:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Quote - "Local tax rates vary dramatically by community, so much so that a family owning a $100,000 home and making $60,000 per year in Oakwood or Trotwood will pay $2,000 more each year in local taxes than if they lived and worked in Beavercreek or Clearcreek Twp."
The FACT is, voters in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest effective tax rates in the region. Make sure to look at the table.
Please stop trying to cloud all these posters' judgement with FACTS!:)
focus

Dayton, OH

#511 Apr 3, 2013
borodad wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, then read it for yourself in the Dayton Daily News:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Quote - "Local tax rates vary dramatically by community, so much so that a family owning a $100,000 home and making $60,000 per year in Oakwood or Trotwood will pay $2,000 more each year in local taxes than if they lived and worked in Beavercreek or Clearcreek Twp."
The FACT is, voters in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest effective tax rates in the region. Make sure to look at the table.
Boy, Mr Babb, I guess you never met a levy you didn't like.
Tell It Like It Is

Piqua, OH

#512 Apr 3, 2013
borodad wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, then read it for yourself in the Dayton Daily News:
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/loca...
Quote - "Local tax rates vary dramatically by community, so much so that a family owning a $100,000 home and making $60,000 per year in Oakwood or Trotwood will pay $2,000 more each year in local taxes than if they lived and worked in Beavercreek or Clearcreek Twp."
The FACT is, voters in Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest effective tax rates in the region. Make sure to look at the table.
THE FACT IS...

It is shocking and a slap in the face to hard working citizens of this community that the township government is going for so much Money on the May 7 Increased Taxes levy; not based on the need for NEW money; but on the basis that Clearcreek Township pay some of the lowest effective tax rates in the region....?
MAKE SURE TO LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN...
...Consider that the amount of $10.6 million was spent ALL OF LAST YEAR; And now the government is going to INCREASE the fire department budget by MORE THAN 50-percent (IF this fire levy passes)?
It appears totally unacceptable to hard working homeowners that the government is now telling us they need $4.4 million in annual NEW MONEY... to maintain existing "services?"
Local taxpaying homeowners who are already generating revenue to our local government for public safety insurance DO NOT NEED NOR WANT ANOTHER TAX BURDEN PLACED ON OUR SALARIES.
Tell It Like It Is

Piqua, OH

#513 Apr 3, 2013
borodad wrote:
<quoted text>
Awesome point. Glad to see that some do their homework and report good, well thought out information. They have my vote for sure.
The Way I See It -- After reviewing the Public Records of the Clearcreek Township Permanent Appropriations --
truth be told ......

With a projected budget of 6.4 million dollars for 2013, and 4.6 million being paid out to wages, salaries and benefits; and
With less than 2 million spent on vehicles, repairs and maintenance, utilities and liability insurance...
the way I see it, with just a little bit of "township belt-tightening" ...we have all the money we need in the township to carry on business as usual, maintaining excellent services of our hard working public safety workers, keeping our families safe and taxes on our family homes affordable for all!

Now for all you lovers of "facts for increased taxes" please take time to check with the Warren County Auditors Office; and isn't it the truth that Township government will receive over 5 million dollars for the fire district?.... and a carryover of over 6 million in the same fire district fund??

Now it doesn't take the expertise of a rocket scientist to add that up to $11 million dollars for the Fire Department.
And as a township voter and taxpaying homeowner, I do not need nor want ANOTHER collective tax burden being placed by our local government upon my salary, my home, and my family... by the vote of only TWO township trustees promoting unnecessary (and unwanted) increased taxes.

Just Think Smart! Vote Smart!
Say No to Increased Taxes on our homes!
And Tell the Township government leaders to do their homework and cut expenses FIRST, before asking for New Money!
focus

Dayton, OH

#514 Apr 3, 2013
VOTE NO on 3, which is mainly for pay raises, not equipment. More smoke and mirrors from Wade and his cronies.

Vote Wade out, and keep LAMB from rejoining the thieves at the township.

VOTE NO and keep your hard earned money !
Tell It Like It Is

Piqua, OH

#515 Apr 3, 2013
The DDN article states: "
"Unlike in other townships, Kidd pointed out his department covers a city and township. As a bedroom community, Clearcreek Twp. also lacks commercial development that can lessen the tax burden on homeowners, he added.
Since 2001, the service area's population practically has doubled, while the department has continued to operate on existing levies and grants, officials said." - DDN

Doesn't the city pay the township for this service?
(AND ISN'T IT POOR FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT ON THE PART OF TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATORS/TRUSTEES IF THE TOWNSHIP IS NOT CHARGING THE CITY OF SPRINGBORO FOR THESE PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES; but, instead
..... DONATING to SPRINGBORO PARKS from Township General Funds $270,000 (township homeowners money)?

Why does the Township lack commercial development? Unfriendly zoning and over taxation? If the service area's population has doubled, are not the new residents also paying taxes for this service?

If you read the meeting minutes employees are getting raises and new equipment and training are being purchased.
(Check the Township public meeting minutes of December 13, 2012 for record breaking salary increases, including Robert Kidd @$91,661.76 annual salary, and please NOTE that this annual salary rate keeps hidden from public record the big cost to taxpayers for Mr. Kidd's "Plus benefits/HC/retirement package).

Maybe the Township trustees should do a survey to see how many residents have lost their jobs or taken pay cuts, how many businesses have shut down,how many businesses are struggling, how many residents are struggling, how many foreclosures there are, and how much the property value has fallen.

Is there a Budget posted on the Township website? Why does the 2012 annual financial report have all zeros'?
What are the facts?
focus

Dayton, OH

#516 Apr 3, 2013
Tell It Like It Is wrote:
The DDN article states: "
"Unlike in other townships, Kidd pointed out his department covers a city and township. As a bedroom community, Clearcreek Twp. also lacks commercial development that can lessen the tax burden on homeowners, he added.
Since 2001, the service area's population practically has doubled, while the department has continued to operate on existing levies and grants, officials said." - DDN
Doesn't the city pay the township for this service?
(AND ISN'T IT POOR FINANCIAL MANAGEMENT ON THE PART OF TOWNSHIP ADMINISTRATORS/TRUSTEES IF THE TOWNSHIP IS NOT CHARGING THE CITY OF SPRINGBORO FOR THESE PUBLIC SAFETY SERVICES; but, instead
..... DONATING to SPRINGBORO PARKS from Township General Funds $270,000 (township homeowners money)?
Why does the Township lack commercial development? Unfriendly zoning and over taxation? If the service area's population has doubled, are not the new residents also paying taxes for this service?
If you read the meeting minutes employees are getting raises and new equipment and training are being purchased.
(Check the Township public meeting minutes of December 13, 2012 for record breaking salary increases, including Robert Kidd @$91,661.76 annual salary, and please NOTE that this annual salary rate keeps hidden from public record the big cost to taxpayers for Mr. Kidd's "Plus benefits/HC/retirement package).
Maybe the Township trustees should do a survey to see how many residents have lost their jobs or taken pay cuts, how many businesses have shut down,how many businesses are struggling, how many residents are struggling, how many foreclosures there are, and how much the property value has fallen.
Is there a Budget posted on the Township website? Why does the 2012 annual financial report have all zeros'?
What are the facts?
One can consider that timely donation as a bride for votes this fall, when King Wade wants yet another undeserved term in office as an undeserving township trustee.
Hold On To Your Money

Piqua, OH

#517 Apr 3, 2013
@ Your all misdirected..... I know this is a touchy issue for many, and feel free to flame on...and if you feel a leader is corrupt, deal with them. Do you research, hell bring about charges!......

You mean, Just Vote Yes to Increased Taxes and leave the
Spending of our Money to the government "experts?" No Way In May!

And another thing...About that "bring about charges"......justice being served?...As an alternative to voting No Tax Increases...Not a Chance!(Anyways, citizens of Springboro have recently seen our "local officials" refusing to "Deal with corruption" during the Springboro Boosters Board's financial mismangement scrutiny.....)

Don't be fooled by the "we work together" unity... That's only for union insiders and union political lapdogs...banding together positioning for increased POWER and CONTROL over OUR families income...working AGAINST the community as a whole...Just hold on to your money... It is the Voter's only power over our "God-Given Freedom" of controlling our own destiny.
May God Bless You and Your Family! AND May God Bless America!
focus

Dayton, OH

#518 Apr 3, 2013
Hold On To Your Money wrote:
@ Your all misdirected..... I know this is a touchy issue for many, and feel free to flame on...and if you feel a leader is corrupt, deal with them. Do you research, hell bring about charges!......
You mean, Just Vote Yes to Increased Taxes and leave the
Spending of our Money to the government "experts?" No Way In May!
And another thing...About that "bring about charges"......justice being served?...As an alternative to voting No Tax Increases...Not a Chance!(Anyways, citizens of Springboro have recently seen our "local officials" refusing to "Deal with corruption" during the Springboro Boosters Board's financial mismangement scrutiny.....)
Don't be fooled by the "we work together" unity... That's only for union insiders and union political lapdogs...banding together positioning for increased POWER and CONTROL over OUR families income...working AGAINST the community as a whole...Just hold on to your money... It is the Voter's only power over our "God-Given Freedom" of controlling our own destiny.
May God Bless You and Your Family! AND May God Bless America!
"work together unity" ? Tell that to agenbroad, our "silver star" winner about unity, when he spends his union money getting his slackies re-elected. Make no mistake, this community is run by 2 creatures, Wade and Agenbroad, both of them having their own personal power trips in mind before the well being of our community.
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#519 Apr 3, 2013
Thanks to President Obama, we are on the verge of economic and social collapse. As long as Obama is in office, nobody is going to be financially able to pay more in taxes.

I don't care if our taxes are lower than other cities. Why is that a reason to take more of my money?

People have less money than ever. Just look at the increase in the cost of groceries and fuel over the last 4 years.

Just wait until Obamacare fully kicks in next year. Health care providers, advocates and tax experts say the vast majority of Americans know very little about the new health care law, let alone the kind of detailed information many will need to navigate its system of subsidies and penalties.

In Ohio, Obamacare will increase Individual Insurance Premiums by 55-85%.

Just say NO to more taxes. We can't afford it anymore!
focus

Dayton, OH

#520 Apr 3, 2013
When you VOTE NO for ISSUE 3..you vote no to "politics as usual"..you vote no to shady presently elected politicians...you vote no to wasteful spending by those same politicians.

Make no mistake...this sneaky May levy isn't about fire protection, it's about politics !

WAKE UP CLEARCREEK TOWNSHIP, including those of you in SPRINGBBORO !
Saving Freedom

Piqua, OH

#521 Apr 3, 2013
focus wrote:
When you VOTE NO for ISSUE 3..you vote no to "politics as usual"..you vote no to shady presently elected politicians...you vote no to wasteful spending by those same politicians.
Make no mistake...this sneaky May levy isn't about fire protection, it's about politics !
WAKE UP CLEARCREEK TOWNSHIP, including those of you in SPRINGBBORO !
It's all about the anti-taxpayer politics of labor union power, resulting in higher taxes and a weak jobs economy. And every time voters say Yes to big union collective tax increases; we lose more of our individual-worth freedom.
Why should taxpayers enslave ourselves further, indebting our children's homes even further to the local government, by agreeing to invest hundreds more of our hard earned money into the local politics of unionism?
How can taxpayers ever expect the government's addiction to more tax increases to stop, IF we blindly vote an "easy fix" on May 7th? isn't it time to say NO to increased taxes and allow the township government freedom to exercise CUTTING EXPENSES?

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