EMT: Schools need athletic trainers - Sentinel & Enterprise

Frank Mastrangelo of Shirley is an EMT and a certified athletic trainer who volunteers his skills at Shirley Youth Football games and Friday night games at the Ayer Middle-High School. Full Story
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former trainer

AOL

#1 Oct 10, 2010
Leominster High School has already been sued by a former athlete for improper care on the field. The excuse of not having a trainer because their teams are all off site is ludacris. As a former athletic trainer who worked at a school three times the size of LHS, you figure out a way to provide the coverage. Student athletes deserve better than someone who took a first aid course. The problem is no one wants to pay for the position. It costs money for a full time trainer....about that of a full time teacher, and the school systems considers that a luxury for the care of athletes. Too bad...because a multi-million dollar lawsuit is going to cost a lot more when an athlete ends up paralyzed because someone walked an athlete off the field because they "thought" the athlete was ok.
Lunenburg

Shirley, MA

#2 Oct 11, 2010
Is being an athletic trainer the same as being an athletic supporter?
EMT Advocate

Gardner, MA

#3 Oct 11, 2010
I am appalled and outraged how a fellow EMT could downgrade our training so much. I am an EMT Paramedic and feel that EMT’s are much better than athletic trainers. EMT of all levels, basic even, are much more appropriate. Yes, the trainer can help with pulled muscles and muscle spasm but they can not replace the emergent care you get from an EMT. If anyone is walking a student off the field that shouldn’t be, it is an athletic trainer, not the EMT. We know better. I find that games that I have worked at the trainer just got in the way. If there is doctor on the field, that’s even worse. A family practice doctor doesn’t go far when the child is unconscious from a hard hit. I have even had the doctor go against my medical orders of having the child be placed in full c-spine precautions because of a head to head hit that the child was knocked unconscious and then awoke vomiting with blurred vision and arm and leg numbness. My vote is for the EMT, not the trainers. And in these hard times they are more affordable…underpaid, but more affordable.
The Insider

Brewster, MA

#4 Oct 11, 2010
former trainer wrote:
Leominster High School has already been sued by a former athlete for improper care on the field. The excuse of not having a trainer because their teams are all off site is ludacris. As a former athletic trainer who worked at a school three times the size of LHS, you figure out a way to provide the coverage. Student athletes deserve better than someone who took a first aid course. The problem is no one wants to pay for the position. It costs money for a full time trainer....about that of a full time teacher, and the school systems considers that a luxury for the care of athletes. Too bad...because a multi-million dollar lawsuit is going to cost a lot more when an athlete ends up paralyzed because someone walked an athlete off the field because they "thought" the athlete was ok.
I agree. There should always be a paramedic on scene instead of an athletic trainer whom is only trained in first aid. Trainers cannot start IV's/drugs, monitor the player on a EKG monitor and apply other advanced life saving measures. If a student needs advanced life support and only a trainer is on scene they will have to call an ambulance which is usually 3-4 minutes away and everyone know that every second can mean a big difference.
certified AT

Brookline, MA

#5 Oct 12, 2010
EMT's are great at what they do...Emergency medicine, but leave the athletic training to licensed athletic trainers. EMT's must defer to ATC's on the athletic field as the higher medical authority.(check with OEMS) Get the facts before you comment. ATC's are trained well beyond first aid. Go to the NATA.org and see for yourself. This shouldn't be a turf war. ATC's are very well versed on athletic injuries and WHEN they need to be sent to the hospital via EMS via EMT's. EMT's are not permitted by their own protocols to treat and release an athlete to go back into sports competition. Anything beyond providing EMERGENCY care and transporting is outside their scope of training and protocols. Going beyond that could land them in the middle of a court room. An EMT telling a MD what to do? Who's the higher medically trained individual here? An EMT who took a 3 month course ( 1 year for medics) or a medical doctor? Think we need to put our egos to the side......
MASSEMT

Palm Bay, FL

#6 Dec 31, 2010
I am a massachusetts certified EMT basic and was wondering if it is legal to work as a off duty emt at for example pop warner football games or any other sports event. I have worked past games for a private ambulance company and as a side job for a emt friend of mine who has agreements with town sport teams. I enjoyed working them and wanted to continue since there is good money in it. Anyone with info please comment and let me know
The Insider

Forestdale, MA

#7 Dec 31, 2010
MASSEMT wrote:
I am a massachusetts certified EMT basic and was wondering if it is legal to work as a off duty emt at for example pop warner football games or any other sports event. I have worked past games for a private ambulance company and as a side job for a emt friend of mine who has agreements with town sport teams. I enjoyed working them and wanted to continue since there is good money in it. Anyone with info please comment and let me know
You are an EMT 24/7 so it doesn't matter if you are getting paid or not. In fact you are suppose to stop at an accident scene if you come across one off duty.
MASSEMT

Palm Bay, FL

#8 Dec 31, 2010
I wasn't sure if there was any legal issues with rendering care at sports games like if something were to happen after an EMT attended the patient or if i would still be covered under the good smaritian law.
The Insider

Forestdale, MA

#9 Jan 1, 2011
MASSEMT wrote:
I wasn't sure if there was any legal issues with rendering care at sports games like if something were to happen after an EMT attended the patient or if i would still be covered under the good smaritian law.
The good samaritan law doesn't cover you anyways since you are professionally trained. On or off the job you cannot go above your level of training when rendering care. Also if you do not render care or improperly render care you can be held negligent. Don't assume anything you do on the job means that you will be covered legally. Your company or anyone whom you work for cannot be held liable for your actions because they didn't tell you to be negligent if the situation happens. You are held liable. Don't get bonded either because a lawyer will tell you that is the worst thing you can do. It may send a message that you are not confident and also you may be sued more often since it means there is money to be gained. Don't worry, if you are working in a busy fast paced emergency service area you will be in court sooner or later, it happens to everyone and not because of negligence because everyone thinks they know how to do you job. All firefighters and emt's keep Attorney Owen R.Carrigan in Arlington, Mass in their back pocket. He has a son who is a firefighter/emt and that is what he specializes in. He hasn't lost a case representing a firefighter/emt.
ATC EMT

Brea, CA

#10 Apr 18, 2011
MASSEMT wrote:
I am a massachusetts certified EMT basic and was wondering if it is legal to work as a off duty emt at for example pop warner football games or any other sports event. I have worked past games for a private ambulance company and as a side job for a emt friend of mine who has agreements with town sport teams. I enjoyed working them and wanted to continue since there is good money in it. Anyone with info please comment and let me know
Get insurance. I use HPSO.
Massemt

Southwest Brevard Cnty, FL

#11 Apr 18, 2011
Ok cool.. Thank you
Oh my thats funny

Fitchburg, MA

#12 Apr 18, 2011
An EMT ordering a GP what to do? Sure thing junior. Keep telling yourself that you're more experienced then he good doctor.
Talk about an ego trip. You must have some serious frequent flyer miles.
MA EMT

Gardner, MA

#13 Apr 20, 2011
Oh my thats funny wrote:
An EMT ordering a GP what to do? Sure thing junior. Keep telling yourself that you're more experienced then he good doctor.
Talk about an ego trip. You must have some serious frequent flyer miles.
You obviously don't have any experience working in the Medical Field. Most GP's will tell you they wouldn't know the first thing to do out in the field. An Emergency Dept Dr would have an understanding but not a GP. I would have no problem listening to a GP on a scene as long as he was willing to go in the Ambulance with me and put his license on the line, but most will not, they will then defer to you once that request is made.
EMT

Sandwich, MA

#14 Apr 21, 2011
MA EMT wrote:
<quoted text>
You obviously don't have any experience working in the Medical Field. Most GP's will tell you they wouldn't know the first thing to do out in the field. An Emergency Dept Dr would have an understanding but not a GP. I would have no problem listening to a GP on a scene as long as he was willing to go in the Ambulance with me and put his license on the line, but most will not, they will then defer to you once that request is made.
I hear it all the time when this subject comes up and many people just need to be informed how EMS works. Doctors first on scene usually allow the EMT to take over patient care. Ask any GP and they will tell you that they haven't had to perform CPR, start an intravenous line or intubate anyone since medical school and that was under a non-emergency situation. Unless they are emergency medical doctors they will not interfere. Just because they are a doctor does not mean they can provide emergency medical care. Nurses are also a good example. They need orders from a doctor to start an IV. So most of them will attend paramedic school and become certified as a paramedic in addition to their nursing certification. This is so they can start an IV in the emergency room without doctors orders. Most doctors encourage nurses to become paramedics. Next time you visit your GP doctor ask him/her and they will tell you that an EMT/Paramedic is better trained to handle emergency life saving situations than they are.
EMT

Sandwich, MA

#15 Apr 21, 2011
Oh my thats funny wrote:
An EMT ordering a GP what to do? Sure thing junior. Keep telling yourself that you're more experienced then he good doctor.
Talk about an ego trip. You must have some serious frequent flyer miles.
How come an ambulance is called to a GP's office for a patient with chest pain on an every day basis? Why doesn't the GP just handle it? Why don't they just have GP's on ambulances then instead of sitting in an office? I asked my GP and he stated he never performed CPR or started an IV even in medical school.
Public Safety ethics

Ashburnham, MA

#17 Apr 23, 2011
The Insider wrote:
<quoted text>
You are an EMT 24/7 so it doesn't matter if you are getting paid or not. In fact you are suppose to stop at an accident scene if you come across one off duty.
Imagine that?? Can this trust ever be severed? Do you guys take an oath? While on duty can you decide who to help and who not to help?? If you decide to not help someone should you lose your job?

Do you believe that some people are above others???
The Insider

Fitchburg, MA

#18 Apr 24, 2011
Public Safety ethics wrote:
<quoted text>
Imagine that?? Can this trust ever be severed? Do you guys take an oath? While on duty can you decide who to help and who not to help?? If you decide to not help someone should you lose your job?
Do you believe that some people are above others???
That last post doesn't make sense? On duty you cannot decide who to help. You can lose your EMT certification if you decide not to help someone. Off duty has the same rules. Just remember scene safety is the 1st priority and your safety as an EMT. If the patient cannot be treated in a safe setting that may be life threatnening to yourself as an EMT then treatment can be delayed. Such as live power lines in contact with a vehicle involved in an accident.

Some people above others? Huh? What does that mean? Oh I see this is the sore loser posting from Baldwinville again.
Fitchburgs Finest

Ashburnham, MA

#19 Apr 28, 2011
The Insider wrote:
<quoted text>
That last post doesn't make sense? On duty you cannot decide who to help. You can lose your EMT certification if you decide not to help someone. Off duty has the same rules. Just remember scene safety is the 1st priority and your safety as an EMT. If the patient cannot be treated in a safe setting that may be life threatnening to yourself as an EMT then treatment can be delayed. Such as live power lines in contact with a vehicle involved in an accident.
Some people above others? Huh? What does that mean? Oh I see this is the sore loser posting from Baldwinville again.
Interesting? Sore loser? HMMM? Are you ready to tell the truth yet? Or are you going to put your career on the line? What you did is against all the EMT rules. I feel that if you tell the truth then you apologize to the person then your career stays on track. Otherwise if you stand by the lie then you have severed the trust of the citizens whom you swear to assist. At present people don't know if they can trust you with their lives in your hands! This is a serious trust issue here!
I understand that you are relatively new to the job but you must put your work and career ahead of politics! In your position you cannot be allowed to treat people due to who they are nor what there politics are. I have stated many times out here that I wouldn't hesitate to help anyone no matter our personal differences nor what they have done to me illegally if they needed emergency assistance. This is who I am and you should be more so especially in your position!
The Insider

Chilmark, MA

#20 Apr 28, 2011
Fitchburgs Finest wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting? Sore loser? HMMM? Are you ready to tell the truth yet? Or are you going to put your career on the line? What you did is against all the EMT rules. I feel that if you tell the truth then you apologize to the person then your career stays on track. Otherwise if you stand by the lie then you have severed the trust of the citizens whom you swear to assist. At present people don't know if they can trust you with their lives in your hands! This is a serious trust issue here!
I understand that you are relatively new to the job but you must put your work and career ahead of politics! In your position you cannot be allowed to treat people due to who they are nor what there politics are. I have stated many times out here that I wouldn't hesitate to help anyone no matter our personal differences nor what they have done to me illegally if they needed emergency assistance. This is who I am and you should be more so especially in your position!
Wrong. I follow EMT rules. Not new to the job. I teach EMT courses. An EMT is no use to a patient unless he surveys the scene to make sure it is safe. We don't need 2 patients. The EMT and the patient. An EMT will not render care unless he can do so in a safe manner that doesn't jeopardize his/her own personal safety. Sorry Lynch but maybe you should take an EMT course.

Loose trust? I didn't state anything that I could loose my career over. I see you love to threaten people with reprimands and job loss because they inform you of the facts. Don't be sore because an EMT had to restrain yourself. It was for your own saafety.
Voter

Bedford, MA

#21 Apr 28, 2011
Ahhh, the tell tale sign of a Lynch post. Lots of "I" statements and the ever telling "I feel". What a joke.

That's right, you don't like EMTs now that you've gotten into a fight with one at JRs. Who's next on your list? Water works employees? Meter Maids?

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