Police: City man had dozens of guns

A Mt. Carmel Street man who kept close to 40 guns, more than a dozen bayonets and a live grenade in his house is free on personal recognizance bail after his arraignment Tuesday. Full Story
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Cit4WhatItIs

Boston, MA

#2 Oct 25, 2007
Well, he should have just told the police he was a drug dealer, then he would have been off the hook (for a little toot, of course)
HerrBGone

United States

#3 Oct 25, 2007
I don't see anything illegal here. Even if the grenade had the primer intact it isn't a "live grenade." .50 cal. ammunition is no big deal either. And FYI: the scary sounding "four military canisters full of various ammunition" are nothing more than your run of the mill ammo crates. What else are you going to store your ammo in?

This is a lot of hassle and hype over absolutely nothing.
Jim

East Hartford, CT

#4 Oct 25, 2007
What's the crime here? He had an FID, and all this stuff is legal and the grenade was a dewat.
Former Fitchburg Resident

Damariscotta, ME

#5 Oct 25, 2007
It is kinda bizarre that ANYONE would think that owning .50 caliber ammunition, many guns and a Hand Grenade is supposed to be a legal thing.

For anyone who has been around the Armed Forces, such weaponry is known as Anti-Personnel Weapons. In short it is not for John Q. Hunter to trod through the woods to kill Bambi.

These things kill people. Also in a city like Fitchburg where guns are rampant, constantly in the wrong hands, and with all the shootings over the past 2 years in the city (Something that the folks in Massachusetts, and the German from Corning, New York wouldn't know about, nor would they know where Fitchburg is!) it is the last thing needed in Central Massachusetts.

All you need is one drug dealer to break into that apartment, and you have a drug dealer with a hand grenade, and ammunition that could peirce the armor of a person, vehicle etc.

.50 caliber ammunition brought many a Luftwaffe Pilot an early death (something that our HerrBGone from Corning, NY should know about..), and such could cause many problems.

Also, having lived in Maine almost as long as I have lived in Fitchburg, I have read newspaper reports of minors being killed with guns in their homes.

But what is more troubling that anyone would rationalize the need to have/own a Hand Grenade.

The Fitchburg Police should be credited for this, as such weapons need not be a part of the City of Fitchburg.
BDN

Haverhill, MA

#6 Oct 26, 2007
Looks like a little overreaction here, this poor guy had a permit for this stuff, why not go down to Mechanic St. or up to Cleghorn and get some of the un licensed stuff off the street that the druggies are using to create havoc with?
HerrBGone

United States

#7 Oct 26, 2007
“It is kinda bizarre that ANYONE would think that owning .50 caliber ammunition, many guns and a Hand Grenade is supposed to be a legal thing.”

redbaron, the hand grenades were deactivated. Only the primer was left in one of them. Truly a “So what?” moment. The primer charge is what would have set off the main charge, except that the main charge had been removed. There was no danger to anyone from that grenade. It was a souvenir. Nothing more.

.50cal. is not much bigger than .45cal. There are thousands of handguns, even in Massachusetts, that use .45cal. ammunition. There are also handguns that use .50cal. ammunition. Some are specifically designed for hunting. There is even a 1911 style handgun in .50cal. now. They do not use the same bullets that would be used in a WWII vintage Browning machine gun. Even if the ones he had were they would be totally useless without the proper gun in which to fire them. Since no inventory was presented in the story we have no way of knowing if he had a gun that used that kind of ammo.

I truly do not see any crime here. Even in Massachusetts.

Here in America we have this thing called The Bill of Rights. Maybe you’ve heard of it? Second only to our right to freedom of expression and our right to freedom of assembly and to petition the government for redress of our grievances is our right to poses the tools we need to defend ourselves and our nation from all enemies both foreign and domestic as well as to defend ourselves from the drug dealers and gang bangers your are afraid of on a more local basis. As has been pointed out many times, the Second Amendment is the one that enforces on the government all of the others. It is not open to negotiation. Not now. Not ever.

As to your fear that “All you need is one drug dealer to break into that apartment, and you have a drug dealer with a hand grenade, and ammunition that could peirce the armor of a person, vehicle etc.” as I’ve already said, the grenade was deactivated and no danger. A .30-06 hunting round can easily pierce body armor. Also, it is not necessary to have an FID to poses a black powder gun, even in Massachusetts.(Alan Ingel, as stated in the story, had an FID.) Many of those black powder guns – available at your local Wal*Mart – are .50cal. hunting rifles..50cal. black powder guns are not the preferred weapon of gang bangers and haven’t been since the 1860’s!

Another thing to keep in mind: Anyone breaking in to a house is breaking the law. They are the criminal – not the home owner. The home owner would be the victim. Stealing things is a crime. Punish the criminal – not the victim and certainly not before any crime has been committed!
HerrBGone

United States

#8 Oct 26, 2007
So why is the software turning every apostrophe in my post into ’?
HerrBGone

United States

#9 Oct 26, 2007
(Something that the folks in Massachusetts, and the German from Corning, New York wouldn't know about, nor would they know where Fitchburg is!)

Actually, I live one town over from Fitchburg. If you look, youll notice that your post claims to be originating in Nobleboro, Maine. Do you know where Fitchburg is?
fred

Chelsea, MA

#10 Oct 26, 2007
WOW!
fred

Chelsea, MA

#11 Oct 26, 2007
Wow!
fred

Chelsea, MA

#12 Oct 26, 2007
Wow.
worcesterhouse

Chelsea, MA

#13 Oct 26, 2007
so we'll see him soon.
namvet

Newington, CT

#14 Oct 26, 2007
exceptfor the grenade whats wrong, nothing
except for the socialst pre comunist goverment of this country
namvet

Newington, CT

#15 Oct 26, 2007
namvet wrote:
exceptfor the grenade whats wrong, nothing
except for the socialst pre comunist goverment of this country
not west hartford but gardner ma
Dennis

Rockport, MA

#16 Oct 26, 2007
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts the "grenades" had inert primers. Officer young sounds as if he obtained his "military experience" from comic books produced by the Brady folks.

There are no laws stating ammo is required to be locked up, it's a fire regulation, not a crime.

It's getting so anybody can say "He's got some kinde of mental issues.".

Then the police can just go over, get permission to "look around" - most folks would grant consent thinking Hey, I've got nothing to hide - Next thing you know the police will take advantage of our ambigously worded and loosely defined firearme laws to obtain a bonafide search warrent after finding a minor technical violation.

Next the citizen has several tens of thousands of dollars worth of a historical collection confiscated, is classified as a "Domestic terrorist" has his life ruined, savings depleted trying to fight the charges and may never be able to so much as touch a gun again for the rest of his life.

...and that's the best case scenario if he dosen't go directly to jail.

The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is rapidly becoming a police state and the liberals who keep re-electing socalist politicans are hastening the decline of presonal liberty and plunging all of us headlong into George Orwell's vision of the future.

I am planning to move my family out of this Communist refuge and go slightly north to a free state and leave this Commonwealth to the liberals. socalists and illegal aliens.

Thay can have it.
HerrBGone

United States

#17 Oct 26, 2007
"The Commonwealth of Massachusetts is rapidly becoming a police state and the liberals who keep re-electing socalist politicans are hastening the decline of presonal liberty and plunging all of us headlong into George Orwell's vision of the future."

That's why I generally refer to it on my blog as The People's Democratic Republic of Marxistchusetts (PDRofM).

I'm looking at both New Hampshire and Maine. Either would be an improvement of the Progressive People's Republik.
Thomas Jefferson

Quincy, MA

#18 Oct 26, 2007
It wasn't a live hand grenade.

And he had the necessary permits for all the firearms he owned.
tele_mark

Sterling, MA

#19 Oct 26, 2007
I'm sure RedBaron would agree that cars need to be banned, and for that matter, kitchen knives too. All you need is one drug dealer to steal a car, and turn it into a weapon, or break into someone's house, steal the steak knives, and use them to commit a crime with.
HerrBGone

Lunenburg, MA

#20 Oct 26, 2007
England has banned pointy steak knives. They have become a "safety scissors society." If its pointy and scary looking its not allowed. Truly pathetic! On top of that, crime has gone through the roof. All of the criminals know that the law abiding Subjects of the Crown are unarmed and thus defenseless - much like in our nations capital. All because the politicians are pandering to the redbarons of the world.

Banning cars would hurt the economy by keeping the workers from their jobs.

Banning the law abiding from being able to defend themselves actually helps the economy by keeping doctors and lawyers employed patching up crime victims and getting the criminals who caused their injuries in the first place off the hook without doing time. The government allows this because the crooks can then cause more economic growth in the medical and legal industries by causing more crime. The politicians get the fringe benefit of having an easy political platform to run on by claiming that they will work hard to fight crime by, among other things, working to ban yet more of the scary and dangerous looking tools that the law abiding could have used for self defense had they not been banned.

Its a vicious cycle.

The politicians get another fringe benefit from all of this: they will have a stronger hold on power since the average law abiding citizen, having turned in their weapons to avoid running afoul of the new (unconstitutional) law banning them, will not be able to take back the country from the politicians who have turned the nation into a socialist workers paradise.

See how that works? The Marxists, Communists and Nazis used this very technique to help solidify their grip on power in the first half of the last century. Now the socialists (calling themselves progressives) are working the same scam on us here.
Ross S

Worcester, MA

#21 Oct 29, 2007
Other than Officer Young stealing the man's powder, souvenir grenade and .50 ammo and destroying his private property, I don't see a crime being committed here. It sounds like he has an LTC, also, or he would have been charged with possessing handguns without it, so he has all the permits he needs for this stuff.
And can someone please tell me what "large capacity ammunition" is? Strange, but in 27 years of shooting I've never heard that term... is that another made up term like "cop-killer buller" that doesn't really mean anything but sounds really scary?

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