Immigration laws tear families apart

May 25, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Worcester Telegram & Gazette

Miguel Leal of Fitchburg and six others had the full attention of President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden in the Oval Office on Tuesday.

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381 - 400 of 438 Comments Last updated Jul 3, 2013
Just Facts

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#403
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
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On the contrary, I propose no such ignorance of law.
You and I have both agreed that people being taken here as minors who then come to realize their takers haven't followed protocol and report to "the system" should be removed as per protocol, but allowed to enter as any other person would in the legal system.
This is a step forward in assuring that law is not only just,
but that it treats individuals as just that.
It is not "ignoring the law," as many people who advocate not changing anything in the law and/or increasing the "gunning down" of people who they can "tag" ironically seem to emphasize.
Sam,

Although you and I may agree on that one example of someone finding out that they are here unlawfully, doing the right thing by going to the authorities, your continued remarks lead me to believe you truly believe that illegals should be allowed exception to our laws or procedures.

Just your last posting regarding the concept that England and other nations thought the people coming here were criminals is very telling. Personally, I couldn't care less what the people in England or any other nation thinks about Americans, and they would do better to focus on their own countries and problems.

Your absurd statement that our laws advocate "gunning down" people is just another example of the ridiculous viewpoint you continue to hold regarding our laws.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

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#404
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
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So you may not be Sonny or Lynch...you are just another dumb shit with a keyboard....got it.
Why attack someone for trying to express their views?
Austinite

Austin, TX

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#405
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
The United States of America was originally founded by what were then considered "criminals" in the eyes of the crown. This is prior to the family you're describing, but even in 1850, for example, slavery, which is illegal, was wide-spread and not against the law until 1865.
This illustrates in the foundation of the country and in it's developing history, that law and enforcement are interpretive to change for what would be considered better for the civil treatment and mutual economic growth of peoples in the US.
That does not justify people entering the United States today in ways that are deemed unlawful, but it does point to attention that ignoring injustice in any lawful system is unAmerican.
Incorrect, what is now Georgia was a penal colony for the crown. The remainder were free immigrants though there were some indentured servants send to work off their debt to the crowm.
Slavery was legal back in the day. Africans would sell their own people to European slavers who in turn brought them here as well as other places to be sold.
The War of Northern Aggression was fought to preserve the Union and not to free slaves though the slavery issue was a minor part of it all. Slaves were for the rich so most people did not own even one of them.
With the Cotton Gin gaining acceptance agicultrual slavery at least was on the downswing and would probably have disappeared in a generation but that is not to say that slavery would not have continued in other areas of the economy.
Ironically if the North and the government of the north were so for human rights and so on then they would nto have tried to deport the millions of newly freed black slaves to Africa. They bought a large tract of land, ships, and forcibly deported tens of thousands of them before world outcry at the hypocracy stopped this. The land they bought to send all these blacks to is called Liberia.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

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#406
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Sam,
Although you and I may agree on that one example of someone finding out that they are here unlawfully, doing the right thing by going to the authorities, your continued remarks lead me to believe you truly believe that illegals should be allowed exception to our laws or procedures.
Just your last posting regarding the concept that England and other nations thought the people coming here were criminals is very telling. Personally, I couldn't care less what the people in England or any other nation thinks about Americans, and they would do better to focus on their own countries and problems.
Your absurd statement that our laws advocate "gunning down" people is just another example of the ridiculous viewpoint you continue to hold regarding our laws.
I think you may be placing your own negative view of me ahead of the situation. I actually tried to avoid that conversation when it was initially posted, which you can note by looking back. Focus on it by others doesn't mean my responding to it should be also taken negatively.

I have no belief that people should be allowed exemption purely on the fact that they are illegal. In fact, I would vote against it if such a poll came to bare; However, people's circumstances should be evaluated and their corresponding action against or for a current ruling should be taken into consideration IMO.

If it is ruled that those minors should be exiled and banned forever, then it doesn't make it right and those individuals should still be listened to if they manage to return.

This includes people that come who are not minors.

It will most likely be found in most cases, that their reasons are not just and merit further punishment.

However, the law possibly being in error should never be ignored;
we should consider the choices of peoples as we remember that our forefathers founded America on this principle.
Mike

Tampa, FL

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#407
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Immigration laws tear families apart...

Well then, feel free to stay as a family unit in your original Country.
An American

Gardner, MA

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#408
Jun 21, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
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So you may not be Sonny or Lynch...you are just another dumb shit with a keyboard....got it.
"So everyone who disagrees with them and poses uncombfortable questions to them, get the same treatment, it's either "hey Lynch" or "hey Sonny", it's quite comical if it wasn't so ignorant."

Or any number of other childish insults!!! It doesn't matter which one you use, still the same idiotinc response to being challenged on your statements.
Just Facts

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#409
Jun 21, 2013
 

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An American,

The insult isn't childish at all my friend, it is a bona-fide insult from one adult to another. I went back and read your partisan rantings and ravings about those big bad republicans, and you may not be Sonny and you may not be Lynch, but you sure write like them.

You make assumptions about everything republican and then go on about how republicans hate everyone...so I will say it again, one adult to another...you are a dumb shit with a keyboard.
Dolemite

Leominster, MA

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#410
Jun 21, 2013
 
You jive turkeys need to go to www.youtube.com and watch It's MLK day Charlie Bro to get an education on history.
Jtn

Concord, MA

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#412
Jun 21, 2013
 
Cathy are yu an immigrant?
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

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#415
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
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You're assuming that I declare a person present has more legal right to entry than any other person. This is not the case. The victims of undocumented immigration only deserve the right to be treated as individuals, which means not stripping them OF their entry rights when they exit the country.
By the logic you've declared regarding minors:
A baby that is taken to the United States by any adult and does not have their paperwork done... is a criminal.
It's not by my logic, but legal definition according current law.

As I've said before, I don't know how frequently the situation you describe actually happens.

If and when it does, however, is undoubtedly due to our governments failure to enforce the laws that each and every elected official takes an oath to uphold.

There is a very high rate of re-entry among persons who have been deported. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we see that here, in this area (very high per capita rate of illegal aliens) constantly. And I mean, constantly.

While I'm merely speculating, the very fact that these individuals are already established, have family and friends, speak the language well in many cases and are familiar with all the ways to exist here while remaining under the radar, or with people who can guide them in the same, is probably the very reason that this happens. They are at a much higher risk of remaining here in violation of immigration laws.

Whether it's kind or fair is another matter. There are so many things about illegal immigration that aren't kind or fair, to all parties involved including legal immigrants and citizens.
An American

Gardner, MA

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#416
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
An American,
The insult isn't childish at all my friend, it is a bona-fide insult from one adult to another. I went back and read your partisan rantings and ravings about those big bad republicans, and you may not be Sonny and you may not be Lynch, but you sure write like them.
You make assumptions about everything republican and then go on about how republicans hate everyone...so I will say it again, one adult to another...you are a dumb shit with a keyboard.
"You make assumptions about everything republican"

Um no, I'm pointing out all the REAL, HUNDREDS OF POSTS you've all put down in print on these boards you misdirecting idiot!!!!!

WHY you simply cannot admit YOU WERE WRONG ON THOSE COUNTS is the funny part!!!!!!

This is when we always reach the point where FACTS, show you've been ignorant, wrong, and you've been piling on top of the wrong for months on end and you simply cannot admit YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!

Must suck being a Republican since you can never, ever, make this basic discussion concession as all the rest of the general public can and move on!

You are and were wrong on all those BS fabricated scandals and you simply cannot admit that!!!!!

No Lynch, No Sonny, no other distracting points need to be made, you're wrong, period!!!!!!

And what oh I'm being hard on Republicans? What a bunch of BS after you all hammer away at Democrats with all kinds of name calling and ridiculous baseless charges, poor poor babies.
An American

Gardner, MA

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#417
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
An American,
The insult isn't childish at all my friend, it is a bona-fide insult from one adult to another. I went back and read your partisan rantings and ravings about those big bad republicans, and you may not be Sonny and you may not be Lynch, but you sure write like them.
You make assumptions about everything republican and then go on about how republicans hate everyone...so I will say it again, one adult to another...you are a dumb shit with a keyboard.
Yep, sure hate when your tactics are exposed huh meathead!!!!

"ON this you are 100% correct, that's exaclty what they're doing! it makes them feel better about themselves, has to be it cause there is no way that many people are the same person, and those who practice this diversion have ZERO ability to recognize writing styles. So everyone who disagrees with them and poses uncombfortable questions to them, get the same treatment, it's either "hey Lynch" or "hey Sonny", it's quite comical if it wasn't so ignorant."

Address the point then if the above is not a tactic of the right, how about all those NON SCANDALS you've been championing?!??!??!
Rosie

Leominster, MA

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#418
Jun 22, 2013
 
An American wrote:
<quoted text>
"You make assumptions about everything republican"
Um no, I'm pointing out all the REAL, HUNDREDS OF POSTS you've all put down in print on these boards you misdirecting idiot!!!!!
WHY you simply cannot admit YOU WERE WRONG ON THOSE COUNTS is the funny part!!!!!!
This is when we always reach the point where FACTS, show you've been ignorant, wrong, and you've been piling on top of the wrong for months on end and you simply cannot admit YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!
Must suck being a Republican since you can never, ever, make this basic discussion concession as all the rest of the general public can and move on!
You are and were wrong on all those BS fabricated scandals and you simply cannot admit that!!!!!
No Lynch, No Sonny, no other distracting points need to be made, you're wrong, period!!!!!!
And what oh I'm being hard on Republicans? What a bunch of BS after you all hammer away at Democrats with all kinds of name calling and ridiculous baseless charges, poor poor babies.
Hey baby. Just because you're a bull dike who likes to munch carpet holes doesn't mean you are always right. I don't think it's a party thing but more of personal beliefs on issues. Speaking of partys I can tell you are a sexy girl how would you like to hook up and you can lick my piss fenders while I watch a Jane Fonda work out video? mmmmmm!
An American

Gardner, MA

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#419
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Attack the messenger, go so far as to call me a killer, anyhing you can think of to distract from the fact that you, all 5-6 7 of you who now come out of the woodwork and attack me, for pointing it out!!

I'm a killer, a Dyke, Lynch, Sonny, on and on you'll all pots thousands of words that DO NOT ADDRESS your failings as pointed out.

Must suck being a Republican.
An American

Gardner, MA

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#420
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Why attack someone for trying to express their views?
Because they hae no other recourse, that's why, childish, ignorant, and they don't like being stopped in their tracks of unending BS fabrication, so they attack the one who points it all out!!
Rosie

Leominster, MA

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#421
Jun 22, 2013
 
What's wrong sweetness. Are you saying you don't like women? Well fine I hope you spend the morning puking up all the baby batter in your stomach bleach breath for hurting my feelings.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

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#422
Jun 22, 2013
 

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An American wrote:
<quoted text>
Because they hae no other recourse, that's why, childish, ignorant, and they don't like being stopped in their tracks of unending BS fabrication, so they attack the one who points it all out!!
If having no recourse is the case, then aggressiveness may not always be the best solution. Some people need time.

If insult and injury being cast as unfavorable,
then I wouldn't promote them too heavily.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

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#423
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Rosie wrote:
<quoted text>Hey baby. Just because you're a bull dike who likes to munch carpet holes doesn't mean you are always right. I don't think it's a party thing but more of personal beliefs on issues. Speaking of partys I can tell you are a sexy girl how would you like to hook up and you can lick my piss fenders while I watch a Jane Fonda work out video? mmmmmm!
I think that's the first time I've heard the term "piss fenders."

As interesting as that is, if political party talk is something you find sexy, then I would direct you to a more specific forum or commentary section regarding varying "sides" of politics.

This may provide you with increased opportunity to succeed in picking someone up, although posting your contact information would also be helpful in increasing your rate of success.

This comment section is attached to immigration law,
which may only on occasion cite a political party.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

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#424
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not by my logic, but legal definition according current law.
As I've said before, I don't know how frequently the situation you describe actually happens.
If and when it does, however, is undoubtedly due to our governments failure to enforce the laws that each and every elected official takes an oath to uphold.
There is a very high rate of re-entry among persons who have been deported. Not to put too fine a point on it, but we see that here, in this area (very high per capita rate of illegal aliens) constantly. And I mean, constantly.
While I'm merely speculating, the very fact that these individuals are already established, have family and friends, speak the language well in many cases and are familiar with all the ways to exist here while remaining under the radar, or with people who can guide them in the same, is probably the very reason that this happens. They are at a much higher risk of remaining here in violation of immigration laws.
Whether it's kind or fair is another matter. There are so many things about illegal immigration that aren't kind or fair, to all parties involved including legal immigrants and citizens.
Those failures are issues that need to be addressed that can tie into further errors, with regard to people entering illegally.

If individuals with such assets are restricted due to errors, then it is very likely the result will be breaking the law themselves if they are on the "outside" and the error is being "enforced" by airports and embassies.

Would they have chosen to utilize such assets in the first place to avoid legality, then it would certainly be in their power to have done so and I find it quite peculiar that such considerations are not taken into account by enforcement agencies.

Instead, their "desire to obey the law" and their "not utilizing assets to disobey the law" are considered a "higher risk."

That whole thing sounds rather like a lack of intelligence,
which I feel should be brought to attention.

Federal staff are representatives of the US and the US should not represent a lack of intelligence. Immigration laws need to be interpreted further and federal staff should receive this new intel, so that they can act accordingly.

After such implementations, cases of immigrants caught in these circumstances that end up breaking the law because the law won't hear them would be reduced and those who aren't caught in any circumstances and decide to break the law would be more fairly punished, rather than the current "issue" which has cropped up.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

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#425
Jun 22, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Those failures are issues that need to be addressed that can tie into further errors, with regard to people entering illegally.
If individuals with such assets are restricted due to errors, then it is very likely the result will be breaking the law themselves if they are on the "outside" and the error is being "enforced" by airports and embassies.
Would they have chosen to utilize such assets in the first place to avoid legality, then it would certainly be in their power to have done so and I find it quite peculiar that such considerations are not taken into account by enforcement agencies.
Instead, their "desire to obey the law" and their "not utilizing assets to disobey the law" are considered a "higher risk."
That whole thing sounds rather like a lack of intelligence,
which I feel should be brought to attention.
Federal staff are representatives of the US and the US should not represent a lack of intelligence. Immigration laws need to be interpreted further and federal staff should receive this new intel, so that they can act accordingly.
After such implementations, cases of immigrants caught in these circumstances that end up breaking the law because the law won't hear them would be reduced and those who aren't caught in any circumstances and decide to break the law would be more fairly punished, rather than the current "issue" which has cropped up.
This country has a massive problem with illegal immigration and a high percentile per capita of illegal aliens who live and work outside of the laws of the land. Federal laws, state laws and local laws.

Communities and cities that have turned a blind eye to this for decades have many things in common. Local and state deficits. Failing schools, struggling, overburdened hospitals and health care clinic closures. Urban blight in highly overcrowded areas and decreasing property values in those same areas, which nets decreases in tax revenues.

The city I live in, once proud of their sanctuary city policy, had no choice except to back track, because the rising costs and rising crime left them with little choice. It's been a decade long fight and cost millions in legal battles, with everyone, including the ACLU. We had protests, we had Hispanics boycotting "American" businesses, we had outside agitators bused in from large cities, we had local and state legislators harassed, threatened and protested at their own homes. There have been dozens of class action lawsuits and thousands of civil suits clogging up our local courts.

We've had federal investigations concerning money wiring, which exposed even more ugliness. We learned how many millions of dollars were being wired out of the country from this community alone, sometimes by the very same people who get free health care, SNAP, WIC and whose children are availed of every food, health and dental program available through our local schools.

We have a high rate of unemployment, especially in the trades, yet hundreds of day laborers gathering daily to go work in those same trades. We had a large drug ring operating here with a lot of collateral crimes, including murder, run by a man who had previously done eight years in prison for the same crime in another city, who was under deportation orders and also operated an illegal day-labor operation, all under a stolen identity.

Then there are all the traffic problems. Police chases concerning drunks, some very bad accidents, including too many with fatalities by people who turned out to have previous drunk driving arrests, but no convictions. And of course, the people, like my sister in law, who are left holding the bag by a man who not only had priors, he's done the same since.

Con't

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