Immigration laws tear families apart

May 25, 2013 Full story: Worcester Telegram & Gazette 438

Miguel Leal of Fitchburg and six others had the full attention of President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden in the Oval Office on Tuesday.

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Really

Gardner, MA

#383 Jun 20, 2013
An American wrote:
Hell, tell me it's passage in the Senate isn't the problem!
Hi Lynch.... New screen name again

The Boston Globe (Boston, MA) May 18, 1993
Three men accused in the clubbing and spearing death of Andrew S. McDonough last summer pleaded guilty in Suffolk Superior Court yesterday to manslaughter.
Judge Robert Banks ordered Jason D. Clifford, 21, of Dorchester to serve 7 to 15 years, and Kevin Lynch, 23, of South Boston to serve 6 to 15 years in the state prison in Walpole; and Brian Lynch, 20, of South Boston to serve 20 years in the state prison in Concord.
Clifford will be eligible for parole in about five years, Kevin Lynch in about four, and Brian Lynch in about two years.
Sam

Brasschaat, Belgium

#384 Jun 20, 2013
An American wrote:
<quoted text>
I see, check the chances for the Bill being discussed in the Senate of passing in the House, come back and tell me, that's not a Republican problem, K?
I'm not saying that immigration reform isn't a problem facing republicans, but attacking them might not be best for the policy.
Sam

Belgium

#385 Jun 20, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Hi Lynch.... New screen name again
The Boston Globe (Boston, MA) May 18, 1993
Three men accused in the clubbing and spearing death of Andrew S. McDonough last summer pleaded guilty in Suffolk Superior Court yesterday to manslaughter.
Judge Robert Banks ordered Jason D. Clifford, 21, of Dorchester to serve 7 to 15 years, and Kevin Lynch, 23, of South Boston to serve 6 to 15 years in the state prison in Walpole; and Brian Lynch, 20, of South Boston to serve 20 years in the state prison in Concord.
Clifford will be eligible for parole in about five years, Kevin Lynch in about four, and Brian Lynch in about two years.
What is your interest in this Lynch fellow and what does it have to do with immigration?
It seems like you're trying to identify posters, associate them with other people who have been dubbed criminal, and use that as a bases for some agenda.

I don't think it's topical.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

#386 Jun 20, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
I wouldn't place your text in the "Sam wrote" quoted text section as that can be considered altering what I wrote.
There is away to insert my [Quote] or response in between each paragraph of the post I'm responding to...you can find examples of that on this thread. I've done it before...a long time ago, and when I tried to do it again, I clearly missed a step. I did not alter a single thing you posted.

Now, kindly get over it and move on.
Justice LRS

Shreveport, LA

#387 Jun 20, 2013
The title of this thread is wrong. Please correct it to read: UNENFORCED IMMIGRATION LAWS TEAR FAMILIES APART. Thank you.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

#388 Jun 21, 2013
An American wrote:
"Somewhere, back in the family history of every single one of us with European, African or Asian ancestry, is a family of immigrants to America - a family who endured hardships (sometimes unspeakable ones) to arrive and to stay here.
Why do the descendants of immigrants wish to heap more cruelty and hardship upon other immigrants? I simply cannot understand this."
It's called IGMFU!
I got mine, F you!
It's about as ignorant as you can get.
Immigration laws were put in place in the late 1800's because massive waves of immigration from other country's proved to be disastrous in terms of job markets, exploitation and the horrific living conditions, poverty and massive crime waves that resulted from unchecked immigration. Not because these immigrants were bad people, but because there simply wasn't enough to go around.

Other countries did the same, exactly so that future immigrants wouldn't have to endure the hardships (sometimes unspeakable ones) that immigrants of the past did endure. These laws, limits and quotas protect both citizen and immigrant alike.

It's not rocket science.

Ellis Island turned away more applicants than it let in.

There are numerous documentaries and tombs written on the subject. Crack a couple of them open, and then you might begin to understand.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

#389 Jun 21, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed they may be, but these "differences" aren't clear for everyone, leading to removals of life or liberty for people without documentation that aren't guilty of taking action against the law.
As I stated, these types of situations do not occur for everyone and the proposals being voiced by others here deal with removing the kids as well, with permanent bans to normal entry rights.
Unjust blocks already happen (while desert drops have been documented) and the "remove all the illegals" effort discriminates people without paperwork from those who have paperwork negatively, in addition to affecting the remainder of their lives when such acts come to pass, due to the extended restrictions placed upon them that separate them from their loved ones.
A misinformed public view IS the "Mexican" hop-over-the-fence illustration, coupled with the "social service leach," which doesn't apply to millions of illegals that are in the US involuntarily. Examples of which you've described yourself.
You deny such efforts,
when the protagonists are voicing themselves here,
and the antagonists offer examples by the pros.
At this point I would ask where such people should petition their case, when the embassy (which couldn't possibly be involved in such efforts) plays a deaf ear to individual circumstance.
Would you guide them to an "international civil court of law?"
You are, I'm afraid, being obtuse.

An individual living here without documentation is in violation of the law. Whether or not they had any control over it is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is a cornerstone of the American legal system.

Whether or not they've otherwise been model citizens grants no legal recourse, either, though it may (and certainly has) come under the discretion of an individual judge. In the eyes of the law as written, it is also irrelevant.

An individual who resided here without proper documentation has no more legal right to entry than a person who never set foot on our soil. There are no clauses or addendums to make exceptions in these cases. Therefore, exceptions are not required and must rely on discretion.

The United States, as all sovereign nations, has the implicit right to implement and regulate their own immigration laws and system as they see fit. It is not for any international court or body to interfere with those sovereign rights.
Just Facts

United States

#390 Jun 21, 2013
An American wrote:
"Somewhere, back in the family history of every single one of us with European, African or Asian ancestry, is a family of immigrants to America - a family who endured hardships (sometimes unspeakable ones) to arrive and to stay here.
Why do the descendants of immigrants wish to heap more cruelty and hardship upon other immigrants? I simply cannot understand this."
It's called IGMFU!
I got mine, F you!
It's about as ignorant as you can get.
As usual, you can be counted on to leave out the most important word in your statement, which just shows that you aren't concerned about the message that is sent when people ignore our laws.

The word that is missing from your statement, of course, is LEGAL. We abasolutley are a nation of immigrants, but we are a nation of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS...there is a profound difference when you consider the facts.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#391 Jun 21, 2013
Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
There is away to insert my [Quote] or response in between each paragraph of the post I'm responding to...you can find examples of that on this thread. I've done it before...a long time ago, and when I tried to do it again, I clearly missed a step. I did not alter a single thing you posted.
Now, kindly get over it and move on.
That sounds like a handy feature.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#392 Jun 21, 2013
Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
You are, I'm afraid, being obtuse.
An individual living here without documentation is in violation of the law. Whether or not they had any control over it is irrelevant in the eyes of the law. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" is a cornerstone of the American legal system.
Whether or not they've otherwise been model citizens grants no legal recourse, either, though it may (and certainly has) come under the discretion of an individual judge. In the eyes of the law as written, it is also irrelevant.
An individual who resided here without proper documentation has no more legal right to entry than a person who never set foot on our soil. There are no clauses or addendums to make exceptions in these cases. Therefore, exceptions are not required and must rely on discretion.
The United States, as all sovereign nations, has the implicit right to implement and regulate their own immigration laws and system as they see fit. It is not for any international court or body to interfere with those sovereign rights.
You're assuming that I declare a person present has more legal right to entry than any other person. This is not the case. The victims of undocumented immigration only deserve the right to be treated as individuals, which means not stripping them OF their entry rights when they exit the country.

By the logic you've declared regarding minors:
A baby that is taken to the United States by any adult and does not have their paperwork done... is a criminal.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#393 Jun 21, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual, you can be counted on to leave out the most important word in your statement, which just shows that you aren't concerned about the message that is sent when people ignore our laws.
The word that is missing from your statement, of course, is LEGAL. We abasolutley are a nation of immigrants, but we are a nation of LEGAL IMMIGRANTS...there is a profound difference when you consider the facts.
I think he means the majority of people who ran "illegally" to "The Americas" to escape persecution in European nations and the founders of the country who "illegally" engaged their European counterparts and declared independence by their own accord, rather than their lawful regulators.
Just Facts

United States

#394 Jun 21, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he means the majority of people who ran "illegally" to "The Americas" to escape persecution in European nations and the founders of the country who "illegally" engaged their European counterparts and declared independence by their own accord, rather than their lawful regulators.
I won't propose to "think" about what he/she meant by the statement, because the missing part of the statement makes all the difference in the world. The immigrants at the time were coming here under whatever the laws were then, and cannot provide an excuse for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS that attempt coming in here in violation of our laws now.

Our current immigration laws are here for a reason, and your continued support for people to ignore those laws and come here or remain here unlawfully will find little agreement with many of us here.

There is nothing wrong with expecting people that want to be here to respect the law instead of starting their life here violating our laws and sending the message that it is OK to do so.
Austinite

Austin, TX

#395 Jun 21, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he means the majority of people who ran "illegally" to "The Americas" to escape persecution in European nations and the founders of the country who "illegally" engaged their European counterparts and declared independence by their own accord, rather than their lawful regulators.
My fathers family came to America from Ireland in 1850, legally. Applied for entry, rode on some sailboat with hundred of other LEGAL immigrants for two months, docked at Galveston, waited in line all day, was given a physical, ensured he had some monies and skills, then after a week in health quarantine to be double sure he was not carrying any diseases he was given his papers and off he went to the interior and settled. He worked hard for a rancher for 10 years until he saved enough monies to buy some land for himself near Austin. He met a women in San Antonio and they married a couple years later, she was a Legal immigrant from Germany whose family arrived from Germany in Texas in 1831.
Yes, people do leave their home countries for whatever reasons to immigrate elsewhere. So long as it is done according to the laws of the country they wish to enter I am fine with it. Illegal aliens do none of this and are therefore nothing more than common criminals.
An American

Gardner, MA

#396 Jun 21, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your interest in this Lynch fellow and what does it have to do with immigration?
It seems like you're trying to identify posters, associate them with other people who have been dubbed criminal, and use that as a bases for some agenda.
I don't think it's topical.
ON this you are 100% correct, that's exaclty what they're doing! it makes them feel better about themselves, has to be it cause there is no way that many people are the same person, and those who practice this diversion have ZERO ability to recognize writing styles. So everyone who disagrees with them and poses uncombfortable questions to them, get the same treatment, it's either "hey Lynch" or "hey Sonny", it's quite comical if it wasn't so ignorant.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#397 Jun 21, 2013
Austinite wrote:
<quoted text>
My fathers family came to America from Ireland in 1850, legally. Applied for entry, rode on some sailboat with hundred of other LEGAL immigrants for two months, docked at Galveston, waited in line all day, was given a physical, ensured he had some monies and skills, then after a week in health quarantine to be double sure he was not carrying any diseases he was given his papers and off he went to the interior and settled. He worked hard for a rancher for 10 years until he saved enough monies to buy some land for himself near Austin. He met a women in San Antonio and they married a couple years later, she was a Legal immigrant from Germany whose family arrived from Germany in Texas in 1831.
Yes, people do leave their home countries for whatever reasons to immigrate elsewhere. So long as it is done according to the laws of the country they wish to enter I am fine with it. Illegal aliens do none of this and are therefore nothing more than common criminals.
The United States of America was originally founded by what were then considered "criminals" in the eyes of the crown. This is prior to the family you're describing, but even in 1850, for example, slavery, which is illegal, was wide-spread and not against the law until 1865.

This illustrates in the foundation of the country and in it's developing history, that law and enforcement are interpretive to change for what would be considered better for the civil treatment and mutual economic growth of peoples in the US.

That does not justify people entering the United States today in ways that are deemed unlawful, but it does point to attention that ignoring injustice in any lawful system is unAmerican.

Since: Feb 10

Location hidden

#398 Jun 21, 2013
Illegal aliens arrested after gang-rape in Illinois

"On Sunday, police in Charleston arrested Jorge Lux, 25, and his 17-year-old roommate after they reportedly sexually assaulted a female victim inside a residence.

Police have released few details, as the investigation is ongoing, and more charges may be forthcoming.

Authorities are withholding the name of the 17-year-old suspect due to his juvenile status.

Both suspects are in the country illegally from Guatemala, according to police."

http://www.examiner.com/article/illegal-alien...
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#399 Jun 21, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I won't propose to "think" about what he/she meant by the statement, because the missing part of the statement makes all the difference in the world. The immigrants at the time were coming here under whatever the laws were then, and cannot provide an excuse for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS that attempt coming in here in violation of our laws now.
Our current immigration laws are here for a reason, and your continued support for people to ignore those laws and come here or remain here unlawfully will find little agreement with many of us here.
There is nothing wrong with expecting people that want to be here to respect the law instead of starting their life here violating our laws and sending the message that it is OK to do so.
On the contrary, I propose no such ignorance of law.

You and I have both agreed that people being taken here as minors who then come to realize their takers haven't followed protocol and report to "the system" should be removed as per protocol, but allowed to enter as any other person would in the legal system.

This is a step forward in assuring that law is not only just,
but that it treats individuals as just that.

It is not "ignoring the law," as many people who advocate not changing anything in the law and/or increasing the "gunning down" of people who they can "tag" ironically seem to emphasize.
Sam

Madrid, Spain

#400 Jun 21, 2013
Stamos wrote:
Illegal aliens arrested after gang-rape in Illinois
"On Sunday, police in Charleston arrested Jorge Lux, 25, and his 17-year-old roommate after they reportedly sexually assaulted a female victim inside a residence.
Police have released few details, as the investigation is ongoing, and more charges may be forthcoming.
Authorities are withholding the name of the 17-year-old suspect due to his juvenile status.
Both suspects are in the country illegally from Guatemala, according to police."
http://www.examiner.com/article/illegal-alien...
Stamos, this seems like a newsflash of someone committing criminal activity, which has been found to have no documentation.

This doesn't address any direct comments in this commentary and tries to illustrate that "the individual has no documentation, therefor they are a murderer," which is very inaccurate.

Any person committing murder is going to be looked at poorly, but stating something like "They have white skin, which has something to do with murder." is ignoring a very large portion of murdering individuals in the world, while attempting to build hatred for all people that have "white skin."

While newsflashes are fun, this one doesn't seem very helpful or well-developed towards the immigration topic.
duh

Leominster, MA

#401 Jun 21, 2013
Stamos wrote:
Illegal aliens arrested after gang-rape in Illinois
"On Sunday, police in Charleston arrested Jorge Lux, 25, and his 17-year-old roommate after they reportedly sexually assaulted a female victim inside a residence.
Police have released few details, as the investigation is ongoing, and more charges may be forthcoming.
Authorities are withholding the name of the 17-year-old suspect due to his juvenile status.
Both suspects are in the country illegally from Guatemala, according to police."
http://www.examiner.com/article/illegal-alien...
Lynch went to jail on charges related to a murder and he was born here. What's your point?
Just Facts

United States

#402 Jun 21, 2013
An American wrote:
<quoted text>
ON this you are 100% correct, that's exaclty what they're doing! it makes them feel better about themselves, has to be it cause there is no way that many people are the same person, and those who practice this diversion have ZERO ability to recognize writing styles. So everyone who disagrees with them and poses uncombfortable questions to them, get the same treatment, it's either "hey Lynch" or "hey Sonny", it's quite comical if it wasn't so ignorant.
So you may not be Sonny or Lynch...you are just another dumb shit with a keyboard....got it.

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