Immigration laws tear families apart

May 25, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Worcester Telegram & Gazette

Miguel Leal of Fitchburg and six others had the full attention of President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden in the Oval Office on Tuesday.

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Sam

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#275
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Sam,
If what you advocate is that a child brought into the country unlawfully be deported but considered for re-admittance if they were young enough to be able to prove they had no choice, then I would agree with you.
If you advocate that these "dreamers" should be granted some type of provision to be allowed to remain here illegally, I disagree with you. They should be deported and be made to prove that they came to the authorities as soon as they were able to ask that their situation be reconciled because they previously had no choice.
The first thing I do advocate. The second thing, I think is touchy, because they are sort of American, so any type of provision should be a limited legal right in exchange for government service or something (sort of like a trial by fire), but my general notion is just to keep it simple and deport them with regular options and guidance available.
Just Facts

Fairport, NY

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#277
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
The first thing I do advocate. The second thing, I think is touchy, because they are sort of American, so any type of provision should be a limited legal right in exchange for government service or something (sort of like a trial by fire), but my general notion is just to keep it simple and deport them with regular options and guidance available.
Sam,

There isn't any such thing as "sort of American". That is part of the problem...to claim they should be given rights of any kind...I disagree that they are entitled to any rights beyond humane treatment, and they have no rights as would be afforded a United States Citizen. I do not believe they should remain here and serve in any capacity to earn residency...they need to be deported, but potentially given the ability to process through the normal process to re-enter if they haven't done something to prevent that.

No limited rights of any kind...
Sam

Belgium

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#278
Jun 14, 2013
 
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Sam,
There isn't any such thing as "sort of American". That is part of the problem...to claim they should be given rights of any kind...I disagree that they are entitled to any rights beyond humane treatment, and they have no rights as would be afforded a United States Citizen. I do not believe they should remain here and serve in any capacity to earn residency...they need to be deported, but potentially given the ability to process through the normal process to re-enter if they haven't done something to prevent that.
No limited rights of any kind...
I'm generally in agreement with you,
though righteous cannon fodder for the armed forces would be amusing.
Sarah

Fitchburg, MA

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#279
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Micmac wrote:
I have a friend who is in the final stage of getting his green card - one more hearing, I believe. He was brought here by his parents from Peru when he was 5. He just turned 42. He was unaware he was illegally residing until he tried to apply for his driving permit at 16 and his parents told him the story. He finished high school and learned various trades, having no problem getting odd jobs for cash for a couple of years. In his early twenties he married a legal resident. From then on when he took jobs, he had them pay him in checks made out to his wife so she could pay the taxes and put into Social Security. He still can't get a license, so she has to drive him to his jobs. His children are nearly grown and have real jobs - one at a mall store and the other is starting her own tailoring business.
So, he has been working on getting his green card for over 15 years knowing he could have been deported at any time to a country he never knew. They worked hard - never applied for any assistance - just wanted to be normal Americans.
This is similar to those cases that Sam is making reference to, but I think he is referring to the 'dreamers'- the ones in their late teens and early twenties who are just realizing the impact of their being here illegally. There are many high school grads in this boat that are waiting to find out what's in store for them. They thought they had their wholes lives to look forward to here and now they're facing deportation.
Most undocumenteds in states other than southern border states are not Mexican. It's really easy to enter legally and overstay a visitor or student visa. You don't have to scale a fence to get in.
The fact of the matter is that this persons parents broke the law by jumping in line with him in front of all the other people who've been legally waiting in line ahead of them to become legal citizens. It doesn't matter how long he or they've been here, they need to be removed from the line and forced to the back of the line behind those ahead of them that are doing it legally. It's really that simple.
Hmmmm

Leominster, MA

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#280
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Sam we are a country of laws. In your view some laws can be broken. I'm sure bank robbers, car thieves and drug dealers dislike the laws against them but these are the laws. What don't you understand about ILLEGAL?
ima- Ilis Myka Ashanti

El Paso, TX

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#281
Jun 14, 2013
 
Micmac wrote:
I have a friend who is in the final stage of getting his green card - one more hearing, I believe. He was brought here by his parents from Peru when he was 5. He just turned 42. He was unaware he was illegally residing until he tried to apply for his driving permit at 16 and his parents told him the story. He finished high school and learned various trades, having no problem getting odd jobs for cash for a couple of years. In his early twenties he married a legal resident. From then on when he took jobs, he had them pay him in checks made out to his wife so she could pay the taxes and put into Social Security. He still can't get a license, so she has to drive him to his jobs. His children are nearly grown and have real jobs - one at a mall store and the other is starting her own tailoring business.
So, he has been working on getting his green card for over 15 years knowing he could have been deported at any time to a country he never knew. They worked hard - never applied for any assistance - just wanted to be normal Americans.
This is similar to those cases that Sam is making reference to, but I think he is referring to the 'dreamers'- the ones in their late teens and early twenties who are just realizing the impact of their being here illegally. There are many high school grads in this boat that are waiting to find out what's in store for them. They thought they had their wholes lives to look forward to here and now they're facing deportation.
Most undocumenteds in states other than southern border states are not Mexican. It's really easy to enter legally and overstay a visitor or student visa. You don't have to scale a fence to get in.
The idea of his employer paying the wife for a job that he does is mind boggling! and maybe not legal either! what a way to live only because the parents illegally brought him here. His misery is their doing and at his age how is it that he is in the final stage of getting his card? having been here working and having his wife get his pay? doesn't seem feasible. His parents no doubt are still here, illegally.
Sam

Belgium

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#282
Jun 14, 2013
 
Micmac wrote:
I have a friend who is in the final stage of getting his green card - one more hearing, I believe. He was brought here by his parents from Peru when he was 5. He just turned 42. He was unaware he was illegally residing until he tried to apply for his driving permit at 16 and his parents told him the story. He finished high school and learned various trades, having no problem getting odd jobs for cash for a couple of years. In his early twenties he married a legal resident. From then on when he took jobs, he had them pay him in checks made out to his wife so she could pay the taxes and put into Social Security. He still can't get a license, so she has to drive him to his jobs. His children are nearly grown and have real jobs - one at a mall store and the other is starting her own tailoring business.
So, he has been working on getting his green card for over 15 years knowing he could have been deported at any time to a country he never knew. They worked hard - never applied for any assistance - just wanted to be normal Americans.
This is similar to those cases that Sam is making reference to, but I think he is referring to the 'dreamers'- the ones in their late teens and early twenties who are just realizing the impact of their being here illegally. There are many high school grads in this boat that are waiting to find out what's in store for them. They thought they had their wholes lives to look forward to here and now they're facing deportation.
Most undocumenteds in states other than southern border states are not Mexican. It's really easy to enter legally and overstay a visitor or student visa. You don't have to scale a fence to get in.
Micmac, that is indeed similar and I am talking about the late teen post graduates.

Some of them are even told to leave so that they can be done "properly," only to find that those proper rights have been removed for the rest of their lives. This, in exchange for listening to the federal agents.
Sam

Belgium

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#283
Jun 14, 2013
 
ima- Ilis Myka Ashanti wrote:
<quoted text> The idea of his employer paying the wife for a job that he does is mind boggling! and maybe not legal either! what a way to live only because the parents illegally brought him here. His misery is their doing and at his age how is it that he is in the final stage of getting his card? having been here working and having his wife get his pay? doesn't seem feasible. His parents no doubt are still here, illegally.
Being locked and barred in a foreign country away from loved ones through no action of your own is a greater misery then the "mind boggling" one here IMO.
Jux Suppose

Waukesha, WI

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#284
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Illegal IS Illegal no matter what the government tries to call it!
They deserve NOTHING but deportation!
Sam

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#285
Jun 14, 2013
 

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Jux Suppose wrote:
Illegal IS Illegal no matter what the government tries to call it!
They deserve NOTHING but deportation!
That may be good and well for the parents breaking the law;
those parents should also receive additional penalties depending on their case,

but the kids are also punished by having their rights to normal entry removed, leaving them effectively "exiled" as normal law-observing citizens based on nothing they've committed.
Hmmmm

Leominster, MA

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#286
Jun 15, 2013
 
Micmac if it is taking over 15 years for your friend to get a green card he may want to find a better immigration lawyer.
Sam

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Jun 15, 2013
 

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MD Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG!!! Entering the country ILLEGALLY does NOT make them "sort of" American. THEY ARE ILLEGAL! Why are you having such a difficult time in comprehending and accepting this very basic simple fact?
By "sort of American" I mean that they try to obide by laws and have not willingly broken any (their parents did, but they have not). I also mean that they grew up in America and they believe in America and US Law.

This is a trait that people who haven't visited the US regularly or others who haven't been forced into the country likely do not share and US intelligence, history, and faith, is a strong characteristical trait to have when it is known that these people haven't chosen to violate the law.

Under the right circumstances, that might be usable for positions where such traits are necessary, such as "line-of-fire" military situations where blind faith is necessary by the platoon.

In areas where there is a shortage of legally documented Americans,
this "sort of American" quality (with everything there, except paperwork), could be taken advantage of to further American interests worldwide, on the battlefield.

There would also be a push towards increasing administrative positions for people that hold paperwork in America, to command these types of "dreamers."
Micmac

Leominster, MA

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#290
Jun 15, 2013
 

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Hmmmm wrote:
Micmac if it is taking over 15 years for your friend to get a green card he may want to find a better immigration lawyer.
He has had several. When you are here illegally (even after 37 years) it is easy to be taken advantage of. He is unaware of his parents' status and location. When he found out about his his illegal status, he was so angry at them that he left their home and made his own way living under the radar all these years.

“Liberal Teachers ruin Kids”

Since: Mar 09

Paradise Valley Arizona

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#292
Jun 15, 2013
 
The actual cost of illegal immigration could be as much as $400 Billion tax dollars.
We as Americans must just say NO!!!
Sam

Belgium

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#293
Jun 15, 2013
 

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MD Conservative wrote:
<quoted text>
Again wrong Sam. How are they abiding by US Laws when they continue to reside here illegally? Breaking the law. Your logic is severely flawed.
If they truly were sincere they would pack their bags, self-deport, and apply to enter the US legally.
Name one country, other than the US, that allows such a blatant disregard of the law.
I'm from Germany originally (I lived in several countries), US citizen now. My wife Singapore. Would you be as gracious and understanding if we came here illegally? Why is it that I and my wife are expected to obey the laws, yet these Mexicants get a free ride?
We were discussing kids that get taken over and immediately report to recruiters and government agencies.

They get sent away and cannot "enter the US legally" under "normal" circumstances. If they report to the government, they are and will be labeled a criminal and their normal entry rights removed; this is before they've done anything.

They get effectively punished for observing the law.

There is little reason to leave and be restricted by the law when you've done nothing wrong (if you really are aware what will happen to you).

Staying and hiding seems logical when the alternative is being forcefully kept from the people you love.

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

Since: Apr 11

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#294
Jun 15, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
By "sort of American" I mean that they try to obide by laws and have not willingly broken any (their parents did, but they have not). I also mean that they grew up in America and they believe in America and US Law.
This is a trait that people who haven't visited the US regularly or others who haven't been forced into the country likely do not share and US intelligence, history, and faith, is a strong characteristical trait to have when it is known that these people haven't chosen to violate the law.
Under the right circumstances, that might be usable for positions where such traits are necessary, such as "line-of-fire" military situations where blind faith is necessary by the platoon.
In areas where there is a shortage of legally documented Americans,
this "sort of American" quality (with everything there, except paperwork), could be taken advantage of to further American interests worldwide, on the battlefield.
There would also be a push towards increasing administrative positions for people that hold paperwork in America, to command these types of "dreamers."
Nope, not exactly. I know many of these kids who were brought in when they were kids who have reached the "legal" age of driving....and driving they are...without a license or insurance because they have no papers. To make matters worse, they must be emulating their dads, as they also are drinking and driving. You see, they have learned from the example their parents set forth for them. Don't try to sugarcoat it, you can't.
Sam

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#295
Jun 15, 2013
 

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teddyr4me wrote:
<quoted text>Nope, not exactly. I know many of these kids who were brought in when they were kids who have reached the "legal" age of driving....and driving they are...without a license or insurance because they have no papers. To make matters worse, they must be emulating their dads, as they also are drinking and driving. You see, they have learned from the example their parents set forth for them. Don't try to sugarcoat it, you can't.
People shouldn't drink and drive. That includes "Americans."
(and insurance companies should protect the person paying them insurance money IMO)

When undocumented people choose to disobey the law,
they are acting as anyone else choosing to disobey the law.

Targeting only the undocumented drunk drivers,
ignoring documented drunk drivers,
and then telling others that are undocumented,
who don't drink or drive,
that they are guilty of that crime as well,
isn't correct.

I can understand that anyone that experiences a drunk driver who is undocumented, may have extended difficulties with financial security, but that issue lies with the way insurance companies work.

A broke American driver with absolutely nothing (including a license), that is drunk and causes someone injury, is going to provide similar complications.

It is not the fault of all undocumented people that someone drank alcohol and stepped in a car without a license.

“Work hard at work worth doing.”

Since: Apr 11

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
People shouldn't drink and drive. That includes "Americans."
(and insurance companies should protect the person paying them insurance money IMO)
When undocumented people choose to disobey the law,
they are acting as anyone else choosing to disobey the law.
Targeting only the undocumented drunk drivers,
ignoring documented drunk drivers,
and then telling others that are undocumented,
who don't drink or drive,
that they are guilty of that crime as well,
isn't correct.
I can understand that anyone that experiences a drunk driver who is undocumented, may have extended difficulties with financial security, but that issue lies with the way insurance companies work.
A broke American driver with absolutely nothing (including a license), that is drunk and causes someone injury, is going to provide similar complications.
It is not the fault of all undocumented people that someone drank alcohol and stepped in a car without a license.
You are truly laughable.
Austinite

Pflugerville, TX

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#297
Jun 15, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
People shouldn't drink and drive. That includes "Americans."
(and insurance companies should protect the person paying them insurance money IMO)
When undocumented people choose to disobey the law,
they are acting as anyone else choosing to disobey the law.
Targeting only the undocumented drunk drivers,
ignoring documented drunk drivers,
and then telling others that are undocumented,
who don't drink or drive,
that they are guilty of that crime as well,
isn't correct.
I can understand that anyone that experiences a drunk driver who is undocumented, may have extended difficulties with financial security, but that issue lies with the way insurance companies work.
A broke American driver with absolutely nothing (including a license), that is drunk and causes someone injury, is going to provide similar complications.
It is not the fault of all undocumented people that someone drank alcohol and stepped in a car without a license.
In regards to illegal aliens doing it, among other crimes, it is more that they are not supposed to be here in the first place so if law enforcement was allowed to do their jobs by the government then those particular crimes would not have taken place because the illegal alien would not have been here to do it. Of course a legal immigrant or an American does the same thing but the point being people who are here illegally and basically being harbored here are doing it too and it need not be that way.
Case and point. Let us say that an American hits your car and is drunk. No injuries but the drunk goes to jail, is justly punished by prison, fines, and or probation. If they have insurance then you are taken care of. If not then you or your insurance can sue the drunk for your losses. Any personal assetts or wages can be taken through the courts for your loss.
With an illegal alien that is not possible as either they move to another town, back over the border, or since they have no ID they cannot be traced once they are released from jail. ICE is not notified by local law enforcement in most cases, even if that city is not a Sanctuary City. If ICE is notified and deports the illegal alien you are still out of luck, as is your insurance company who will cover your loss, raise your premiums and that of other policy holders. All this for someone who was not supposed to be in the country in the first place.
If the illegal alien is injured then taxpayers pay the bill while if you are injured you get the bill.
Sam

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Jun 15, 2013
 

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Austinite wrote:
<quoted text>
In regards to illegal aliens doing it, among other crimes, it is more that they are not supposed to be here in the first place so if law enforcement was allowed to do their jobs by the government then those particular crimes would not have taken place because the illegal alien would not have been here to do it. Of course a legal immigrant or an American does the same thing but the point being people who are here illegally and basically being harbored here are doing it too and it need not be that way.
Case and point. Let us say that an American hits your car and is drunk. No injuries but the drunk goes to jail, is justly punished by prison, fines, and or probation. If they have insurance then you are taken care of. If not then you or your insurance can sue the drunk for your losses. Any personal assetts or wages can be taken through the courts for your loss.
With an illegal alien that is not possible as either they move to another town, back over the border, or since they have no ID they cannot be traced once they are released from jail. ICE is not notified by local law enforcement in most cases, even if that city is not a Sanctuary City. If ICE is notified and deports the illegal alien you are still out of luck, as is your insurance company who will cover your loss, raise your premiums and that of other policy holders. All this for someone who was not supposed to be in the country in the first place.
If the illegal alien is injured then taxpayers pay the bill while if you are injured you get the bill.
Hi Austinite,

Not all "illegal aliens" are here by choice. Some where taken here when they are little and when they find that out, they are mad and they want to listen to the law.

Those people shouldn't be driving unless the law is fixed.

If you hit an American with no money and no insurance or license,
then you will not get much or any money.

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