Immigration laws tear families apart

May 25, 2013 Full story: Worcester Telegram & Gazette 438

Miguel Leal of Fitchburg and six others had the full attention of President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden in the Oval Office on Tuesday.

Full Story
Just Facts

United States

#253 Jun 13, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Belgium is the capital of Europe;
since you seem so interested in that country,
"maybe you should move there?"
The US has enough hate
The "highly unlikely" denial does occur.
Airport and embassy works are human and have "off" days,
just like the rest of us.
Some of them discriminate against groups of people,
just like you.
Your denial of the existence of law-abiding individuals without paperwork,
and then persecuting them for crimes you've seen others commit, while they are denied paperwork and ridiculed for their misfortune...
...doesn't remove their existence or change the fact that those individuals themselves have not done anything to you.
Your choice of absolute law as being more important than right vs wrong doesn't give you the right to break the law by discriminating against groups of people based on their national identity.
The fact that you continue to maintain that a person that has no paperwork to allow them to be here is law-abiding is your undoing. If they have no means of providing proof that they should be here, they are here or attempting to be here illegally...SUBJECT CLOSED MORON!!
Sam

Belgium

#254 Jun 13, 2013
Janice wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct in stating that the so-called 'dreamers' that you are speaking of have their criminal parents to blame for their predicament. However, they are young enough to bounce back in their own countries of citizenship and should be treated as other illegals here illegally in our country. Perhaps, as a favor and all of the above in consideration, we can possibly remove the 'banned for life' mandate but they, too, deserve to be deported. Just as a person giving a person who goes into a 7-11 to rob it then runs back into that person's car after having robbed...just as that person is guilty by default, so too is the so-called 'dreamer'. Also, if not speaking of the toddlers who can easily return with their illegal parents the fact that those 18 and older have chosen to continue to show disdain for our rule of law and NOT get the ball going with changing their status using our existing immigration laws shows that they do not deserve to have us change our laws on their behalf so they can qualify. This type of 'reform' makes a mockery of our immigration laws and its system.
I'm not talking about people that rob stores and break laws. I'm talking about the ones that immediately GO to the law when they realize their parents brought them illegally, because they HAVEN'T broken any laws and wish to continue living with and for the people they are growing up with.
They are cast out as enemies.
If criminals attack you, tie you up, throw you in a car, and then drive to the store and rob it, then you escape and run to the police, WHY THE HELL would you then throw the escapee in jail and ship them out of the country with criminals.
Shipping them off to a country they don't recognize or even speak the darn language... isn't justice, and banning them from the US for being victimized is what's going on.
Just Facts

United States

#255 Jun 13, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not talking about people that rob stores and break laws. I'm talking about the ones that immediately GO to the law when they realize their parents brought them illegally, because they HAVEN'T broken any laws and wish to continue living with and for the people they are growing up with.
They are cast out as enemies.
If criminals attack you, tie you up, throw you in a car, and then drive to the store and rob it, then you escape and run to the police, WHY THE HELL would you then throw the escapee in jail and ship them out of the country with criminals.
Shipping them off to a country they don't recognize or even speak the darn language... isn't justice, and banning them from the US for being victimized is what's going on.
It is obvious that you will not listen when someone tells you the facts. If their parents brought them here without going through the appropriate process to come here legally, they are here illegally, and the parents are to blame. You choose to disregard and ignore the fact that the parents are doing something illegal and we cannot allow that to continue. Your choice provides a "get out of jail free" card for people to disregard our laws and anchor themselves and their children here...it has to stop.

There are victims all over the world that suffer from all kinds of issues...we can't fix the entire world just because people choose to do things they shouldn't. The logical answer isn't your answer...to ignore what the parents KEEP DOING, and allow them to continue to do what they are doing, the answer is to make them understand that they must follow the laws...if they can't follow the laws, then their children will pay for their crimes.

Let me ask you a question...

If you knew that your child would be deported when it was discovered that they were here illegally, would you decide to go through the correct process to come here legally, or would you put your child at risk for your improper actions?
Sam

Belgium

#256 Jun 13, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
It is obvious that you will not listen when someone tells you the facts. If their parents brought them here without going through the appropriate process to come here legally, they are here illegally, and the parents are to blame. You choose to disregard and ignore the fact that the parents are doing something illegal and we cannot allow that to continue. Your choice provides a "get out of jail free" card for people to disregard our laws and anchor themselves and their children here...it has to stop.
There are victims all over the world that suffer from all kinds of issues...we can't fix the entire world just because people choose to do things they shouldn't. The logical answer isn't your answer...to ignore what the parents KEEP DOING, and allow them to continue to do what they are doing, the answer is to make them understand that they must follow the laws...if they can't follow the laws, then their children will pay for their crimes.
Let me ask you a question...
If you knew that your child would be deported when it was discovered that they were here illegally, would you decide to go through the correct process to come here legally, or would you put your child at risk for your improper actions?
You keep wanting to punish the PARENTS, but you shoot the child.

You tell the child that goes to the police that they deserve to be barred from the US because of their PARENTS.

Also, I do not have children; Nor will I, likely.

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#257 Jun 13, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Also, I do not have children; Nor will I, likely.
Good, the world has enough idiots, we don't need your offspring running around complicating matters.
Sam

Belgium

#258 Jun 13, 2013
FLRetiree wrote:
<quoted text>
Good, the world has enough idiots, we don't need your offspring running around complicating matters.
Hm.
That's a very insightful and topical observation.
Change "your" to "my" and you have my vote.
I choose the opposite of being hateful.^_^
Micmac

Leominster, MA

#259 Jun 13, 2013
I have a friend who is in the final stage of getting his green card - one more hearing, I believe. He was brought here by his parents from Peru when he was 5. He just turned 42. He was unaware he was illegally residing until he tried to apply for his driving permit at 16 and his parents told him the story. He finished high school and learned various trades, having no problem getting odd jobs for cash for a couple of years. In his early twenties he married a legal resident. From then on when he took jobs, he had them pay him in checks made out to his wife so she could pay the taxes and put into Social Security. He still can't get a license, so she has to drive him to his jobs. His children are nearly grown and have real jobs - one at a mall store and the other is starting her own tailoring business.

So, he has been working on getting his green card for over 15 years knowing he could have been deported at any time to a country he never knew. They worked hard - never applied for any assistance - just wanted to be normal Americans.

This is similar to those cases that Sam is making reference to, but I think he is referring to the 'dreamers'- the ones in their late teens and early twenties who are just realizing the impact of their being here illegally. There are many high school grads in this boat that are waiting to find out what's in store for them. They thought they had their wholes lives to look forward to here and now they're facing deportation.

Most undocumenteds in states other than southern border states are not Mexican. It's really easy to enter legally and overstay a visitor or student visa. You don't have to scale a fence to get in.
Jtn

Concord, MA

#260 Jun 13, 2013
Shirley Wagner screwed me
Just Facts

United States

#261 Jun 14, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
You keep wanting to punish the PARENTS, but you shoot the child.
You tell the child that goes to the police that they deserve to be barred from the US because of their PARENTS.
Also, I do not have children; Nor will I, likely.
Actually, I would choose not to have to punish anyone. You continue to advocate that it is OK to break laws just because they don't want to come here legally...I disagree with you and will never agree that it is OK.

Your time would be better spent advocating that these people choose to follow the law...that isn't so difficult a concept. As far as your decision for not having children, that isn't relevent to this discussion.
Just Facts

United States

#262 Jun 14, 2013
Micmac wrote:
I have a friend who is in the final stage of getting his green card - one more hearing, I believe. He was brought here by his parents from Peru when he was 5. He just turned 42. He was unaware he was illegally residing until he tried to apply for his driving permit at 16 and his parents told him the story. He finished high school and learned various trades, having no problem getting odd jobs for cash for a couple of years. In his early twenties he married a legal resident. From then on when he took jobs, he had them pay him in checks made out to his wife so she could pay the taxes and put into Social Security. He still can't get a license, so she has to drive him to his jobs. His children are nearly grown and have real jobs - one at a mall store and the other is starting her own tailoring business.
So, he has been working on getting his green card for over 15 years knowing he could have been deported at any time to a country he never knew. They worked hard - never applied for any assistance - just wanted to be normal Americans.
This is similar to those cases that Sam is making reference to, but I think he is referring to the 'dreamers'- the ones in their late teens and early twenties who are just realizing the impact of their being here illegally. There are many high school grads in this boat that are waiting to find out what's in store for them. They thought they had their wholes lives to look forward to here and now they're facing deportation.
Most undocumenteds in states other than southern border states are not Mexican. It's really easy to enter legally and overstay a visitor or student visa. You don't have to scale a fence to get in.
Micmac,

I think you might find many people that can understand and even empathize with the situation for these "dreamers", but it overlooks the fact that we enable this to happen by educating them and providing various forms of resources without validating their legal status here.

If our country stopped doing that, we wouldn't have the "dreamers" in the first place, what we would have are legal immigrants that went through the process of being here legally and with all of the rights they deserve instead of what this man and his family has gone through.

It really is like any other chouce that you make, and every choice has consequences. The problem with our current system of providing resources to people that are not here legally, is we enable a situation where these people can avoid some of the consequences for a while, some of them for their entire lives, but they must live in an underground form of society...not fair to us and not fair to them either.

These problems wouldn't exist if illegals had no means to wrk or educate themselves here without being legal.
Sam

Belgium

#263 Jun 14, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, I would choose not to have to punish anyone. You continue to advocate that it is OK to break laws just because they don't want to come here legally...I disagree with you and will never agree that it is OK.
Your time would be better spent advocating that these people choose to follow the law...that isn't so difficult a concept. As far as your decision for not having children, that isn't relevent to this discussion.
I'm not advocating that it is OK to break laws because they don't WANT to come here legally. I'm advocating that many undocumented people were "taken" and that when they try to follow the law, they are treated as criminals and banned from normal legal entry rights.
The comment in about children was mainly to reply to "If you knew that your child..."
Reading the follow up comments, not having them grow up as Americans could work if every single person in the country ensured that such things didn't happen, but that's quite totalitarianistic and an unimagineable feat, considering it would only work in a perfect hub/slave empire.

I don't want to further drag down efforts in that direction here, but I do want to clarify that restoring normal entry rights for deported "dreamers" would at least be a start to solving the legal problem.

As it stands, the bar on normal entry rights to these willing "dreamers" works to encourage them to actually break the law, since they are only allowed to return "home" under exclusive circumstances that may be unattainable for them.
El Paredon

Austin, TX

#264 Jun 14, 2013
Yes, an illegal alien brings their small child, teen or whatever. That does not in itself make the minor a criminal but when that minor grows up they engage in criminal acts. Driving with no license, identity theft, paying no taxes on income, no auto insurance, registration, inspection, and so on.
I am willing to excuse their being brought here through no choice of their own but the criminal choices they make later in their lives are not excuseable.
Sam

Belgium

#265 Jun 14, 2013
El Paredon wrote:
Yes, an illegal alien brings their small child, teen or whatever. That does not in itself make the minor a criminal but when that minor grows up they engage in criminal acts. Driving with no license, identity theft, paying no taxes on income, no auto insurance, registration, inspection, and so on.
I am willing to excuse their being brought here through no choice of their own but the criminal choices they make later in their lives are not excuseable.
And that might be fair, but currently they are not excused.

Before they drive without a license, commit identify theft, etc etc, they are targeted as illegal criminals and banned.

This is when they go to their local government office or military recruiter. They don't get enlisted, they don't get paperwork done for them to get them started, they get instructed to report to ICE, who then makes sure they are removed from the country and then they face a denial of normal entry.

These same people are grouped with people those willingly breaking laws around the US and their desire to be lawful goes unrecognized.

Later, some of them probably give up and actually start breaking select national laws, since the law won't hear them to begin with.
NYM8387

United States

#266 Jun 14, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
And that might be fair, but currently they are not excused.
Before they drive without a license, commit identify theft, etc etc, they are targeted as illegal criminals and banned.
This is when they go to their local government office or military recruiter. They don't get enlisted, they don't get paperwork done for them to get them started, they get instructed to report to ICE, who then makes sure they are removed from the country and then they face a denial of normal entry.
These same people are grouped with people those willingly breaking laws around the US and their desire to be lawful goes unrecognized.
Later, some of them probably give up and actually start breaking select national laws, since the law won't hear them to begin with.
Unless they have use thier time to become scientists or heart surgeons then there's nothing the law needs to hear,sorry,kill your parents if you want and good bye
Just Facts

United States

#267 Jun 14, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
And that might be fair, but currently they are not excused.
Before they drive without a license, commit identify theft, etc etc, they are targeted as illegal criminals and banned.
This is when they go to their local government office or military recruiter. They don't get enlisted, they don't get paperwork done for them to get them started, they get instructed to report to ICE, who then makes sure they are removed from the country and then they face a denial of normal entry.
These same people are grouped with people those willingly breaking laws around the US and their desire to be lawful goes unrecognized.
Later, some of them probably give up and actually start breaking select national laws, since the law won't hear them to begin with.
I guess you will continue to beat that dead drum, but fail to answer the most important questions...

Who created the situation with these children being here illegally to start with? Why should we as a nation become responsible for their parents actions? If you do something to cause your child to be in an unlawful situation, does that absolve you of that responsibility and move the responsibility to someone elses shoulders?
Sam

Belgium

#268 Jun 14, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you will continue to beat that dead drum, but fail to answer the most important questions...
Who created the situation with these children being here illegally to start with? Why should we as a nation become responsible for their parents actions? If you do something to cause your child to be in an unlawful situation, does that absolve you of that responsibility and move the responsibility to someone elses shoulders?
You are again targeting the parents as if they should be adopted and coupling them with the victim. Their case is unique and not the same as the child (they are not one person).

I say the parents should be handled as individuals and the "taken" should be handled as individuals.

The parent case should be reviewed and bars/limitations/removal etc placed upon them where applicable.

The "taken" case should be reviewed and when applicable, instruction given before removal, where normal rights remain.

This way, the original offender is dealt with and the presence of both is corrected.

Should the "taken" individual then choose to enter the US under normal conditions, then that is their right as any other person.

Their obeying the law does not reward the parent, who would have limitations placed upon them where applicable.
Just Facts

United States

#270 Jun 14, 2013
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
You are again targeting the parents as if they should be adopted and coupling them with the victim. Their case is unique and not the same as the child (they are not one person).
I say the parents should be handled as individuals and the "taken" should be handled as individuals.
The parent case should be reviewed and bars/limitations/removal etc placed upon them where applicable.
The "taken" case should be reviewed and when applicable, instruction given before removal, where normal rights remain.
This way, the original offender is dealt with and the presence of both is corrected.
Should the "taken" individual then choose to enter the US under normal conditions, then that is their right as any other person.
Their obeying the law does not reward the parent, who would have limitations placed upon them where applicable.
Sam,

If what you advocate is that a child brought into the country unlawfully be deported but considered for re-admittance if they were young enough to be able to prove they had no choice, then I would agree with you.

If you advocate that these "dreamers" should be granted some type of provision to be allowed to remain here illegally, I disagree with you. They should be deported and be made to prove that they came to the authorities as soon as they were able to ask that their situation be reconciled because they previously had no choice.
Just Facts

United States

#271 Jun 14, 2013
and in all cases, the parents should be deported for breaking the law.
ima- Ilis Myka Ashanti

El Paso, TX

#273 Jun 14, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
It is obvious that you will not listen when someone tells you the facts. If their parents brought them here without going through the appropriate process to come here legally, they are here illegally, and the parents are to blame. You choose to disregard and ignore the fact that the parents are doing something illegal and we cannot allow that to continue. Your choice provides a "get out of jail free" card for people to disregard our laws and anchor themselves and their children here...it has to stop.
There are victims all over the world that suffer from all kinds of issues...we can't fix the entire world just because people choose to do things they shouldn't. The logical answer isn't your answer...to ignore what the parents KEEP DOING, and allow them to continue to do what they are doing, the answer is to make them understand that they must follow the laws...if they can't follow the laws, then their children will pay for their crimes.
Let me ask you a question...
If you knew that your child would be deported when it was discovered that they were here illegally, would you decide to go through the correct process to come here legally, or would you put your child at risk for your improper actions?
Justly right!
ima- Ilis Myka Ashanti

El Paso, TX

#274 Jun 14, 2013
Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess you will continue to beat that dead drum, but fail to answer the most important questions...
Who created the situation with these children being here illegally to start with? Why should we as a nation become responsible for their parents actions? If you do something to cause your child to be in an unlawful situation, does that absolve you of that responsibility and move the responsibility to someone elses shoulders?
Right on!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Fitchburg Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Lynch request for court case to be brought forw... (Jul '13) 41 min Running out of Time 53
Charlie Baker for governor 51 min Bob t 5
Dan Kirouac returns to Townsend, MA Sun Jeremiah 2
Main street proposal will set Fitchburg back 40... Sun Lynch for Mayor 17
Wong takes chiefs job Sun Jnt 5
MA Who do you support for Governor in Massachusett... (Oct '10) Sun Malden Resident 1,167
Woman's husband likes to wear pantyhose - Senti... (Jul '08) Sep 26 Keeping an Open Mind 47

Fitchburg News Video

Fitchburg Dating

more search filters

less search filters

Fitchburg Jobs

Fitchburg People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

Fitchburg News, Events & Info

Click for news, events and info in Fitchburg

Personal Finance

Mortgages [ See current mortgage rates ]