Immigration laws tear families apart

May 25, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Worcester Telegram & Gazette

Miguel Leal of Fitchburg and six others had the full attention of President Barack Obama and Vice President Joseph Biden in the Oval Office on Tuesday.

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Right on

Leominster, MA

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#232
Jun 11, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not sure you read the last comment, or prior citations.
Infants and many toddlers cannot yet regard "laws," (consider and understand their meanings and decide on appropriate actions).
They are not "disregarding" (or doing anything other than existing, really) a law that says they cannot stay more than XX days in the US.
Furthermore, I've just pointed out that the federal agent in some cases is disregarding the law, unjustly causing extreme hardships upon their victim.
These people have no "Civil court of the world" to report to and efforts to fight such actions may result in years and years of being subjected to unlawful treatment, through the continued denial of services for the well-meaning individual.
When law becomes more important than right or wrong,
and not the other way around,
we destroy the whole notion of what is generally regarded as humanity.
You are right. Illegal infants and todlers don't know where they are living so what's the problem with sending them back to their country of origin with their criminal parents?
Right on

Leominster, MA

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#233
Jun 11, 2013
 

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Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, yes. We have one of the largest hospitals in the state here in Danbury, Ct..
We also, for several years, had the highest per capita population of illegal aliens in the country.
My daughter hurt herself playing field hockey...around 8:30 pm on a Thursday and after watching the injured limb continue to swell and turn some interesting red, blue and purple colors, I decided to go to the ER.
It's a very large ER, with two sections. One for injuries, one for illnesses which might be contagious, like flus or noro viruses.
We walked in and came to a screeching halt. Standing room only. We turned around and walked out, then had to drive three towns to the north for another hospital.
Yeah it's sad for the hospitals. They know they are getting false information but they have to treat everyone.

Doctor : So what seems to be the problem with Tiger Lebron Beyonce perez junior?

Mother : Well he was sitting on the couch having lunch when he got a stomach ache.(translated).

Doctor : What did he have for lunch?

Mother : The usual 3 Big Macs 2 bags of Doritos and a litre of cola. Oh yeah and for a treat I gave him a couple snickers bars for a desert.

Doctor : Well your son is only 8 years old and weighs 317 lbs. so I think we see the problem here.

Mother : Oh no do you think he might be allergic to chocolate?
Sam

Belgium

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#234
Jun 11, 2013
 

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Right on wrote:
<quoted text>You are right. Illegal infants and todlers don't know where they are living so what's the problem with sending them back to their country of origin with their criminal parents?
If they stayed infants, probably nothing. Order would be restored. However, they aren't always found and end up growing up as Americans;
Americans that get shipped off to a country they aren't familiar with, for nothing they've done up to that point; pretty much locked away from all the family and friends they came to know and cherish while growing up. Their right to even come back and visit is even taken away from them. They never decided to break any laws and trusted their government and that's what they get in return; a criminalized life in what would be a foreign country to them, without even the courtesy of being able to see their friends or loved ones back home.
Sam

Belgium

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#235
Jun 11, 2013
 
Right on wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah it's sad for the hospitals. They know they are getting false information but they have to treat everyone.
Doctor : So what seems to be the problem with Tiger Lebron Beyonce perez junior?
Mother : Well he was sitting on the couch having lunch when he got a stomach ache.(translated).
Doctor : What did he have for lunch?
Mother : The usual 3 Big Macs 2 bags of Doritos and a litre of cola. Oh yeah and for a treat I gave him a couple snickers bars for a desert.
Doctor : Well your son is only 8 years old and weighs 317 lbs. so I think we see the problem here.
Mother : Oh no do you think he might be allergic to chocolate?
The bit about false information doesn't match the rest, but that's actually pretty funny.
Just Facts

Fairport, NY

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#236
Jun 11, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
If they stayed infants, probably nothing. Order would be restored. However, they aren't always found and end up growing up as Americans;
Americans that get shipped off to a country they aren't familiar with, for nothing they've done up to that point; pretty much locked away from all the family and friends they came to know and cherish while growing up. Their right to even come back and visit is even taken away from them. They never decided to break any laws and trusted their government and that's what they get in return; a criminalized life in what would be a foreign country to them, without even the courtesy of being able to see their friends or loved ones back home.
Sam,

There really is a very easy answer for all of this, but you choose to ignore it.

If a person (no matter the age)isn't born here, and they do not come into the country using our current immigration process, they are here illegally and should be deported.

They should not receive ANY resources of any kind wihtin our country, and THAT IS THE PROBLEM. We have allowed people that come here illegally a means for doing so, and it needs to stop.

Everything else you bring up is just your way of trying to ignore the base problem. If we didn't provide any resources to those parents that come here without floowing our laws, they wouldn't have a reason for coming here to begin with and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Sam

Belgium

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#237
Jun 11, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Sam,
There really is a very easy answer for all of this, but you choose to ignore it.
If a person (no matter the age)isn't born here, and they do not come into the country using our current immigration process, they are here illegally and should be deported.
They should not receive ANY resources of any kind wihtin our country, and THAT IS THE PROBLEM. We have allowed people that come here illegally a means for doing so, and it needs to stop.
Everything else you bring up is just your way of trying to ignore the base problem. If we didn't provide any resources to those parents that come here without floowing our laws, they wouldn't have a reason for coming here to begin with and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
You missed the part about discrimination by federal representatives in US embassies. Border Patrol officers also take part.

They degrade people's nationality and sometimes strip away rights or freedoms for their own beliefs, since they are in the position to do so.

People show up lawfully in the US, and are blocked at the airport because somebody working in those federal security institutions makes a mistake or decides to act on such discrimination.

Now if that happened to powerful people, those federal staff would hear about it, but for everday people, they suddenly lose the right to enter the US and have little or no way of protesting.

There is no civil world court to bring up misunderstandings like this and if there is, I wonder if it isn't flooded with a backorder of filings that would render the service mute to the person protesting.

Your everyday person might have people they actually have feelings for stateside, you know. And they can't reach them anymore. Fight as they like, their options have been removed through no fault of their own.

This is a problem that won't be solved by ousting everyone, because the people that enter illegally in that case aren't the ones that acted wrongly to begin with. They might decide that the people stateside are more important to them than spending the rest of their life trying to find a way to undo a clerical error or fight out a discriminatory act.
Lets all move

Leominster, MA

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#238
Jun 11, 2013
 

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So Sam you believe every family has the right to move to any country they want, not pay taxes or become a citizen and that country has to pay for everything for them? Yippeee pack up the kids honey we're moving to the Bahamas.
Sam

Belgium

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#239
Jun 11, 2013
 
Lets all move wrote:
So Sam you believe every family has the right to move to any country they want, not pay taxes or become a citizen and that country has to pay for everything for them? Yippeee pack up the kids honey we're moving to the Bahamas.
That has nothing to do with unlawful acts made by federal representatives or any other claim I have made.

If I were to act like you, then I might as well say "So you believe in supporting drunk driving and acts of terrorism against people based on your view of who they are. Yippeee lets all find us some people that have one thing in common with someone we don't like and have our way with them."
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

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#240
Jun 12, 2013
 
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
"We donít define people as illegal and we donít classify peopleís entire being based on one action."
"The phrase is linguistically illogical: it defines people as illegal rather than their actions."
The child has taken no action against the law, has upon being informed of their situation, gone to the law, yet is punished by the law for being an "illegal," upon doing so.
You can keep beating this drum, but it's falling on deaf ears.

Our immigration system, contrary to popular vernacular, isn't a failed system. In fact, it works just fine when it's enforced.

Tens of thousands of deportation cases are currently on hold, bogged down in the system, stalled under the heading of "Hardship".

Hardship includes immediate and sometimes less immediate family members of any American born child commonly referred to as an anchor baby. You and many others are advocating for hardship to apply to any otherwise illegal alien brought here as a child through no will of their own.

There are so many problems with this that it's difficult to know where to begin. Starting with the fact that so many of these individuals have no paper trail, that so many are here under false names or have been living under false, and often multiple identities. Verifying the age of entry would be, in many cases, virtually impossible, which opens the door for fraud. We already have more than enough of that.

Furthermore, it could basically halt the deportation of almost anyone who has a child living in the U.S..

Which leads to yet another problem. The highest rate of out of wedlock births is among illegal aliens, largely because the single parent status avails more government aid and support. Many mothers refuse to name the sire of their child/children and some states have recently tried to initiate changes in policy that would require that information before benefits can be received...so far, without success.

Lastly, I spent my dinner hour at work this evening trying to research these cases you've spoken of on this thread. These children being deported and veterans being deported. Our government doesn't disclose this information, and while I found articles and sites that discuss this, the numbers are all over the place.

I created a list of sources for this, which I will spend yet more time researching, fully expecting to find a wide range of pro immigration groups, which have been known to "fluff", or more plainly put, to push propaganda.

Do you have any verifiable links to share?
Sam

Belgium

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#242
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Chicopee wrote:
<quoted text>
You can keep beating this drum, but it's falling on deaf ears.
Our immigration system, contrary to popular vernacular, isn't a failed system. In fact, it works just fine when it's enforced.
Tens of thousands of deportation cases are currently on hold, bogged down in the system, stalled under the heading of "Hardship".
Hardship includes immediate and sometimes less immediate family members of any American born child commonly referred to as an anchor baby. You and many others are advocating for hardship to apply to any otherwise illegal alien brought here as a child through no will of their own.
There are so many problems with this that it's difficult to know where to begin. Starting with the fact that so many of these individuals have no paper trail, that so many are here under false names or have been living under false, and often multiple identities. Verifying the age of entry would be, in many cases, virtually impossible, which opens the door for fraud. We already have more than enough of that.
Furthermore, it could basically halt the deportation of almost anyone who has a child living in the U.S..
Which leads to yet another problem. The highest rate of out of wedlock births is among illegal aliens, largely because the single parent status avails more government aid and support. Many mothers refuse to name the sire of their child/children and some states have recently tried to initiate changes in policy that would require that information before benefits can be received...so far, without success.
Lastly, I spent my dinner hour at work this evening trying to research these cases you've spoken of on this thread. These children being deported and veterans being deported. Our government doesn't disclose this information, and while I found articles and sites that discuss this, the numbers are all over the place.
I created a list of sources for this, which I will spend yet more time researching, fully expecting to find a wide range of pro immigration groups, which have been known to "fluff", or more plainly put, to push propaganda.
Do you have any verifiable links to share?
It does work fine when the people enforcing it don't act on personal reserve or make any sort of human error. However, that's just not the case in day to day operations. Many commentators here are advocating reinforcement of such errors and neglect. It is my assumption that these are good people, which is why the drums are beating (for them).
The fraud is often with due cause, where experience has taught that honesty, law-abiding quality, and civility result in those same deaf ears beating them down and away.

It would make sense for cases to be kept internal,
to prevent any of it from being used against the offenders.

Limited "lawful" data in the hands of those forces carrying out these actions prevents severe amounts of consequential action.

It is my understanding that the majority of these current hostile incidents in the US itself are occurring in Arizona, while reinforced action occurs outside of the country at an embassy, preventing much headway from being made into correcting the situation.

If you wish to look into an unjust case, for a better understanding of my position, and likely several other speakers on the defense front, then I can patch you through to a more private communication method, where I can share personal experience with you.

Since: Apr 13

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#243
Jun 12, 2013
 

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These pieces of garbage are criminals. Don't like the word illegal? Fine, how about criminals. They are criminals, here breaking our laws around immigration. Just because you and they don't like certain laws doesn't excuse the fact that they are criminals.

Sam, you should move to a country that alligns better with your ideals. Obviously the USA is falling short in your eyes. Farewell and have a great life. Mexico welcomes you with open arms.
Sam

Belgium

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#244
Jun 12, 2013
 

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FLRetiree wrote:
These pieces of garbage are criminals. Don't like the word illegal? Fine, how about criminals. They are criminals, here breaking our laws around immigration. Just because you and they don't like certain laws doesn't excuse the fact that they are criminals.
Sam, you should move to a country that alligns better with your ideals. Obviously the USA is falling short in your eyes. Farewell and have a great life. Mexico welcomes you with open arms.
Humans are not garbage and targeting someone by their national identity is a hate crime, which is illegal in the US. Not all of these people are here because they chose to break a law, and some of the ones that are have had crimes committed against them by us federal staff, preventing them from entering legally.
Just Facts

Fairport, NY

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#245
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Sam,

The United States has laws for who can apply to come here to live. You don't have to agree with them, but those laws exist in an attempt at putting some measure of control on how many and what types of people come here. We have a pretty nice country here and would like to keep it that way, so we have laws. You can thank the terrorists involved in 9/11 for making those laws tighter than they were before and for creating more obstacles, checks and balances on who is allowed to come here.

My spouse is from a foreign country and we had to go through the process in her being able to come here and become a US citizen, so I know what the process is...at least for a marriage VISA. It's a hassle and not very pleasant, but it can be done for people that are OK to let in.

If you have a situation where, for whatever reason, you can't come here...thats your problem and your continued whining about it, claiming its unfair will fall on deaf ears.

Our immigration laws require that you have an appropriate reason for coming here...education, work, of family are just a few qualified reasons, but you won't be accepted if you are a criminal...we already have our fair share of them, and many of them came here illegally, so we need to work on getting rid of them.

If your issues are with the authorities and laws in Belgium, once again, that is your problem. We are not reading about people illegally trying to get into Belgium...why is that? Where the hell is Belgium anyway?

You continue to whine about federal staff committing crimes against people that show up here to enter legally...if you have a properly issued VISA to come here, I would expect it unlikely that you would be denied admittance for no reason.

and that isn't the point of this threaded discussion anyway.

Since: Apr 13

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#246
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Humans are not garbage and targeting someone by their national identity is a hate crime, which is illegal in the US. Not all of these people are here because they chose to break a law, and some of the ones that are have had crimes committed against them by us federal staff, preventing them from entering legally.
Sorry dumb dumb, you do not get to redefine what a hate crime is. Your definition is incorrect. Now go wrap your lips around a tailpipe and inhale deeply.
Sam

Tempe, AZ

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#247
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Just Facts wrote:
Sam,
The United States has laws for who can apply to come here to live. You don't have to agree with them, but those laws exist in an attempt at putting some measure of control on how many and what types of people come here. We have a pretty nice country here and would like to keep it that way, so we have laws. You can thank the terrorists involved in 9/11 for making those laws tighter than they were before and for creating more obstacles, checks and balances on who is allowed to come here.
My spouse is from a foreign country and we had to go through the process in her being able to come here and become a US citizen, so I know what the process is...at least for a marriage VISA. It's a hassle and not very pleasant, but it can be done for people that are OK to let in.
If you have a situation where, for whatever reason, you can't come here...thats your problem and your continued whining about it, claiming its unfair will fall on deaf ears.
Our immigration laws require that you have an appropriate reason for coming here...education, work, of family are just a few qualified reasons, but you won't be accepted if you are a criminal...we already have our fair share of them, and many of them came here illegally, so we need to work on getting rid of them.
If your issues are with the authorities and laws in Belgium, once again, that is your problem. We are not reading about people illegally trying to get into Belgium...why is that? Where the hell is Belgium anyway?
You continue to whine about federal staff committing crimes against people that show up here to enter legally...if you have a properly issued VISA to come here, I would expect it unlikely that you would be denied admittance for no reason.
and that isn't the point of this threaded discussion anyway.
Belgium is the capital of Europe;
since you seem so interested in that country,
"maybe you should move there?"
The US has enough hate
The "highly unlikely" denial does occur.
Airport and embassy works are human and have "off" days,
just like the rest of us.
Some of them discriminate against groups of people,
just like you.
Your denial of the existence of law-abiding individuals without paperwork,
and then persecuting them for crimes you've seen others commit, while they are denied paperwork and ridiculed for their misfortune...
...doesn't remove their existence or change the fact that those individuals themselves have not done anything to you.

Your choice of absolute law as being more important than right vs wrong doesn't give you the right to break the law by discriminating against groups of people based on their national identity.
NYM8387

United States

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#248
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Belgium is the capital of Europe;
since you seem so interested in that country,
"maybe you should move there?"
The US has enough hate
The "highly unlikely" denial does occur.
Airport and embassy works are human and have "off" days,
just like the rest of us.
Some of them discriminate against groups of people,
just like you.
Your denial of the existence of law-abiding individuals without paperwork,
and then persecuting them for crimes you've seen others commit, while they are denied paperwork and ridiculed for their misfortune...
...doesn't remove their existence or change the fact that those individuals themselves have not done anything to you.
Your choice of absolute law as being more important than right vs wrong doesn't give you the right to break the law by discriminating against groups of people based on their national identity.
Sam,you're the reason why birthright citizenship must be made clear that it should only apply to the children of Americans.Your parents broke the law and no matter how much you try to justify it,they don't belong here,it's the law.
Chicopee

Danbury, CT

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#249
Jun 12, 2013
 
Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
Belgium is the capital of Europe;
since you seem so interested in that country,
"maybe you should move there?"
The US has enough hate
The "highly unlikely" denial does occur.
Airport and embassy works are human and have "off" days,
just like the rest of us.
Some of them discriminate against groups of people,
just like you.
Your denial of the existence of law-abiding individuals without paperwork,
and then persecuting them for crimes you've seen others commit, while they are denied paperwork and ridiculed for their misfortune...
...doesn't remove their existence or change the fact that those individuals themselves have not done anything to you.
Your choice of absolute law as being more important than right vs wrong doesn't give you the right to break the law by discriminating against groups of people based on their national identity.
Laws are laws, Sam. We can't cherry pick which ones we want to uphold and those which we want to ignore.

Anyone residing in the country without proper paperwork is in violation of laws. In order to remain here and survive or prosper, they will necessarily violate even more laws.

We are already in a situation in which groups based on their national identity openly and freely violate a variety of laws. They openly work in violation of immigration, labor and tax laws. Motor vehicle laws, insurance laws and drunk driving laws are openly and frequently disregarded. Laws which legal citizens, both natural born and legal immigrants, are held to account for.

And the laws in place to protect all workers, for both safety and against discrimination, are regularly broken, but the law abiding workers have no legal recourse when violations are due to people based on their national identities, even though there are laws that provide for that legal recourse.

People are maimed, injured and killed with frightening regularity on our nations roads and highways by this same group to whom laws don't apply. Too many, like my sister in law, find themselves both physically and financially ruined, and completely without recourse or protection because the person who caused this lives here outside the law.

He received free medical treatment under an assumed name...but no one can ask him for ID at the hospital, where he conveniently forgot how to speak English. He was arrested, fingerprinted and processed under an assumed name, he had plenty of cash to pay his bail and then he disappeared.

There's plenty of discrimination, all right, but all too often, it's in favor of people based on their national identity. And it's not occasional, it's systematic.
Janice

Chula Vista, CA

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#250
Jun 12, 2013
 
Civil Servant Supporter wrote:
<quoted text> Hey, 10%er, Jesus was a liberal: http://www.russellmoore.com/2011/06/17/immigr...
...and liberals were originally Republicans.
Janice

Chula Vista, CA

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#251
Jun 12, 2013
 

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teddyr4me wrote:
<quoted text>I was taught that we are to obey the laws of God as well as those of man. "Be subject for the Lordís sake to every human institution, whether it be to the emperor as supreme, or to governors as sent by him to punish those who do evil and to praise those who do good. For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God" (1 Peter 2:13Ė16).
Ignoring laws, stealing and/or forging documents to work jobs meant for legal citizens is not going to endear these people to those Americans who are out of work, or to those Americans who try to live a life providing for their families. When we have less to give to our families so that illegals can have more, something is totally wrong with this picture. Why, when this country sends aid, illegals send billions yearly in remittances, why then are these countries sitll so backward, forcing these people to come here? It's past time to lock the doors and send them home. The inn is tapped out.
Oh so well put.
Janice

Chula Vista, CA

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#252
Jun 12, 2013
 

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Sam wrote:
<quoted text>
If they stayed infants, probably nothing. Order would be restored. However, they aren't always found and end up growing up as Americans;
Americans that get shipped off to a country they aren't familiar with, for nothing they've done up to that point; pretty much locked away from all the family and friends they came to know and cherish while growing up. Their right to even come back and visit is even taken away from them. They never decided to break any laws and trusted their government and that's what they get in return; a criminalized life in what would be a foreign country to them, without even the courtesy of being able to see their friends or loved ones back home.
You are correct in stating that the so-called 'dreamers' that you are speaking of have their criminal parents to blame for their predicament. However, they are young enough to bounce back in their own countries of citizenship and should be treated as other illegals here illegally in our country. Perhaps, as a favor and all of the above in consideration, we can possibly remove the 'banned for life' mandate but they, too, deserve to be deported. Just as a person giving a person who goes into a 7-11 to rob it then runs back into that person's car after having robbed...just as that person is guilty by default, so too is the so-called 'dreamer'. Also, if not speaking of the toddlers who can easily return with their illegal parents the fact that those 18 and older have chosen to continue to show disdain for our rule of law and NOT get the ball going with changing their status using our existing immigration laws shows that they do not deserve to have us change our laws on their behalf so they can qualify. This type of 'reform' makes a mockery of our immigration laws and its system.

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