Who do you support for Governor in Oh...
Canton

Canton, OH

#27343 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
That's all nice except for one problem: It's the Clinics CEO, a very liberal guy who said the layoffs were because of Commie Care:
"During a regularly scheduled quarterly meeting, Cleveland Clinic President and Chief Executive Dr. Toby Cosgrove told employees about plans to reduce operating expenses by about 6 percent, and cited the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare, as one of the reasons for the cuts."
"To prepare for health care reform, Cleveland Clinic is transforming the way care is delivered to patients," the Clinic's representatives said in a statement. "Over the past several years, we have had an ongoing focus on driving efficiencies, lowering costs, reducing duplication in services and enhancing quality to make health care affordable to patients."
An early retirement package will be offered to about 3,000 employees by late October, Sheil told the Beacon Journal. Any possible layoffs will be considered after January, she added.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/09/1...
Bogus propaganda from a right wing propaganda website. Already proven to be a lie. Already left behind like all the other "scandals" you corporate fetch boys get spoon fed in your Tea Bagger emails.
Observer

United States

#27344 Mar 30, 2014
Do we really spend all of this money on health and healthcare? Or is the vast majority of it being spent on sickness? Most people going in and out of hospitals, doctor offices and drug stores do not look healthy to me, they look sick...really sick most of the time. Of course there are those with injuries but that's not where the money is because it's a temporary condition. They like sickness and disease because they like life long chronic and manageable conditions. It's called greed and it's at the expense of people suffering for extended periods, often the remainder of their lives. And now it has grown to such a monster that it's financially breaking America. What would happen if people started taking care of themselves?

The ones that look healthy are the ones pushing the services in my observation...financially healthy that is!

I guess "SickCare" doesn't sound as glamorous and we might not fall for all the bs if it were called for what it really is.
Old Guy

Mason, OH

#27345 Mar 30, 2014
Pops wrote:
<quoted text> All seem to be true. Could a variable be respect? Maybe competence? Maybe even international experience.
There is clearly a difference here somewhere that has allowed or dictated yesteryear & today.
I think that Putin was able to use both G.W. Bush's Christianity and his belief in his "gut feelings" about people to win him over. He told Bush a story about retrieving a Greek Orthodox cross from his family home, and I think that touched George. But, as some wag remarked at the time, if Bush had been Jewish, it would have been a Star of David. Bush got played by Putin, and I think he eventually came to realize that.

"Bush bonded deeply with Putin at their first meeting in June 2001, after the two men discussed a family cross that Putin had had blessed in Israel. That deeply impressed Bush, who told reporters that he had gotten "a sense of his soul." Putin's quick offer of support after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks then cemented the relationship.

A year ago, when Putin visited Camp David, Bush said he respected "President Putin's vision for Russia ... a country in which democracy and freedom and rule of law thrive." Shortly after Bush made that statement, Putin abruptly jailed Russian oil tycoon Mikhail Khodorkovsky and orchestrated parliamentary elections derided by European monitors as unfair."

"On Sunday, President Bush visited the Russian Embassy to pay his respects to the victims of last week's terrorist attack at a Russian school and to express his admiration of Russian President Vladimir Putin. "Please pass on my very best wishes to President Vladimir Putin, a man who I admire," Bush told the Russian ambassador.

The next day, Putin announced plans that would significantly bolster his power by ending the popular election of governors and independent lawmakers."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles...
booshbots payback

Akron, OH

#27346 Mar 30, 2014
boosh got played by halliburton & dirty dickcheney!
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27347 Mar 30, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
Bogus propaganda from a right wing propaganda website. Already proven to be a lie. Already left behind like all the other "scandals" you corporate fetch boys get spoon fed in your Tea Bagger emails.
So US news, the Beacon and Fox are all propaganda sites huh? And then you come back with media matters as if it were non-bias?

This isn't April Fools day yet Canton unless you consider the weather we've been having. You're going to have to wait a few more days.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27348 Mar 30, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
You have confused Republicans for the religious based nutball Conservatives that they are trying to shrug off right now. Let's ask Pat Buchanan how he feels about Vlad Putin. I'm sure his views are polar opposite from yours. Now go tell yourself that snow on one day and high fifties on the next is normal weather.
I bet when you see all those "H"s and "L"s on the weather map, you think they represent Hispanics and Lesbians. Sorry Canton, you're no weather man and never will be. As for Buchanan, we don't even consider him anymore, actually, we never did. He didn't stand a chance as our presidential nominee.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27349 Mar 30, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, none of your response addresses why our costs are so much greater than the rest of the world, and why that divergence started in 1980. Don't you find that curious?
I just gave you hundreds of billions of reasons why our healthcare costs are so high. How much do you think we are ripping off hospitals and doctors with our government patients alone?

This is not to mention one of our largest expenditures in the US is hospital care. The US pays their doctors, surgeons and staff more than just about anywhere else in the world. Nobody works for free.

http://www.aetna.com/health-reform-connection...
Old Guy

Mason, OH

#27350 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I just gave you hundreds of billions of reasons why our healthcare costs are so high. How much do you think we are ripping off hospitals and doctors with our government patients alone?
This is not to mention one of our largest expenditures in the US is hospital care. The US pays their doctors, surgeons and staff more than just about anywhere else in the world. Nobody works for free.
You are right that our doctors are paid more. We also pay more for operations and for our medicine. How do other countries address this problem?

"...many OECD countries use strong regulation to set prices that hospitals can charge for different services, and some of them even set budgets for how much hospitals can spend. The quality of care delivered in hospitals in these countries are comparable to that in the U.S., and universities are still able to attract the best students to medicine."

"It is difficult to untangle precisely why prices are higher in the U.S., but two things are apparent: U.S. physicians get higher incomes than in other countries and the U.S. uses more expensive diagnostic procedures. More generally, with so many different kinds of insurance, no one organization has a strong incentive to cut out wasteful practices and ensure that all Americans get value for the very high levels of expenditure incurred when they are sick."

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-co...

I know you hate government regulation, but the countries that regulate healthcare costs and have single payer systems seem to get equivalent service for much less money.
Observer

United States

#27351 Mar 30, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right that our doctors are paid more. We also pay more for operations and for our medicine. How do other countries address this problem?.
High demand creates high prices. America is sick and getting sicker everyday which means drug companies and the like are getting wealthy. It's a very corrupt system in its current state.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27352 Mar 30, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right that our doctors are paid more. We also pay more for operations and for our medicine. How do other countries address this problem?
"...many OECD countries use strong regulation to set prices that hospitals can charge for different services, and some of them even set budgets for how much hospitals can spend. The quality of care delivered in hospitals in these countries are comparable to that in the U.S., and universities are still able to attract the best students to medicine."
"It is difficult to untangle precisely why prices are higher in the U.S., but two things are apparent: U.S. physicians get higher incomes than in other countries and the U.S. uses more expensive diagnostic procedures. More generally, with so many different kinds of insurance, no one organization has a strong incentive to cut out wasteful practices and ensure that all Americans get value for the very high levels of expenditure incurred when they are sick."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-co...
I know you hate government regulation, but the countries that regulate healthcare costs and have single payer systems seem to get equivalent service for much less money.
Well I have an extensive answer for all this, so I may post twice. Let me start off with a personal story:

Back in the early 80's when I was delivering and repairing home medical equipment, our company decided to open up a pharmacy. It wasn't a public pharmacy like Drug Mart or anything like that, it was more like a room where a pharmacist could mix prescriptions for our home patents.

After our Monday morning meeting, we all ran to the coffee pot and extended our own meeting. At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the topic for our coffee meeting.

As we discussed the situation, I took note of our newest employee--our pharmacist. She seemed to get angry to the point her face was turning red, but she didn't say a thing.

Finally in haste, she abruptly turned her back and quickly walked away. The RN looked at me as if to say "WTF did we say??"

The coffee crowd broke up and everybody went back to work except me. I was always the last to leave. LOL. At that point, the pharmacist returned. In her hand she had her Pharmacy Magazine. Still mad as hell, she shoved the magazine in my belly and told me to read the section of the article that she highlighted. The article stated (at the time) that the average pharmacist made about $63,000 per year in the US. A UPS package driver made about $57,000 per year.

She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? For what? To make five grand more than a UPS driver? And their union has the nerve to go on strike??? I should be on strike. If I were a young girl today having this information, I sure as hell wouldn't be here putting this pharmacy together. I would be there (pointing to the overhead door where UPS dropped off) delivering your packages."

This is what's known as the Domino Effect that impacted our healthcare professionals. You can't ask a pharmacist to go through all that school and expense to make nearly the same amount as a UPS worker.
Canton

Canton, OH

#27353 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet when you see all those "H"s and "L"s on the weather map, you think they represent Hispanics and Lesbians. Sorry Canton, you're no weather man and never will be. As for Buchanan, we don't even consider him anymore, actually, we never did. He didn't stand a chance as our presidential nominee.
I am certainly no more of a weatherman than you are. That's why I am smart enough to go with the 97% of the experts on climate science. Now let's hear why you choose the 3%, with most of whom work directly for the energy industry. Go ahead and explain why you think you know better than the overwhelming majority of the scientific community. Better grab a bogus, already proven to be false, right wing propaganda link. Fox News will do. You got nothing, clown. You look like an idiot, considering you drive truck and think you personally know better than the climate experts.
Canton

Canton, OH

#27354 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
I bet when you see all those "H"s and "L"s on the weather map, you think they represent Hispanics and Lesbians. Sorry Canton, you're no weather man and never will be. As for Buchanan, we don't even consider him anymore, actually, we never did. He didn't stand a chance as our presidential nominee.
I bet when you see 30,000 record high temperatures, you close your eyes. I bet when the scientists who accurately predicted the hottest decade in recorded history, you know. Back when you guys were saying climate change didn't exist at all, you went with what the Koch Brothers were telling you. I bet, when those same scientists accurately predicted that our changing climate would cause extreme artic weather patterns, you somehow were stupid enough to declare it a victory for your side. Your side being the spineless goons who crawl on their bellies for the big boss man, that is.

Pat Buchanan must have gotten swept under the rug with Sarah Palin, Michele Bachman, GW Bush, the cost of the war in Iraq, Reagan's 11% unemployment rating...
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27355 Mar 30, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right that our doctors are paid more. We also pay more for operations and for our medicine. How do other countries address this problem?
"...many OECD countries use strong regulation to set prices that hospitals can charge for different services, and some of them even set budgets for how much hospitals can spend. The quality of care delivered in hospitals in these countries are comparable to that in the U.S., and universities are still able to attract the best students to medicine."
"It is difficult to untangle precisely why prices are higher in the U.S., but two things are apparent: U.S. physicians get higher incomes than in other countries and the U.S. uses more expensive diagnostic procedures. More generally, with so many different kinds of insurance, no one organization has a strong incentive to cut out wasteful practices and ensure that all Americans get value for the very high levels of expenditure incurred when they are sick."
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/health-co...
I know you hate government regulation, but the countries that regulate healthcare costs and have single payer systems seem to get equivalent service for much less money.
In the US, it takes anywhere from three to ten years for our FDA to approve a new drug. During this time, it takes millions of dollars of testing, paperwork and interaction with our federal government.

If and when a new drug finally gets approved, the drug company has to recoup all that money they invested. This is why you read or watch on television reporters stating that it costs a company fifty cents to make a pill, but they charge eight dollars.

Many of the new drugs never make it to market because of the FDA. So how does a drug company recoup those losses? They increase the price of their drugs already in the US market.

So why are these drugs cheaper in other countries? Easy enough to figure out, we took the hit for all the testing and paperwork. In another country, they just simply put it out on the market.

Then there is the liability issue that drug manufacturers don't have to deal with in other countries. In our country, the manufacture has to include X amount of money for legal defense and liability.

So the reason our prescriptions cost what they do is because of the FDA, all the drugs not approved by the FDA, and the extensive testing and red tape that it takes to get a drug approved. This information was passed on to me by my cousin in Maryland. She's a research doctor up there.
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#27356 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Well I have an extensive answer for all this, so I may post twice. Let me start off with a personal story:
Back in the early 80's when I was delivering and repairing home medical equipment, our company decided to open up a pharmacy. It wasn't a public pharmacy like Drug Mart or anything like that, it was more like a room where a pharmacist could mix prescriptions for our home patents.
After our Monday morning meeting, we all ran to the coffee pot and extended our own meeting. At the time, UPS was on strike so that was the topic for our coffee meeting.
As we discussed the situation, I took note of our newest employee--our pharmacist. She seemed to get angry to the point her face was turning red, but she didn't say a thing.
Finally in haste, she abruptly turned her back and quickly walked away. The RN looked at me as if to say "WTF did we say??"
The coffee crowd broke up and everybody went back to work except me. I was always the last to leave. LOL. At that point, the pharmacist returned. In her hand she had her Pharmacy Magazine. Still mad as hell, she shoved the magazine in my belly and told me to read the section of the article that she highlighted. The article stated (at the time) that the average pharmacist made about $63,000 per year in the US. A UPS package driver made about $57,000 per year.
She said "Do you know what I went through to become a pharmacist? Do you know what my parents went through? For what? To make five grand more than a UPS driver? And their union has the nerve to go on strike??? I should be on strike. If I were a young girl today having this information, I sure as hell wouldn't be here putting this pharmacy together. I would be there (pointing to the overhead door where UPS dropped off) delivering your packages."
This is what's known as the Domino Effect that impacted our healthcare professionals. You can't ask a pharmacist to go through all that school and expense to make nearly the same amount as a UPS worker.
Why not? She should have bargained for better pay. You sure don't like the free market very much when you disagree with its results.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27357 Mar 30, 2014
Canton wrote:
<quoted text>
I am certainly no more of a weatherman than you are. That's why I am smart enough to go with the 97% of the experts on climate science. Now let's hear why you choose the 3%, with most of whom work directly for the energy industry. Go ahead and explain why you think you know better than the overwhelming majority of the scientific community. Better grab a bogus, already proven to be false, right wing propaganda link. Fox News will do. You got nothing, clown. You look like an idiot, considering you drive truck and think you personally know better than the climate experts.
LOL, well at least I know that it can get cold and mild in a 24 hour period. I also know that it's nothing abnormal. I also have my news websites all with a a weather section where I can look up the average temperatures for this time of year.

As for your 97% of scientists, it's already been proven phony, so when you bring it up, I just laugh. How can anybody take you seriously when you bring that up?
Pope Che Reagan Christ I

Medina, OH

#27358 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
In the US, it takes anywhere from three to ten years for our FDA to approve a new drug. During this time, it takes millions of dollars of testing, paperwork and interaction with our federal government.
If and when a new drug finally gets approved, the drug company has to recoup all that money they invested. This is why you read or watch on television reporters stating that it costs a company fifty cents to make a pill, but they charge eight dollars.
Many of the new drugs never make it to market because of the FDA. So how does a drug company recoup those losses? They increase the price of their drugs already in the US market.
So why are these drugs cheaper in other countries? Easy enough to figure out, we took the hit for all the testing and paperwork. In another country, they just simply put it out on the market.
Then there is the liability issue that drug manufacturers don't have to deal with in other countries. In our country, the manufacture has to include X amount of money for legal defense and liability.
So the reason our prescriptions cost what they do is because of the FDA, all the drugs not approved by the FDA, and the extensive testing and red tape that it takes to get a drug approved. This information was passed on to me by my cousin in Maryland. She's a research doctor up there.
Wrong again. In this country, we let big business rape the consumer. In other countries, they don't.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27359 Mar 30, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not? She should have bargained for better pay. You sure don't like the free market very much when you disagree with its results.
What really happened is that our country suffered a shortage of medical personnel. Our unions in this country made it unreasonable for anybody to go into the medical field unless it was a strong passion. So how do you attract people to this kind of work? You have to increase the wages for these professionals. Otherwise they will go to UPS, FedEx, Ford, the steel mills, or a number of other non-skilled employment.

Until this day, if you look in the want ads under medical, you will still see many, many positions not being filled. As we are forced to pay these workers much more money, it increases the cost of our medical care. I believe a pharmacist today makes somewhere in the 140 to 160 K range. An RN can move to just about anywhere in the country and not worry about finding a job. They are still in high demand.
woo-boy

Van Wert, OH

#27360 Mar 30, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
In the US, it takes anywhere from three to ten years for our FDA to approve a new drug. During this time, it takes millions of dollars of testing, paperwork and interaction with our federal government.
If and when a new drug finally gets approved, the drug company has to recoup all that money they invested. This is why you read or watch on television reporters stating that it costs a company fifty cents to make a pill, but they charge eight dollars.
Many of the new drugs never make it to market because of the FDA. So how does a drug company recoup those losses? They increase the price of their drugs already in the US market.
So why are these drugs cheaper in other countries? Easy enough to figure out, we took the hit for all the testing and paperwork. In another country, they just simply put it out on the market.
Then there is the liability issue that drug manufacturers don't have to deal with in other countries. In our country, the manufacture has to include X amount of money for legal defense and liability.
So the reason our prescriptions cost what they do is because of the FDA, all the drugs not approved by the FDA, and the extensive testing and red tape that it takes to get a drug approved. This information was passed on to me by my cousin in Maryland. She's a research doctor up there.
You're just a pathetic cry baby.
xxxrayted

Berea, OH

#27361 Mar 30, 2014
Pope Che Reagan Christ I wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong again. In this country, we let big business rape the consumer. In other countries, they don't.
Is that what you want, a government that controls the private sector taking away competition and trusting them not to cheat the system for their own political advantage?

Competition controls prices, monopolies don't.
takingthemiddle

Celina, OH

#27362 Mar 30, 2014
Wish all the proponents of a one payer system would go to socialized countries to see "exactly" what it has done to the system. Why do you think many have come to the U.S. for operations? My best friend from Canada would have died had she waited for care there. You all need to get the real facts. These idiots who just took over your HC can't do anything efficiently. The tore down the house to fix the roof!

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