woo-boy

Waverly, OH

#24535 Jan 26, 2014
Super Mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at the federal level. The states could do whatever they wanted, and were like little countries in and of themselves. Some even had religions established in their constitutions. The states' right to govern themselves essentially ended with the passage of the 14th Amendment, George Mason had been concerned about that very thing during the debates in the Constitutional Convention.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/bor/fed-an...
The federal govt was created to bring a sense of stability and legitimacy to the nation, as well as to handle international concerns and to provide protection from threats. It was never intended to be a leviathan with unlimited power, that's controlled by unelected, faceless bureaucrats. The states, who had just fought to free themselves from an oppressive govt, would have never signed their rights away. They barely agreed to ratify the Constitution as it was, because they were so afraid of a central govt. If they could see what our govt has become, they would probably think King George wasn't so bad. At least he was an ocean away.
There was no personal income tax levied until 1861.
<quoted text>
I didn't ask what a 20th-century crook would do, I asked what the founders would do.
Something like the first healthcare law 'An Act For The Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen', put in July, 1798.
seriously

Chillicothe, OH

#24536 Jan 26, 2014
Super Mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
Not at the federal level. The states could do whatever they wanted, and were like little countries in and of themselves. Some even had religions established in their constitutions. The states' right to govern themselves essentially ended with the passage of the 14th Amendment, George Mason had been concerned about that very thing during the debates in the Constitutional Convention.
http://teachingamericanhistory.org/bor/fed-an...
The federal govt was created to bring a sense of stability and legitimacy to the nation, as well as to handle international concerns and to provide protection from threats. It was never intended to be a leviathan with unlimited power, that's controlled by unelected, faceless bureaucrats. The states, who had just fought to free themselves from an oppressive govt, would have never signed their rights away. They barely agreed to ratify the Constitution as it was, because they were so afraid of a central govt. If they could see what our govt has become, they would probably think King George wasn't so bad. At least he was an ocean away.
There was no personal income tax levied until 1861.
^^This^^ Perfectly stated.

And the federal government uses tax money to put the states in a financial headlock forcing policy. This is not how it was supposed to be.

Since: Jan 14

Chillicothe, OH

#24537 Jan 26, 2014
joanna50 wrote:
Seems to me that nobody has this nations best interest in mind. Greed and a false sense of power give rise to self promotion as opposed to doing what's right for this country. Been this way since Kennedy was killed, America s gone into the crapper since then.
I think throughout America's history, most politicians have been self-serving. But the citizenry was different then. They were scrappy and self-sufficient, and they took pride in their heritage. They wouldn't have tolerated what we have now.

I believe FDR really started our descent, by taking advantage of people's suffering during the Depression. After he pushed Social Security through the courts, people began to get conditioned to think they weren't able to sufficiently provide for themselves ... Big Brother needed to make sure they had their finances in order by helping them save and issuing checks to them when they grew old. Then Big Brother needed to issue other people's money to them when they were down on their luck. Then it needed to take care of their children's health. Then it needed to pay for their abortions and birth control. Each generation felt more and more entitled, until now we're left with ones who can't function in society without govt hand-outs and safety nets. They don't appreciate freedom, because sometimes freedom means difficult sacrifices. These generations keep electing the politicians who will give them more and more and more, even if they have to take it from others, and it's still not enough. The politicians are happy to oblige. We get what we demand.

Since: Jan 14

Chillicothe, OH

#24538 Jan 26, 2014
seriously wrote:
And the federal government uses tax money to put the states in a financial headlock forcing policy. This is not how it was supposed to be.
That's so true. Handouts keep everybody in line.6627

Since: Jan 14

Chillicothe, OH

#24539 Jan 26, 2014
woo-boy wrote:
Something like the first healthcare law 'An Act For The Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen', put in July, 1798.
The fed govt is charged with the operation of the military. It owns it, in a sense, and runs it like a business. This is no different than private-sector businesses that take pay out of their employees' checks to cover the cost of uniforms or other benefits provided to the employees, for example.

Since: Jan 14

Chillicothe, OH

#24540 Jan 26, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
You can feel that way, but the reality is that you get nothing done unless you have a super majority or work with the other side. Remember that it's the media that controls the minds of most Americans today. The media says Republicans shut down government, then that's what people believe. They don't think about it or look into it. They think the Republicans single-handedly shut down the government. The media says Republicans are stopping DumBama with job growth, the puppets believe that the economy is the fault of the Republicans.
Thinking back to the 90's, how much did we get accomplished by working with Clinton? What would have been accomplished if the Republican Congress took the approach that it's either our way or the highway? Newt studied and applied Reagan's philosophies.
Using your approach, all you really do is weaken the force when it's an all or nothing deal. People believe the lies of the media and vote against you. DumBama won reelection. We lost some seats in Congress.
I wish the country were run the way I want it to operate, but again, it's not going to happen. So what you have to do is get as much as you can. If it were up to me, all bureaucracies would be dismantled and all decisions, laws, taxes and fines would be up to the Congress. Because the two largest threats to our liberty are lifelong judges and bureaucracies; that's because neither has anybody to answer to.
I used to be more inclined to believe that way, but making deals hasn't gotten us anywhere. As I said before, Bush worked with the dems for 6 years. Instead of giving him credit for that, they spent their time plotting how they could make him out to be a liar, so they could win the next election. And all the country got for Bush's good intentions was more dependence on govt and more massive debt. And the liberals blamed him for it all, even though that's what they wanted.

Our biggest problem isn't the media or the democrats. It's the RINOs in office. If they believed and fought for the principles that founded the party, as Cruz, Lee, and a handful of others are trying to do, the republicans would be a force to be reckoned with. I think we would be able to make advancements with our message, because we would be united. As it is now, Boehner, McConnell, etc. pretend to be conservative long enough to appease the base, while making deals with the democrats behind the scenes. Once the deals are made, they come out and attack the real republicans.

The shutdown was a perfect example of how the RINOS snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. The shutdown coincided perfectly with the botched roll-out of ObamaCare, and then the thousands of people losing their health insurance as a result of Obama's lies. Instead of building on that reality, and reaffirming to Americans that we can fix this mess, Boehner goes on Leno's show and says what a mistake the shutdown was, and how partisan Washington is. WTF? That jackass needs to be shown the door.
Nick Khrushchev

Akron, OH

#24541 Jan 26, 2014
WE WILL BURY YOU, Capitalist dogs!
Canton

Canton, OH

#24542 Jan 26, 2014
seriously wrote:
<quoted text>
^^This^^ Perfectly stated.
And the federal government uses tax money to put the states in a financial headlock forcing policy. This is not how it was supposed to be.
Hey neat...just two completely unrelated people from Chillicothe, completely agreeing with themselves...oops...I meant each other...nudge nudge, wink wink. How very rightwing of you. VOID
Pops

Newport, KY

#24543 Jan 26, 2014
woo-boy wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, such insight from someone smack dab in the middle of Jethro McOnetooth land.
Now that's a funny name !!
Canton

Canton, OH

#24544 Jan 26, 2014
This one is dedicated to the two entirely different people who totally agree with each other...Super Mutt and Seriously....

seriously

Chillicothe, OH

#24545 Jan 26, 2014
Canton wrote:
This one is dedicated to the two entirely different people who totally agree with each other...Super Mutt and Seriously....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =FG1NrQYXjLUXX
Why are you guys so paranoid? You can easily go to the Chillicothe forum and see that we are not the same person. In fact, there has been periods of total disagreement.
Pops

Newport, KY

#24546 Jan 26, 2014
seriously wrote:
<quoted text>

And the federal government uses tax money to put the states in a financial headlock forcing policy. This is not how it was supposed to be.
True & it sort of ticks me off. Examples: Highway funds with held from states that did NOT raise the legal drinking age to 21. Funds with held if B.A.C. is NOT lowered to .08. Funds with held if seat belt violations was NOT made a primary offense.
I am not saying that these are not admiral goals, That is not the issue. It is that Washington has with held tax revenue that was generated with-in each states borders & used extortion to do it! How can that be not considered a crime? Oh yea, Washington is special & exempts itself (their selves) from all sort of things. Like typical med benefits, bouncing personal checks with no charge, balancing the budget, common retirement benefits......& on & on
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#24550 Jan 26, 2014
Free Pizza 4 U wrote:
<quoted text>
With all due respect sir: you are incorrect and so is your dictionary.......
Yes, dictionary.com must be part of the vast liberal conspiracy.

And so is http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dem...

"de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-&#712;mä-kr&#601;- s&#275;\

: a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting"

...as opposed to a monarchy or oligarchy, were decisions are made by one or an elite.

Once again, what you are thinking of is "pure democracy": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pur...
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#24551 Jan 26, 2014
Super Mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you think the founders would have levied a heavier tax on one group of citizens more than another? Do you think they would want unelected, unaccountable bureaucracies like the EPA to make laws?
It's vital for us to take the Senate in 2014 and the WH in 2016.
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, who was the liberal President that created the EPA by executive order?
"Reorganization Plan No. 3 (35 F.R. 15623, 84 Stat. 2086) was an executive order submitted to the United States Congress on July 9, 1970 by President Richard Nixon establishing the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and setting forth the components of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reorganization_P...
Super Mutt wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't ask what a 20th-century crook would do, I asked what the founders would do.
And then you followed that with "It's vital for us to take the Senate in 2014 and the WH in 2016." By "us" I assumed you meant Republicans, so I thought I'd remind you that the EPA was created by Richard Nixon by executive order.
seriously

Chillicothe, OH

#24552 Jan 26, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, dictionary.com must be part of the vast liberal conspiracy.
And so is http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dem...
"de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-&#712;mä-kr&#601;- s&#275;\
: a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting"
...as opposed to a monarchy or oligarchy, were decisions are made by one or an elite.
Once again, what you are thinking of is "pure democracy": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pur...
You can deny it, but it doesn't change facts. We have always been a federal republic. A constitutional republic and not a democracy.

“Hereeeeee'ssss UR Pizza”

Since: May 13

Columbus, OH

#24553 Jan 26, 2014
Old Guy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, dictionary.com must be part of the vast liberal conspiracy.
And so is http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dem...
"de·moc·ra·cy
noun \di-&#712;mä-kr&#601;- s&#275;\
: a form of government in which people choose leaders by voting"
...as opposed to a monarchy or oligarchy, were decisions are made by one or an elite.
Once again, what you are thinking of is "pure democracy": http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pur...
Two words...Electoral College

Using your on line dictionary definition however.... that would make Russian, Iran, Iraq, China, Egypt, Afghanistan etc.etc. Democracies I guess.
Then of course there is the fact that the word Democracy is never mentioned in the constitution but...... Art. 4, Sec. 4 states "The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government."


The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately.
A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin,“Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded,“A republic, if you can keep it.”(Benjamin Franklin)

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.......

http://lmgtfy.com/...

http://www.1215.org/lawnotes/lawnotes/repvsde...
Canton

Canton, OH

#24554 Jan 26, 2014
seriously wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are you guys so paranoid? You can easily go to the Chillicothe forum and see that we are not the same person. In fact, there has been periods of total disagreement.
You mean besides you...oops I meant Super Nutt being busted for being a total liar? Nothing paranoid about calling a clown out on their BS game. Like I did to you for instance.
Canton

Canton, OH

#24555 Jan 26, 2014
xxxrayted wrote:
<quoted text>
Darn, I guessed wrong. I was going to say you and Van Wert.
As witty as the commonly used rightwing "no I'm not, you are" tactic has ever been. Sharp as a spoon. Weak too. Hey, at least you don't see Canton telling someone from Canton how dreamy they are. It's because a toddler could figure out it's the same person. Didn't stop Super Mutt, though.
seriously

Chillicothe, OH

#24556 Jan 26, 2014
Canton wrote:
Hey, at least you don't see Canton telling someone from Canton how dreamy they are. It's because a toddler could figure out it's the same person. Didn't stop Super Mutt, though.
And it never occurred to you that more than one person in Chillicothe uses topix? Why are you so paranoid?
Old Guy

Cincinnati, OH

#24557 Jan 26, 2014
Free Pizza 4 U wrote:
<quoted text>
Two words...Electoral College
Two words: False Dilemma

"A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, black-and/or-white thinking, the either-or fallacy, the fallacy of false choice, the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses, the fallacy of the false alternative or the fallacy of the excluded middle) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

Has it occurred to you that the United States could be both a democracy AND a republic?

http://www.state.gov/j/drl/democ/

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