killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#124 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
For a non-Catholic to charge the Roman Catholic church with false teaching is not comprehendible, for to a Catholic, doctrine is defined by the Organization. It is like telling God, He is wrong. God is the standard of right and wrong! To a Catholic, the Roman Catholic organization is the earthly standard of right and wrong and doctrine. Yet the truth is that the Bible, not the church, is the ultimate standard on earth of right and wrong. Jesus said that our standard of judgment would be his word, not what the pope says. John 12:48
Again. God is perfect, man is not. Many of the belief of pagan rituals were allow to come into the CC to help convert the Romans to the church. This is why we have statues inside the building of CC. To help convert from the GODS OF ROME to the Catholic God. This is still done today. You look at the ritual beliefs of people from South America, or the Carribbean Island where voodoo practice, within the CC, is allowed. Look at Africa and the Cultural customs have carried into the CC, again to get them to Convert over. Does this have anything to do what the prophets said or Jesus?
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#125 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
The Catholics reject several of the specific canons of the early ecumenical councils, but the orthodox accept them as inspired.
Catholics and Orthodox disagree on the dates of Christmas and Easter. While the Orthodox church claims council at Nice was inspired, yet is rejects the canons of Nicea on the date of Easter which the Catholics accept.
The Catholics teach purgatory, yet the Orthodox reject it.
Universal papal jurisdiction was a rather large dogfight in 588-606 AD.
Although the Orthodox reject Papal infallibility, the decisions of the orthodox synods are considered infallible.
The Immaculate Conception is utterly rejected by the Orthodox.
The orthodox baptized by full immersion (thrice), the Catholics sprinkle.
In the Orthodox Church married men can become priests. In the Catholic church men are forbidden to marry.(except for one small part of the world)
The Roman Catholic church introduced instrumental music no earlier than the 7th century and the Orthodox church has never used instrumental music, but like the apostles, sang without instrument.
Yes, may laws were reject by both. But the laws that were given the OK, is mainly for control. Jesus did attend a wedding and he never said that to be a "follower" you cannot be married. Why are Priest not allow to married? The immaculate Conception was reject by the Greek because the CC place Mary on the same level has Jesus and GOD. The Pope is believe to be right all the time, in the greek it is declared but not ruled within the laws of the "book" because mankind is not perfect and a sinner. What does music have to do with all this. Music inside a church or not mean nothing. I am not knocking the CC. All I am saying is that Man is a sinner who created the CC and the Greek Orthodox.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#126 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
The Catholics reject several of the specific canons of the early ecumenical councils, but the orthodox accept them as inspired.
Catholics and Orthodox disagree on the dates of Christmas and Easter. While the Orthodox church claims council at Nice was inspired, yet is rejects the canons of Nicea on the date of Easter which the Catholics accept.
The Catholics teach purgatory, yet the Orthodox reject it.
Universal papal jurisdiction was a rather large dogfight in 588-606 AD.
Although the Orthodox reject Papal infallibility, the decisions of the orthodox synods are considered infallible.
The Immaculate Conception is utterly rejected by the Orthodox.
The orthodox baptized by full immersion (thrice), the Catholics sprinkle.
In the Orthodox Church married men can become priests. In the Catholic church men are forbidden to marry.(except for one small part of the world)
The Roman Catholic church introduced instrumental music no earlier than the 7th century and the Orthodox church has never used instrumental music, but like the apostles, sang without instrument.
Lord have mercy. Are you intentionally lying?

First with no Authority you have to talk about a specific Orthodox Church. They have split up quite a few times over Authority. Their apostolic succession have remained so their Sacraments are valid.

Purgatory: From an Orthodox. They just use a different name.

"In the East, we tend to have a much more positive view of the transition from death to Heaven. Rather than "Purgatory," we prefer to call it "the Final Theosis."

Instruments.
I love the Byzantine chanting in some Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches.

I guarantee they don't chant "Stand up for Jesus "

From an Othodox website. not forbidden. It is a tradition.

Why do the Orthodox not use musical instruments in worship?

ANSWER:

While there are parishes throughout the U.S. that have organs and use organs, traditionally, Orthodox Christian worship normally uses only the human voice.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#127 Jul 30, 2013
In Catholic communion, the cup is withheld from the members, while the Orthodox float the "crouton looking" bread cubes in the wine. Catholics believe the bread and wine (transubstantiation) become the literal body of Christ when the priest says, "this is my body". The Orthodox disagrees and says the change takes place at prayer. Catholics use unleavened bread, while Orthodox use leavened bread. Orthodox must keep a ridged schedule of fasts in order to have communion every week, but the most common practice is a minimum of four times a year during the four Orthodox Lents "Christmas, Easter, Peter and Paul, The virgin Mary. Catholics on the other hand, must not eat the hour before, to have communion every day. In the end, Orthodox offer communion weekly and Catholics daily. In practice most Orthodox laity have communion four times year and Catholics weekly. So which of these two traditions is the one the apostles used? All this proves that they have no valid "apostolic tradition", otherwise they would all agree! They differ on the frequency of communion, the fasting requirements and the actual method of partaking.
Transubstantiation is a false doctrine that says the bread and grape juice of the Lord's supper actually molecularly change to become the flesh and blood of Jesus. Of course this old doctrine was formulated before the advent of molecular microscopes which see no change. For Catholics the "Transubstantiation" occurs when the priest says the words, "this is my body". For Orthodox the change occurs when the priest offers the prayer of thanks.
The "Filioque" scandal: Following the Nicene creed, the Orthodox Church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father alone. Then in 1054 AD the Roman church added to the wording of the Nicene creed "And the Son" or the "Filioque." The Roman church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from BOTH the Father and the Son.
Orthodox keeps the original Nicene Creed, accepted by the Universal Church, East and West, during the first millennium without the addition of "And the Son" or the "Filioque." It accepts, on faith, Christ's words in the Gospel, that the Father is the Unoriginate Source of the Life of the Trinity, with the Only-Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit Proceeding from the Father Alone. We cannot know how the Begetting of the Son and the Proceeding of the Spirit from the same Father is different, only that it is and this distinguishes the two Persons.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#128 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
In Catholic communion, the cup is withheld from the members, while the Orthodox float the "crouton looking" bread cubes in the wine. Catholics believe the bread and wine (transubstantiation) become the literal body of Christ when the priest says, "this is my body". The Orthodox disagrees and says the change takes place at prayer. Catholics use unleavened bread, while Orthodox use leavened bread. Orthodox must keep a ridged schedule of fasts in order to have communion every week, but the most common practice is a minimum of four times a year during the four Orthodox Lents "Christmas, Easter, Peter and Paul, The virgin Mary. Catholics on the other hand, must not eat the hour before, to have communion every day. In the end, Orthodox offer communion weekly and Catholics daily. In practice most Orthodox laity have communion four times year and Catholics weekly. So which of these two traditions is the one the apostles used? All this proves that they have no valid "apostolic tradition", otherwise they would all agree! They differ on the frequency of communion, the fasting requirements and the actual method of partaking.
Transubstantiation is a false doctrine that says the bread and grape juice of the Lord's supper actually molecularly change to become the flesh and blood of Jesus. Of course this old doctrine was formulated before the advent of molecular microscopes which see no change. For Catholics the "Transubstantiation" occurs when the priest says the words, "this is my body". For Orthodox the change occurs when the priest offers the prayer of thanks.
The "Filioque" scandal: Following the Nicene creed, the Orthodox Church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father alone. Then in 1054 AD the Roman church added to the wording of the Nicene creed "And the Son" or the "Filioque." The Roman church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from BOTH the Father and the Son.
Orthodox keeps the original Nicene Creed, accepted by the Universal Church, East and West, during the first millennium without the addition of "And the Son" or the "Filioque." It accepts, on faith, Christ's words in the Gospel, that the Father is the Unoriginate Source of the Life of the Trinity, with the Only-Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit Proceeding from the Father Alone. We cannot know how the Begetting of the Son and the Proceeding of the Spirit from the same Father is different, only that it is and this distinguishes the two Persons.
That is why I did not join the Orthodox Church when I converted.

They don't have the Authority. Too many to pick from.

They split from the CC and split up amongst themselves.

They are our cousins in Christ though. Successors to the Apostles so their Sacraments are valid.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#129 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
In Catholic communion, the cup is withheld from the members, while the Orthodox float the "crouton looking" bread cubes in the wine. Catholics believe the bread and wine (transubstantiation) become the literal body of Christ when the priest says, "this is my body". The Orthodox disagrees and says the change takes place at prayer. Catholics use unleavened bread, while Orthodox use leavened bread. Orthodox must keep a ridged schedule of fasts in order to have communion every week, but the most common practice is a minimum of four times a year during the four Orthodox Lents "Christmas, Easter, Peter and Paul, The virgin Mary. Catholics on the other hand, must not eat the hour before, to have communion every day. In the end, Orthodox offer communion weekly and Catholics daily. In practice most Orthodox laity have communion four times year and Catholics weekly. So which of these two traditions is the one the apostles used? All this proves that they have no valid "apostolic tradition", otherwise they would all agree! They differ on the frequency of communion, the fasting requirements and the actual method of partaking.
Transubstantiation is a false doctrine that says the bread and grape juice of the Lord's supper actually molecularly change to become the flesh and blood of Jesus. Of course this old doctrine was formulated before the advent of molecular microscopes which see no change. For Catholics the "Transubstantiation" occurs when the priest says the words, "this is my body". For Orthodox the change occurs when the priest offers the prayer of thanks.
The "Filioque" scandal: Following the Nicene creed, the Orthodox Church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from the Father alone. Then in 1054 AD the Roman church added to the wording of the Nicene creed "And the Son" or the "Filioque." The Roman church believed the Holy Spirit proceeded from BOTH the Father and the Son.
Orthodox keeps the original Nicene Creed, accepted by the Universal Church, East and West, during the first millennium without the addition of "And the Son" or the "Filioque." It accepts, on faith, Christ's words in the Gospel, that the Father is the Unoriginate Source of the Life of the Trinity, with the Only-Begotten Son and the Holy Spirit Proceeding from the Father Alone. We cannot know how the Begetting of the Son and the Proceeding of the Spirit from the same Father is different, only that it is and this distinguishes the two Persons.
Tacky Tacky cutting and pasting and not providing the source!
I know there are too many big words in this for you to have written it. By the way having served as an Extraordinary Minister of the Eucharist on numerous occasions I can tell for a fact the cup is not withheld from members just from creeps like you.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#130 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
The Catholics reject several of the specific canons of the early ecumenical councils, but the orthodox accept them as inspired.
Catholics and Orthodox disagree on the dates of Christmas and Easter. While the Orthodox church claims council at Nice was inspired, yet is rejects the canons of Nicea on the date of Easter which the Catholics accept.
The Catholics teach purgatory, yet the Orthodox reject it.
Universal papal jurisdiction was a rather large dogfight in 588-606 AD.
Although the Orthodox reject Papal infallibility, the decisions of the orthodox synods are considered infallible.
The Immaculate Conception is utterly rejected by the Orthodox.
The orthodox baptized by full immersion (thrice), the Catholics sprinkle.
In the Orthodox Church married men can become priests. In the Catholic church men are forbidden to marry.(except for one small part of the world)
The Roman Catholic church introduced instrumental music no earlier than the 7th century and the Orthodox church has never used instrumental music, but like the apostles, sang without instrument.
So what you are saying is you have no choice but to become a member of the Orthodox Church. By the way they don't use Welchs.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#131 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
The Catholics reject several of the specific canons of the early ecumenical councils, but the orthodox accept them as inspired.
Catholics and Orthodox disagree on the dates of Christmas and Easter. While the Orthodox church claims council at Nice was inspired, yet is rejects the canons of Nicea on the date of Easter which the Catholics accept.
The Catholics teach purgatory, yet the Orthodox reject it.
Universal papal jurisdiction was a rather large dogfight in 588-606 AD.
Although the Orthodox reject Papal infallibility, the decisions of the orthodox synods are considered infallible.
The Immaculate Conception is utterly rejected by the Orthodox.
The orthodox baptized by full immersion (thrice), the Catholics sprinkle.
In the Orthodox Church married men can become priests. In the Catholic church men are forbidden to marry.(except for one small part of the world)
The Roman Catholic church introduced instrumental music no earlier than the 7th century and the Orthodox church has never used instrumental music, but like the apostles, sang without instrument.
So which dates for Christmas and Easter do you accept? And today is July 30, 2013 thanks to the Roman Catholic Church. Do you accept that?

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#132 Jul 30, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
That is why I did not join the Orthodox Church when I converted.
They don't have the Authority. Too many to pick from.
They split from the CC and split up amongst themselves.
They are our cousins in Christ though. Successors to the Apostles so their Sacraments are valid.
Here is the problem

Roman Catholics and Orthodox nuke it out, each claiming the other's tradition is wrong, while sola Scriptura advocates point them back to the Bible as the only hope for unity! Both Roman Catholics and Orthodox view the other churches tradition as invalid. We merely highlight the fact that, contrary to their claims, "church tradition" does not bring about uniform doctrine and interpretation of scripture.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#133 Jul 30, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with everything the Church teaches me infallibly in the areas of the faith and morals. Jesus told me to do that. It it pillar and foundation of Truth.
Anathema is a legal term indicating the severest of excommunications. It has this particular, limited meaning in the context of the legal canons of the Council of Trent.
But the Catechism of the Catholic explains that anybody how is has a valid baptism is a Christian and who does not die in the state of mortal sin might be saved Only God knows who will be saved.
Sproul. is just another of millions of protestants who believe what they want to believe and think they areright, so he is his own Pope.
Then you should do some research on this matter. What you said that anything the church say is true. I thought that anything the prophets say and jesus says is true and that mankind is a sinner and naturally evil.Didn't Jesus say this is Satan world. Today it still is. revelations says WOE TO THE INHABIDANTS. meaning to bad for man, Satan rule is causing man suffering but after the end of days, satan will no longer rule this planet. therefore the Church of Christ has not come yet.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#134 Jul 30, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
So which dates for Christmas and Easter do you accept? And today is July 30, 2013 thanks to the Roman Catholic Church. Do you accept that?
Santa Claus day is Dec 25 Easter Bunny egg day is in the spring think first Sunday in April after some moon deal.
Mike Peterson

Birmingham, AL

#135 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Santa Claus day is Dec 25 Easter Bunny egg day is in the spring think first Sunday in April after some moon deal.
Next time you look at a Calendar remember it is a Catholic calendar you follow.

I love history.

Pope Gregory created in in 1582. Some Protestant countries resisted for many years but eventually had to give in.

For example on September 2, 1752, was a great day in the history of sleep.

That Wednesday evening, millions of British subjects in England and the colonies went peacefully to sleep and did not wake up until twelve days later.

Their calendar was off that much and they finally saw the light on the Catholic Calendar.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#136 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Santa Claus day is Dec 25 Easter Bunny egg day is in the spring think first Sunday in April after some moon deal.
Dec 25 was created when the CC was founded at the Nicean Counsel. It was used to help convert Romans over to the CC. Dec 25 was a Pagan celebration for the God Saturnia. basically it was a celebration for the days getting longer in daylight, the birth of a new spring coming soon. Easter Egg came about again thru the CC. The Egg represent new life in the spring. Rebirth of the flowers and the growing of the crops. Resurrection of Christ. New life.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#137 Jul 30, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>
Next time you look at a Calendar remember it is a Catholic calendar you follow.
I love history.
Pope Gregory created in in 1582. Some Protestant countries resisted for many years but eventually had to give in.
For example on September 2, 1752, was a great day in the history of sleep.
That Wednesday evening, millions of British subjects in England and the colonies went peacefully to sleep and did not wake up until twelve days later.
Their calendar was off that much and they finally saw the light on the Catholic Calendar.
this so call Catholic calendar is because to separate history before Christ and after Christ. that's all it is. Has nothing to do with God creating a "new era", only to help place history. Which by the way, base on the "CATHOLIC" calendar, it is believe that Jesus was born sometime between the year 7 and 4 BC., in the early spring or late fall. In the Jewish calendar, today I believe is the year 5768. Jesus was a jew.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#138 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
<quoted text>Santa Claus day is Dec 25 Easter Bunny egg day is in the spring think first Sunday in April after some moon deal.
So you are saying you really don't know or care what day it is and if you are working (which I doubt) you refuse Christmas and Easter days off if offered by your employer?

And here's another really big word for your vocabulary brought to you by the Commander and Chief of the Prots, Fr. Martin Luther, consubstantiation. That, and his approval of infant baptism should send you over the top and into Prot nirvana.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#139 Jul 30, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> this so call Catholic calendar is because to separate history before Christ and after Christ. that's all it is. Has nothing to do with God creating a "new era", only to help place history. Which by the way, base on the "CATHOLIC" calendar, it is believe that Jesus was born sometime between the year 7 and 4 BC., in the early spring or late fall. In the Jewish calendar, today I believe is the year 5768. Jesus was a jew.
Dude you never cease to amaze me with your depth and breadth of knowledge. Before you repeat more of your nonsense in public let me tell you this so called Catholic calendar came about because of the need to accurately count the number of days it takes the earth to rotate around the sun, nothing more nothing less. Given these calculations were done without benefit of computers much less calculators it is a mathematical and scientific tour de force, a remarkable gift to the world from the Catholic Church and Pope Gregory XIII. The Liturgical Calendar is something totally different but then of course you would know that.
killedjoe

Lindenhurst, NY

#140 Jul 30, 2013
MarkEden wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude you never cease to amaze me with your depth and breadth of knowledge. Before you repeat more of your nonsense in public let me tell you this so called Catholic calendar came about because of the need to accurately count the number of days it takes the earth to rotate around the sun, nothing more nothing less. Given these calculations were done without benefit of computers much less calculators it is a mathematical and scientific tour de force, a remarkable gift to the world from the Catholic Church and Pope Gregory XIII. The Liturgical Calendar is something totally different but then of course you would know that.
So what your saying then that before the so called Catholic calendar came into existence, there was no calendar at all. Romans didn't have a calendar or the jews had no calendar at all also. All that time from Moses to Jesus when the Jews celebrated Passover, they were celebrating to the wrong calendar. Are you saying that the apostles and jesus had it wrong when passover came about. Before the Nicean Counsel, there was no calendar at all. Please tell me your not saying this cause your getting pretty scarey right now. And if you try to say that it was the most accurate, it was adjusted many times. So much for accurate statements. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND RESEARCH. Please. I wonder how many folks are laughing reading what you said. Again, for some one who claim to be history person, again you drop the ball running for the touchdown.

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#141 Jul 30, 2013
killedjoe wrote:
<quoted text> So what your saying then that before the so called Catholic calendar came into existence, there was no calendar at all. Romans didn't have a calendar or the jews had no calendar at all also. All that time from Moses to Jesus when the Jews celebrated Passover, they were celebrating to the wrong calendar. Are you saying that the apostles and jesus had it wrong when passover came about. Before the Nicean Counsel, there was no calendar at all. Please tell me your not saying this cause your getting pretty scarey right now. And if you try to say that it was the most accurate, it was adjusted many times. So much for accurate statements. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF THE SAND AND RESEARCH. Please. I wonder how many folks are laughing reading what you said. Again, for some one who claim to be history person, again you drop the ball running for the touchdown.
I do so hope you are model quality good looking because you are not going to make it with your brains. The Jews had and have a calendar. The Romans had a calendar...where do you think the names for the months and days of the week came from? It exists today as the Julian calendar. Many civilizations had calendars even the human sacrificing Mayans. Up until the Gregorian calendar which more accurately counted the rotation of the earth around the sun all calendars required huge adjustments because the earth does not take exactly 365 days to make the journey. What do you call it when the Gregorian calendar is adjusted???
Anonymous Proxy

Manassas, VA

#142 Jul 30, 2013
Mike Peterson wrote:
<quoted text>

Pope Gregory created in in 1582. Some Protestant countries resisted for many years but eventually had to give in.
All about power as I have pointed out many times.
Anonymous Proxy

Manassas, VA

#143 Jul 30, 2013
JustChristian wrote:
"If only one instance could be given in which the Church ceased to teach a doctrine of faith which had been previously held, that single instance would be the death blow of her claim to infallibility." (Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of Our Fathers, p74)
"if it be not identical in belief, in government etc., with the primitive Church, then it is not the Church of Christ." (Catholic Facts, 27)
"Catholic controversialists soon proved to the Protestants that to be logical and consistent they must admit unwritten tradition." (Catholic Encyclopedia, Vol. XV, p. 7)
The Roman Catholic positions evolving on any doctrine shows they are not teaching doctrines of God. Know why? because the doctrines of god do not evolve, they are the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

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