Utilities kill plans for Big Stone II...

Utilities kill plans for Big Stone II power plant

There are 31 comments on the TwinCities.com story from Nov 2, 2009, titled Utilities kill plans for Big Stone II power plant. In it, TwinCities.com reports that:

Developers of the controversial Big Stone II power plant in Milbank, S.D., said Monday they will not build the $1.6 billion coal-fired project, ending a four-year battle between utilities and environmentalists over a significant portion of Minnesota's energy future.

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Post Toasties

Minneapolis, MN

#22 Nov 4, 2009
calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
I am shocked!
Owl Gore misquotes his own cited reference.
$300K for the turbine in question.
And at $0.12 per kw hr X 24 X 7 X 365 we get a payback in 2 years or so.
Trust me moron-its a black hole just like your head.

windmills are inefficient, expensive and unreliable form of energy.

can it get any worse????
FrankL

Saint Paul, MN

#23 Nov 4, 2009
The article in the Red Star stated quite clearly that this windmill will only achieve its nameplate capacity when the wind is 24 MPH, which happens just 20% of the time in a typical year. Thus, your payback is more likely 8 to 10 years. Plus, the power is not worth as much because it can not be guaranteed for the times when we need it, say 5:30 on a weekday evening.

calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
I am shocked!
Owl Gore misquotes his own cited reference.
$300K for the turbine in question.
And at $0.12 per kw hr X 24 X 7 X 365 we get a payback in 2 years or so. Even if you de-rate it for efficiency its' not the black hole Owl would have you believe.
Don't forget Owl is an Al Queda operative planted in the US to insure the continued dependence of the US on Middle East oil.
Allah Ach Bar Owl. insert gun fire here.
calvin

Minneapolis, MN

#24 Nov 4, 2009
FrankL wrote:
The article in the Red Star stated quite clearly that this windmill will only achieve its nameplate capacity when the wind is 24 MPH, which happens just 20% of the time in a typical year. Thus, your payback is more likely 8 to 10 years. Plus, the power is not worth as much because it can not be guaranteed for the times when we need it, say 5:30 on a weekday evening.
<quoted text>
Post Toasties wrote:
<quoted text>
Trust me moron-its a black hole just like your head.
windmills are inefficient, expensive and unreliable form of energy.
can it get any worse????
Thank you Al Queda operatives, Commander Owl Gore is proud of your efforts to insure continued dependence on Middle East oil.

Allah Ach Bar Owl

(Shoot guns in to the sky here)
FrankL

Saint Paul, MN

#25 Nov 4, 2009
Calvin. Last I saw, we don't use oil to generate electricity, thus your comment is meaningless.
Owl Gore

Monroe, LA

#26 Nov 4, 2009
Members of the mainstream media — people who call themselves “journalists”— seem to have paid absolutely no attention to a Congressional Research Service report

http://bobmccarty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009...

on energy released Oct. 27 — this, despite the fact that two energy-related measures (i.e., the Kerry-Boxer and Waxman-Markey) are at the center of heated debate now taking place on Capitol Hill.
Google News Search on the exact phrase,“Congressional Research Service,” and either of the terms,“Kerry-Boxer” or “Waxman-Markey”, during the past month- eight results surfaced.

Among the eight results, no major media outlets in the United States had mentioned the CRS report, two Canadian news outlets did mention it, and that one conservative publication in the U.S., National Review, covered it here:

http://planetgore.nationalreview.com/post/...

What did they miss? Two of the most-noteworthy items highlighted in the report produced by the nonpartisan research arm of Congress were as follows:

* The United States has the largest supply of energy resources on Earth — more than Russia or Saudi Arabia; and

* The United States has tapped into only 13 percent of these energy resources, with the other 87 percent still untouched.

For a more-detailed look at what the journalistic wannabes have missed, read a related post, United States Could Be Energy Independent If…:







As shown in the first chart , the United States’ 1,321 billion barrels of oil equivalent (BOE) tops number 2 Russia with 1,248 billion BOE, and number 3 Saudi Arabia with 543 billion BOE.

The second chart shows that the U.S. also holds the world’s largest supply of affordable coal.

So why isn’t the United States energy independent?
cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#27 Nov 5, 2009
calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
And at $0.12 per kw hr X 24 X 7 X 365 we get a payback in 2 years or so.
In what country do you think that that power is worth $0.12 per kwh??? It is really worth less than one-quarter of that.
cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#28 Nov 5, 2009
calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
I am shocked!
Owl Gore misquotes his own cited reference.
$300K for the turbine in question.
And at $0.12 per kw hr X 24 X 7 X 365 we get a payback in 2 years or so.
Let's check your math in a bit more detail.

1> $0.12/kwh is the retail price of power. Wholesale power is worth about $50/mwh on peak for 2010 (my forecast), which is $0.05/kwh. Fyi, I forecast power prices for a living, including Minnesota Hub. Off peak is worth, say $20. 60% or more of wind power is off peak, so the revenue you can expect per mwh is $32 max, per kwh that is $0.032.

2> You multiplied by both the number of days in a week AND the number of days in a year. How stupid can you get??? Did you even think before you hit the Post Comment button???

3> You have to allow 40% of revenue for operating costs. Any used electro-mechanical device situated 90 feet in the air in the Minnesota climate is going to require a lot of maintenance.

4> The capacity factor for a windmill sited anywhere in the twin cities metro will absolutely be under 25%. Buffalo Ridge is low 30s. What does that mean? A wind turbine will generate a fraction of its rated potential because the wind is not always blowing at optimal speeds. So, a 25% capacity factor means that over the course of a year, it will produce 25% of the nameplate rating. 35% is considered very good and 40% outstanding.

Let's tally up the REAL numbers here.
160kw x .25 capacity factor x 24 x 365 x $0.032/kwh x .6 for operating cost =
$6,729 net per year for energy. Windmills have no capacity value whatsoever. This does not include the value of the renewable energy credits. REC values have been gyrating wildly.

That is a 2.25% return on $300K or a forty-five year payback. Also, according to the article, the $300,000 was for the turbine alone. It did not include the installation costs and other materials.

Actually, when Anoka County made the decision, the numbers looked even worse than this. The power markets have rebounded in the past few weeks. No wonder they are unhappy.
Christy NE Mpls

Minneapolis, MN

#29 Nov 5, 2009
calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Thank you Al Queda operatives, Commander Owl Gore is proud of your efforts to insure continued dependence on Middle East oil.
Allah Ach Bar Owl
(Shoot guns in to the sky here)
Rockhead-

Owl Gore is the problem beacause we can't drill here in america for our abundance of oil and coal.

You want energy independence then drill baby drill.

Not restrict/block/litigate
cybear

Saint Paul, MN

#30 Nov 5, 2009
calvin wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't forget Owl is an Al Queda operative planted in the US to insure the continued dependence of the US on Middle East oil.
Allah Ach Bar Owl. insert gun fire here.
So much stupidity in one post....
Exactly how much Middle East oil is used to generate electricity in the US? About NONE. Oil generates 2-3% of our power, of which 45% is imported oil. We import less than a quarter of that from the Middle East.

Please tell us, how is building windmills going to affect OIL imports???
Tom VanPutten

Saint Paul, MN

#31 Nov 5, 2009
LMM wrote:
Yea! That plant was going to be HORRIBLE for multiple reasons. We should be giving jobs to those who are working on clean energy- coal is outdated and gives lung cancer!
Pfffffff...... It's 2009. Wake up.
Drill Baby Drill

Minneapolis, MN

#32 Nov 5, 2009
I just finished reading:
"The Deep Hot Biosphere : The Myth of Fossil Fuels" by Thomas Gold .
Remember back in the 70's that the media kept stating we'd be out of oil in the next 15 years? Kind of like the next coming ice age?
Well, Dr. Gold has worked and studied to prove that petroleum is NOT a "fossil fuel" in a limited supply wherever dinosaurs and plants were covered up and rotted into oil. I would recommend this book to anyone who wants to know the truth.
The reviews:
"There is much to be said about this important book. Gold exhibits the irreversible and universal genius that we recognize in Aristotle and Leonardo da Vinci. The versatility and range of knowledge exhibited is remarkable. The Deep Hot Biosphere is a highly interesting and important book; it should be required reading for every geology student." (David Deming, Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 17 (2), 2003)
"Thomas Gold is a physicist who is not afraid of controversy. His big new theory is that oil and natural gas are produced by geology and chemistry of the hot deep layers below the Earth's surface. The book is the best kind of science writing: contentious and passionate, with all the evidence there for you to weigh up." (New Scientist, August, 2001)
In the book:
It appears as if the Russians are making monkeys out of us westerners. They now have over 300 ultra deep oil wells producing oil from as far down as 40,000 feet. Way beyond any possibility of finding sludge from dead dinosaurs and old rotting cabbage patches. Russia is now the world's #1 oil producer handily surpassing Saudi Arabia. Speaking Of Saudi Arabia - known reserve estimates there have been increased yet again.
The skeptics continue to amuse and embarrass themselves as Viet Nam now joins the club of oil producing nations pumping from areas western "experts" proclaimed oil-free based on geology.
Eugene Island is an underwater mountain located about 80 miles off the coast of Louisiana in the Gulf of Mexico. It is refilling itself from deep fissures.
Jean Whelan, a geochemist and senior researcher with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute assigned to study the Eugene field. Becoming familiar with the phenomenon, she said " .... I believe there is a huge system of oil just migrating deep underground"
By every measure - known oil reserves are INCREASING despite vastly increased demand.

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